I like some Leo's ideas, but I still feel he's shady

[brugluiz]

Please, I hope people don't misinterpret it as an attack. I'm only describing what I'm feeling. After watching many Leo's videos, I've noticed that I have a slight discomfort when I do it. It's kind like a lonely vibe.

Tons of Leo's ideas are important like the PUA rant, the whole spiral dynamics series, ideology, raising rockstar kids, meditation videos, etc, but I still feel this lonely vibe that comes from these videos.

I would describe the videos this way: they lack happiness.

Personal development also seems to be egotistical. It's not that you shouldn't work on yourself, but if you reach a point where you don't read even a fiction book anymore you're doomed to sadness. It's not because you're avoiding taking action, but because a fiction book connects us with other people. I'm not sure of that, but I think it is simple psychology: connect yourself with things you like in order to connect with people (of course you can have strong bonds with other people by other ways).

Being enlightened may be awesome, but it doesn't make you different from other people. The happiest moments I had in my life I was sharing with other people, helping them, and having fun with them.

I can't feel it coming from Leo's videos and materials. They seem not to be human.

Sorry if my post seems to be negative. It was not my intention. Just what I'm feeling.

[Key Elements]

@brugluiz hey, no worries, we get what you're saying. No one can agree with everything that someone says. It just doesn't work that way. It's also not easy to understand someone fully. You may think he means it one way, but in reality, he means it in another way.

Maybe if you like fiction books a lot, you could do something like incorporate that into your life purpose, like write fiction in profound ways. Allow others to think about what you wrote deeply. A life purpose is deep. Anything you enjoy could be incorporated into it in some way. 

[brugluiz]

19 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

@brugluiz hey, no worries, we get what you're saying. No one can agree with everything that someone says. It just doesn't work that way. It's also not easy to understand someone fully. You may think he means it one way, but in reality, he means it in another way.

Maybe if you like fiction books a lot, you could do something like incorporate that into your life purpose, like write fiction in profound ways. Allow others to think about what you wrote deeply. A life purpose is deep. Anything you enjoy could be incorporated into it in some way. 

Thank you for your answer.

I like reading fiction books because they inspire me. As an artist (I love drawing), I have the need to become inspired by a fiction book for example. It can also be a movie, a theater piece, a song or a poem (I still want to study Joseph Campbell's materials in order to even become more inspired). Fiction books and romance let me fantasize and it's very positive if I want to create a drawing or a painting from my imagination. I read an article that says fiction books help you to have empathy for other people because you put yourself in the skin of the character.

[Key Elements]

@brugluiz You're welcome. Did you check out the art thread?

[Pallero]

@brugluiz Have you watched Leo’s video “What is Art?”?

But yeah, I agree with you. Leo’s style that he chose for his videos is quite specific and you rarely see him being sensitive, loving or soft. He doesn’t address many soft topics either. He likes talking about science, the society and stuff like that. And even if he does talk about something soft, he does it in a hard way.

That’s why I watch Teal Swan and Lisa Cairns. 

[Ayilton]

 

6 hours ago, brugluiz said:

Please, I hope people don't misinterpret it as an attack. I'm only describing what I'm feeling. After watching many Leo's videos, I've noticed that I have a slight discomfort when I do it. It's kind like a lonely vibe.

Tons of Leo's ideas are important like the PUA rant, the whole spiral dynamics series, ideology, raising rockstar kids, meditation videos, etc, but I still feel this lonely vibe that comes from these videos.

I would describe the videos this way: they lack happiness.

Personal development also seems to be egotistical. It's not that you shouldn't work on yourself, but if you reach a point where you don't read even a fiction book anymore you're doomed to sadness. It's not because you're avoiding taking action, but because a fiction book connects us with other people. I'm not sure of that, but I think it is simple psychology: connect yourself with things you like in order to connect with people (of course you can have strong bonds with other people by other ways).

Being enlightened may be awesome, but it doesn't make you different from other people. The happiest moments I had in my life I was sharing with other people, helping them, and having fun with them.

I can't feel it coming from Leo's videos and materials. They seem not to be human.

Sorry if my post seems to be negative. It was not my intention. Just what I'm feeling.

Sometimes I wonder if this Actualization.org hasn't turned me into a monster!  

I like used to be more loving and chill before  ! Wanting a life purpose can make us blind. It's a complicated issue. 

Doing Self help is extremely good but it lacks heart. I get this lonely  vibe too. 

But anyway no one is perfect,  Leo is doing his best but still that human interaction is key to life. Without that we become robots.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ayilton
Bla

[mohdanas]

I understand this so much. 
When you go your own way, sometimes you have to abandon your loved ones. 

I don't personally take anything super seriously anymore, life purpose, enlightenment, personal development, etc yet at the same time I work on all of them but I don't power them so much that I feel like I have to rush home to do a x task and avoid talking to a neighbor that said hello to me. 

I have began to be deeply happy, accepting everything for what it is, feeling the magic of live, and slowly and steadily working on life purpose and enlightenment.  

 

[Gorlov]

I have the same experience. I became so focused on 'personal development' that I ended up by myself reading, taking notes and meditating most days, sometimes going off into the forest to meditate by myself. I took LSD experimentally. I decided that I was going to destroy my ego and try to become enlightened and eradicate my sense of self. 

Here's what happened. 

I ended up distant from my mum and sister, who were pissed at me because every time they wanted me to snuggle up with them and watch a movie I told them that movies were just distractions and there were more important things I had to do (like contemplate by myself). 

I ended up with an anxiety disorder from LSD, and though I actually DID dissolve my sense of self, let me tell you that having no sense of self is TERRIFYING. It got to the point where I was looking at a picture of myself and having a panic attack because there was no connection there to me at all. LSD was very intense and screwed up my life with anxiety for about a year. I did have some useful insights from it, but in the broader sense of things, it was actually quite traumatic. 

This is just my experience, but I have my own way of doing self-help now. I focus on goal-setting, simple and achievable things such as getting amazing at guitar or better socially. I've laid down the very intense spiritual stuff, because trying to become enlightened, quite frankly, screwed up my life for a while and made me distant from people. It was only coming back to these people afterwards that I realised what I'd lost - friendships, a win-win social circle, supportive and loving relationships. Meditating by myself had not given me any bigger insights than that being all alone and trying to elevate yourself spiritually is bloody lonely. Interestingly, it didn't show me what I could become - it actually made me value what I already had. 

So here's my two cents: I'm an advocