You Don't Know What Love Is - A Trap in The Maze

[Nadie]

Going after "love" - i.e. a romantic relationship, seems like one of the biggest traps in the maze that is life (see Leo's latest video).

How can I get over this childish idealism in regards to "love", romanticism, everything being OK as long as things are good between my partner and I, etc.?

How can I face "the Fear" (yeah, Fear with a capital F) and keep facing it for long enough to be able to sustain being single? Why am I in such strong denial about this being what I need? I guess The Fear (wherever you encounter it in your own maze) always comes with the biggest self-deceptions and denial.

I'm an introvert and ever since I was a child I have picked one person to focus all of my love, attention and time on. It seems like such a huge, blindingly obvious "ego distraction" and trap, yet it's so hard to get out of, especially now as I'm pushing 30 and have been living this way my whole life (I've had serious, long-term relationships since I was 13 years old - my first relationship was from then until I was almost 17).

It's an interesting trap, but a dangerously confining one - freeing in some ways, yet hugely distracting. Ha! Beware the traps that feel like freedom or seem to give you more of it. This whole life maze is a hard slog (to put it lightly), no getting around it.

Is this what "love addiction" is, perhaps? Maybe. I don't know if I'd qualify, because I'm not even 100% clear on my motives behind being this way. Sometimes I think it's because I'm overly sentimental/emotional/value relationship above all else, but it could just be because I'm stuck in a rut and don't trust myself to be able to take care of myself financially if I were out on my own.

I grew up in a working class/poor family that has a lot of issues around money. My brother now works 70+ hours a week and hasn't had a vacation in 8 years as his way of trying to escape the poverty/become financially independent. So it would make sense that my way of dealing with the situation is through the sense of financial/general "security" that long-term one-on-one 'romantic' relationships give me.

It's taking me forever to get brutally honest and clear with myself. To face The Fear. To trust myself. To really have faith.

It's like I don't even know what is real and true for me. I have tried moving out and being single (though I doubt it counts as 'single' if it lasts about a day) and have changed situations many times (even going as far as moving across the world, living in a different, totally unknown culture and language, etc. more than once) only to find myself stuck back again in the same old maze, same old trap, same denial wrapped up in romantic ideals. Whenever I finally, rarely do take a leap of faith, I don't follow it all the way through. I start doubting and second-guessing myself until I convince myself I have made a mistake and would be better off turning back.

I don't know what true love would feel like. I feel deeply self-deceived/deceiving and like my heart and throat chakras are closed. I value authenticity and radical honesty yet cannot genuinely align with these things, which in turn leads to a lack of integrity and self-esteem.

Anyway, I'm going to get Leo's Life Purpose Course today. I hope that getting in touch with my LP will be a map out of the enticingly comfortable (yet increasingly unhelpful and maddening) maze that is long-term romantic relationships.

Anyone able to relate? I guess I'm reaching out for friendship as a compass, here, guys.

[Prabhaker]

25 minutes ago, Nadie said:

Going after "love" - i.e. a romantic relationship, seems like one of the biggest traps in the maze that is life

Your love is not really love. It is jealousy, possessiveness, hatred, anger, violence; it is a thousand and one things except love. 

[Truth]

@Nadie True love is unconditional love. Your "child idealism of love" is based on conditional love --> "as long as everything with my partner is okay -->  everything is okay, and if everything is not okay --> then everything is NOT okay". This is fine for creating balance in your relationship, but when you're using it to set conditions on your own personal happiness you're gonna have problems.

I think it would be best for you to stop looking for external solutions like moving away or being single and start turning inward. You can go anywhere you want but your problems will always come with you because they’re always working intangibly on the inside.

A good place to start would be to understand/ contemplate what unconditional love is vs conditional love. Understand how you set conditions for your finances, your love, your partner, your freedom, your self-trust, your integrity etc. and notice how you can’t have “true love” or even happiness without having these external conditions first.

Then once you understand all this then you can start to tap into True Love and begin to change your old motives into more high quality ones (a bit of a rough process but it’s for the better) and start giving yourself unconditional love and happiness while knowing everything externally is going to work out just fine and start tapping into true Faith with a capital F meaning → being happy while at the same time knowing everything externally is going to work out.

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Truth

[RichardY]

@Nadie

Seems a pretty complex topic, if it were simple, I'm sure there'd be no total war. Anyway had a few thoughts.

I think drawing a distinction between Aesthetics, Taste & Values is important. Then whether you think as love as being "internal" or "externalise" the emotion. So listening to some of sadguru on Youtube, he puts a lot of focus on internal emotional management as being sane "isn't it?"
 

Three Types of Love

1) Classical Romanticism So would be something like. "Love is our response to virtue, if we are virtuous." Problem, what if you're not virtuous ? As things could be.

2) Byronic Romanticism - Byronic love, idiosyncratic. Not as things are, but as things should be. Perhaps an unholy form of love. Where I'm at.

3) Infinite gooey Love!

In reality, I think there is kind of a mixture.

Virtues according to David Hume artificial: justice, keeping promises, allegiance, and chastity.  natural: benevolence, meekness, charity, and generosity. 

Love addiction.  The origin of the term for addiction means debt slave in Latin.

Finance - A means to an end. Only as good as what you do with. Have to decide on things like children lifestyle etc and be forward.

Friendship - Need to be based on values, and if you're enslaved you can't really be a friend, thinking of some stuff I read by Aristotle.

 

On 27/08/2018 at 2:11 PM, Prabhaker said:

Your love is not really love. It is jealousy, possessiveness, hatred, anger, violence; it is a thousand and one things except love. 

 

 

 

[Nadie]

@Prabhaker I had already assumed it wasn't love, that I'm far from love, saying my heart chakra seems to be closed, etc. throughout the post and even in the title. Any suggestions on how to feel/be love again would be greatly appreciated.

[Nadie]

@Truth thanks heaps for your reply. I resonate with your words here and in other posts. I'll take your suggestion of contemplating what unconditional vs conditional love is. My instinct already tells me that no real love is at all conditional.

Faith with a capital F! How can I get in touch with that - any suggestions? I try to be in touch with it, i like to think i have faith, but that isn't what shows in my actions.

[brugluiz]

6 minutes ago, Nadie said:

@Prabhaker I had already assumed it wasn't love, that I'm far from love, saying my heart chakra seems to be closed, etc. throughout the post and even in the title. Any suggestions on how to feel/be love again would be greatly appreciated.

Here in Brazil I did a kind of a reiki with slight touches in certain points of the body. It made me recall some memories. But the therapist also stimulated my heart through massage. It was funny because I started to cry during the session. It helped me to feel more compassion for my parents and people who bullied me during my childhood. Maybe you can find a similar approach.

[Nahm]

On 8/27/2018 at 8:43 AM, Nadie said:

Going after "love" - i.e. a romantic relationship, seems like one of the biggest traps in the maze that is life (see Leo's latest video).

You are love, the maze is love. So looking for love is a big trap indeed. But how can you know this?

How can I get over this childish idealism in regards to "love", romanticism, everything being OK as long as things are good between my partner and I, etc.?

Those are conditions. You’re unknowingly choosing to live conditionally, or “asleep”. Love is infinite, experienced in the unconditioned now. “Ok, but how do I live without conditions, in this now, and feel this infinite love?”.

How can I face "the Fear" (yeah, Fear with a capital F) and keep facing it for long enough to be able to sustain being single?

You feel you need to “face” something, because your conditional living is living with anxiety, low self esteem, and indecision. The fear is made up, and so is the identity that you are it. You don’t need to face, you need to become aware, or to realize, you are already the awareness. 

Why am I in such strong denial about this being what I need?

Because you have identified with the fear and have been living scraps of what is left over after the filters of conditions. You don’t yet realize you are awareness, which has latched onto, and identified with, a brain & body, and thoughts which insert “me” as, the brain & body. 

I guess The Fear (wherever you encounter it in your own maze) always comes with the biggest self-deceptions and denial.

Fear doesn’t exist, so it does not “come with” anything. You are creating it, over and over again, in the now.  Your self deception and denial, produce the fear, the fear is not a separate thing or entity, it also, is you. Your self deception is created simply by saying “I am ________”. You’ve been inserting “afraid of”  in that blank, and perpetuating the denial by not investigating, by not inquiring “Is that my direct experience, or is that a belief?” 

I'm an introvert and ever since I was a child I have picked one person to focus all of my love, attention and time on.

That person should be you. Then  you have love to give. Otherwise, you are in a maddening limbo of seeking love from others. You could be relishing in the sweet love, by giving it unconditionally. 

It seems like such a huge, blindingly obvious "ego distraction" and trap, yet it's so hard to get out of, especially now as I'm pushing 30 and have been living this way my whole life (I've had serious, long-term relationships since I was 13 years old - my first relationship was from then until I was almost 17).

It is obvious, continue to let it be obvious. You had some experiences, you identified with the fear by thoughts like “I, am, afraid of _____”. You identified yourself, as afraid of X, Y, and Z. Because awareness is infinite, you can not actually “break a piece off” (fragmentation) - so, awareness (You) creates a blind spot, a “sector” which there is no awareness of. In this way, you perpetuate (by not looking at your own thinking) that blind spot, that a priori “ I “. (You keep saying “ I “... this and that, but you keep looking at the content, the this and that, instead, look at that “ I “. Hone in on it, go to it, describe it, try to identify it. 

It's an interesting trap, but a dangerously confining one - freeing in some ways, yet hugely distracting. Ha! Beware the traps that feel like freedom or seem to give you more of it. This whole life maze is a hard slog (to put it lightly), no getting around it.

There is no trap, no maze, not a single distinction, between you, and God (Infinite Love) - except for the distinctions thought “creates”, and you, awareness, BELIEVES. 

Is this what "love addiction" is, perhaps? Maybe. I don't know if I'd qualify, because I'm not even 100% clear on my motives behind being this way.

There is only one motive in life, to know thy Self, Love, and to share thy self, Love. 

Sometimes I think it's because I'm overly sentimental/emotional/value relationship above all else, but it could just be because I'm stuck in a rut and don't trust myself to be able to take care of myself financially if I were out on my own.

You fear being alone, becuase of what you think it is. 

Have you actually directly experienced being alone? Or are you experiencing thoughts about being alone?

Have you lived alone and supported yourself, financially & emotionally? Or do you have thoughts about it?

I grew up in a working class/poor family that has a lot of issues around money.

Me too. Not now. 

My brother now works 70+ hours a week and hasn't had a vacation in 8 years as his way of trying to escape the poverty/become financially independent.

Mine too. 

So it would make sense that my way of dealing with the situation is through the sense of financial/general "security" that long-term one-on-one 'romantic' relationships give me.

You’re right on there. That is far from “dealing” with the situation. That is the opposite. That is avoidance. In avoiding, you create a blind spot of awareness, awareness is Truth. If you allowed the Truth to shine on this situation, it would be impossible to keep believing you’re dealing with it, you’d begin to see you are avoiding it - simultaneously, you’d be in-fragmenting awareness, the change in experience, is being in the Now, synonymous with...    Being.      Love.      Now.    (All words, pointing at infinity, You)

It's taking me forever to get brutally honest and clear with myself. To face The Fear. To trust myself. To really have faith.

Simplify it.  Pen & paper. 2 columns: Belief, Direct Experience.

Self inquire, and write what arises in one column or the other.

If the fear is not COMPLETELY resolved in ONE sitting - then you are being dishonest (not acknowledging what is). If you can not be honest with yourself, then attend to yourself, care for yourself: mediation, a mani & pedi, a massage, read a book in a hammock, take a nature walk - whatever - just care for yourself, elevate your vibration, and do that practice again. Be determine. NOW, is when you will do this work. Not tomorrow.

It's like I don't even know what is real and true for me.

Yeah. Welcome to the club. You are not real and true, you are the creator of real and true. Don’t be so busy thinking about what is real and true, that you wasted time in which you could have been creating the life of your dream. 

I have tried moving out and being single (though I doubt it counts as 'single' if it lasts about a day)

Quitter. Wimp. Weak. No determination. Spineless. - - - Is that what you are? No, those are just thoughts. You don’t know what you are, and that’s perfect, that’s what is. 

and have changed situations many times (even going as far as moving across the world, living in a different, totally unknown culture and language, etc. more than once) only to find myself stuck back again in the same old maze, same old trap, same denial wrapped up in romantic ideals.

You brought your thought loop with you: Experience > Sensation of fear > Identified with fear > repeating thought over and over “I am afraid” > fragmented awareness > eye’s are seeing now, identifying with thought has you still stuck in the past. Most of your awareness is now, the fragmented part, the made up “ I “ which is “afraid”, is blinded, no awareness there, so no expereince of the entirety of Now/ Being / Infinite.

You (awareness/infinite) used thoughts of fear, to convince yourself (awareness/infinite) that you are finite, and separate from all that is experienced. You are not separate from a damn thing. Investigate - don’t believe or not believe me - that would just be another thought, and would perpetuate your fear. 

Whenever I finally, rarely do take a leap of faith, I don't follow it all the way through. I start doubting and second-guessing myself until I convince myself I have made a mistake and would be better off turning back.

You’re free to live your life lazily, not inquiring into anything. There’s nothing wrong with that. Lots of people get by fairly well on looks, charm, cleverness, sweetness, etc. You can even deny it is your thinking causing you the anxiety, by ignoring the thought loop, and adopting another belief, “faith”.

How about having faith in yourself? Faith that you can sit down with a simple pen & paper, today, and inquire straight into and through the fear?

You are infinite. You can do what you think can believe you can do. 

You are so infinite, you can create something finite, which has forgotten it is infinite. Impressive!

I don't know what true love would feel like.

It’s Nothing. 

Not life, not thoughts, not beliefs - Nothing. But before you go and do the same thing you’ve been doing - instead - pen & paper. Put nothing in one category: directly experienced, or, just thoughts / a belief.  

I feel deeply self-deceived/deceiving and like my heart and throat chakras are closed. I value authenticity and radical honesty yet cannot genuinely align with these things, which in turn leads to a lack of integrity and self-esteem.

When we think we know what we are, we are self deceiving. An eternal cosmic joke. 

SImply sit and relax, put your attention to your throat chakra; imagine & visualize the most beautiful healing blue light, swirling and purifying the throat chakra, and say with the might and affirmation of your authentic infinitude (say it like you fucking mean it sister):

”Oh Shit. I have no fucking idea, what I am”.     -Let that Truth out. 

“I’ve been saying I am afraid, I am this, I am that, because the truth is, MY TRUTH, RIGHT NOW, IS, I have no fucking idea what I am”.

“Total. Fucking. Mystery.”  “Wow. Who would of guessed that?” “No idea at all”.

Feel the throat chakra LOVING this honesty. Now, you are Being honest. Now you can speak truth, even if that truth, now, is I don’t know. The important point here, is you are returning to your true infinite nature: Being/Love/Truth/Now.  

 

Sit and relax, breathing deeply, and slowly, into your stomach. Allow every muscle all the way around your waistline to relax, and fully expand with the breath, feel gravity relaxing every inch of your body, head to toe, sink. 

Now bring your heart chakra into awareness. Imagine & visualize, a loving glowing green light, swirling gently yet powerfully around your heart chakra, releasing resistance, purifying, healing. Feel the healing, and say:

“I am love”. 

 

Anyway, I'm going to get Leo's Life Purpose Course today. I hope that getting in touch with my LP will be a map out of the enticingly comfortable (yet increasingly unhelpful and maddening) maze that is long-term romantic relationships.

Anyone able to relate? I guess I'm reaching out for friendship as a compass, here, guys.

Every single human on earth relates. You got a compass ‘inside’ you, only points to truth. The variable, is listening to it. 

 

Thanks for posting the question / inquiry. ?? It was fun.❤️

 

[eleveneleven]

Hey, Nadie, I can relate. (Though from a more male perspective, I suppose.)

When I was in my teens, because I was so nerdy and awkward, finding a normal relationship eluded me quite a bit. So much so, that when I finally got into a serious relationship a few years later, I clinged to it very hard initially and put the very idea of romantic love on a pedestal without realizing. I felt like the relationship validated and completed me, though I would have never admitted that to myself at the time.

Thankfully, the person was very compatible with me, and it evolved into a very intense and beautiful relationship for many years. We both matured through it.

The real test was this: Eventually, even though the relationship was good (and we both wished to remain in it if we could), I was called to let it go. In order for both of us to grow, it eventually became obvious that we would have to let go of the relationship. In other words, something more important than the relationship--unconditional love for ourselves and each other--challenged the relationship itself and we needed to break up.

I think that was the final external manifestation of letting go of that ingrained idea that I needed a relationship to complete my life: To be faced with a great relationship that I cultivated over many years, and to obediently say, "All right, it's time to end this," when my path dictated that. Sometimes that's what it takes: Acknowledging that there's something more important than the idea of a relationship, and prioritizing your relationship to life itself over any specific person.

[Thanatos13]

On 8/27/2018 at 1:29 PM, Truth said:

@Nadie True love is unconditional love. Your "child idealism of love" is based on conditional love --> "as long as everything with my partner is okay -->  everything is okay, and if everything is not okay --> then everything is NOT okay". This is fine for creating balance in your relationship, but when you're using it to set conditions on your own personal happiness you're gonna have problems.

I think it would be best for you to stop looking for external solutions like moving away or being single and start turning inward. You can go anywhere you want but your problems will always come with you because they’re always working intangibly on the inside.

A good place to start would be to understand/ contemplate what unconditional love is vs conditional love. Understand how you set conditions for your finances, your love, your partner, your freedom, your self-trust, your integrity etc. and notice how you can’t have “true love” or even happiness without having these external conditions first.

Then once you understand all this then you can start to tap into True Love and begin to change your old motives into more high quality ones (a bit of a rough process but it’s for the better) and start giving yourself unconditional love and happiness while knowing everything externally is going to work out just fine and start tapping into true Faith with a capital F meaning → being happy while at the same time knowing everything externally is going to work out.

 

There is no such thing as unconditional love or love for that matter. Both are just an illusion.

Not to mention there is no “everything is going to work out” there is just a set of events that play out. But even if I humored that, you cannot know that everything will work out. That’s just hubris. It’s more accurate to say that you will be fine with whatever happens.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Thanatos13

[Thanatos13]

On 9/5/2018 at 9:21 AM, Nahm said:

 

You are not love and you are not infinite. These are merely comforts to cope with existence.

[Nahm]

@Thanatos13 Then you know you are talking to yourself? That “ I “, am your maya?

[Nahm]

13 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

There is no such thing as unconditional love or love for that matter. Both are just an illusion.

Not to mention there is no “everything is going to work out” there is just a set of events that play out. But even if I humored that, you cannot know that everything will work out. That’s just hubris. It’s more accurate to say that you will be fine with whatever happens.

There is only you. No matter what you do, even in death, you arrive where you were, are now, only you. How does everything not work out? What is everything, but you?

[eleveneleven]

8 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

There is no such thing as unconditional love or love for that matter. Both are just an illusion.

Not to mention there is no “everything is going to work out” there is just a set of events that play out. But even if I humored that, you cannot know that everything will work out. That’s just hubris. It’s more accurate to say that you will be fine with whatever happens.

By that standard, there's no such thing as the words you're using, either, and everything you just said is conceptual, an illusion, just as illusory as the concept of unconditional love.

But it sounds silly to say, "Oh, your illusion is more illusory than the one I'm using to pooh-pooh it." It's all too easy to dismiss something as an "illusion" because it's not your preferred flavor of illusion. ("You're pointing to reality with the wrong finger!")

All concepts (and language) are ultimately illusions, especially if we take them too literally, BUT these concepts can be useful as tools. They are metaphors that help us navigate the mind, so from that standpoint, there's nothing wrong with talking about the dichotomy of unconditional love vs conditional love, as long as we realize that these are just concepts that point to something, and that it will be inexact.

Personally, I have had direct experience of what I might call "unconditional love," as well as "conditional love," so it does mean something specific to me. Language is vague, though, so we can only more or less hope that we know what other people are talking about when they say this.

[Thanatos13]

27 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Thanatos13 Then you know you are talking to yourself? That “ I “, am your maya?

If you want to believe that. 

22 minutes ago, Nahm said:

There is only you. No matter what you do, even in death, you arrive where you were, are now, only you. How does everything not work out? What is everything, but you?

Because you are not everything. You never really arrive, for you are always a little bit behind. I can understand why mystics in the past believe such things, but when you feel what they feel you have to wonder if they didn’t just make some story to explain things. Everything does not work out (it’s really just events that happen).

18 minutes ago, eleveneleven said:

By that standard, there's no such thing as the words you're using, either, and everything you just said is conceptual, an illusion, just as illusory as the concept of unconditional love.

But it sounds silly to say, "Oh, your illusion is more illusory than the one I'm using to pooh-pooh it." It's all too easy to dismiss something as an "illusion" because it's not your preferred flavor of illusion. ("You're pointing to reality with the wrong finger!")

All concepts (and language) are ultimately illusions, especially if we take them too literally, BUT these concepts can be useful as tools. They are metaphors that help us navigate the mind, so from that standpoint, there's nothing wrong with talking about the dichotomy of unconditional love vs conditional love, as long as we realize that these are just concepts that point to something, and that it will be inexact.

Personally, I have had direct experience of what I might call "unconditional love," as well as "conditional love," so it does mean something specific to me. Language is vague, though, so we can only more or less hope that we know what other people are talking about when they say this.

Firstly, no it doesn’t.

“Direct experience” might as well be because I say so, yet it doesn’t prove anything.

You seem to think you can escape concepts, which seems like a mistake to me. They need not be words, language, or tools. It would also be incorrect to call concepts illusions.

The last mistake is hoping people understand what you feel. Yet emotions cannot be described. Anger cannot be described since it would require me to be you. The funny thing about all this is that ultimately you can’t be sure you have experienced what others have. You take it on faith, like most claims here. 

But I guess the primary mistake is assuming “direct experience” can be trusted. 

[Nahm]

21 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

If you want to believe that. Nonduality gets referred to as Truth, because beliefs don’t hold up to it, they must go.

Nonduality is not a thought about nonduality, nor a belief about, it’s you, which thinks, and believes. Is someone else, or something else thinking and believing for you? Who / what is this someone else? That might be a priori, only you could do that inquiry.

Because you are not everything. How so? Would you mind sharing your direct experience that Nahm is not everything? Or your experience that you are not everything? You never really arrive Agreed. Where? When? I see that., for you are always a little bit behind. What is it which you are behind? I can understand why mystics in the past believe such things,  but when you feel what they feel you have to wonder if they didn’t just make some story to explain things. What story are you talking about? Everything does not work out (it’s really just events that happen). You would have to discover this alone. What anyone says, amounts to pointers. What someone experiences, and shares, only serves as something you also could inquire or look into, of course, you don’t need to either.

 

Firstly, no it doesn’t.

“Direct experience” might as well be because I say so, yet it doesn’t prove anything.

Are you assuming I am trying to prove something to you? I already am you, if you say this is not true, I have no qualms. If you want to believe you are separate from everything else, you can. 

You seem to think you can escape concepts, which seems like a mistake to me. Concepts can open a mind, but can also imprison it. They need not be words, language, or tools. It would also be incorrect to call concepts illusions. Concepts are illusions. Thought perpetuates the illusion. 

The last mistake is hoping people understand what you feel. Who would understand what you feel? No one. Same here.  Yet emotions cannot be described. Sure they can. Sensations are easy to describe. Rupert Spira does an excellent job of this. Anger cannot be described since it would require me to be you. The description doesn’t require communion. The funny thing about all this is that ultimately you can’t be sure you have experienced what others have. Agreed. You take it on faith, like most claims here. What do you think I “take on faith?” 

But I guess the primary mistake is assuming “direct experience” can be trusted. What use is trust when you have direct experience?

 

[RichardY]

 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, eleveneleven said:

You're pointing to reality with the wrong finger

Very funny.

[Nahm]

@Thanatos13 Just noticed your reply was split between me and @eleveneleven. Sorry for the confusion. 

[eleveneleven]

 

2 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

Firstly, no it doesn’t.

“Direct experience” might as well be because I say so, yet it doesn’t prove anything.

You seem to think you can escape concepts, which seems like a mistake to me. They need not be words, language, or tools. It would also be incorrect to call concepts illusions.

The last mistake is hoping people understand what you feel. Yet emotions cannot be described. Anger cannot be described since it would require me to be you. The funny thing about all this is that ultimately you can’t be sure you have experienced what others have. You take it on faith, like most claims here. 

But I guess the primary mistake is assuming “direct experience” can be trusted. 

You don't get it. Actually, we agree. You've repeated exactly what I said in different words. In a weird way, this merely proves the point that concepts are just vague approximations of reality, if I'm trying to tell you, "Yes," but you hear "No."

I'm not saying direct experience means that the concept of "unconditional love" is some legitimate idea that means some universal thing that can be universally trusted. The opposite. It can't be "trusted." I'm saying that you're not taking it far enough, actually: It's not just unconditional love that is a BS idea, it's that every idea is a BS idea. We don't have to get picky about it.

Yes, direct experience is something personal, which is why it doesn't "prove" anything from that third-person, objective perspective. That's exactly what I'm saying: I use words and concepts to try to describe that experience, and simply hope that other people have had similar enough experiences to know what I'm talking about. But that goes for ANY experience of anything in this universe; no words I could ever say could fully describe what I experience, even when it comes to mundane things. Whether it's unconditional love or eating a sandwich, I could never tell you how I really experience it.

But the direct experience (of anything) still occurs privately, no matter what I happen to call it or how I slice it up with concepts. The concepts are secondary. You can slice up reality all you want and put it in different boxes of different flavors, but they are just words and concepts. THAT is the illusion. The only thing I can really say is that right at this moment, I'm experiencing something. What I call it doesn't matter, but I can try to give it a name for practical reasons.

There is no need to "escape" concepts. There is nothing there to escape. Concepts are just tools of the mind that point vaguely towards things in direct experience. They are like applications that run on top of the OS of the mind and help us communicate and mentally organize the objects we perceive--but like software, there is an inherent meaninglessness in it. The 1's and 0's only have meaning because we assign this to them. Inherently, they are nothing.

Edited September 9, 2018 by eleveneleven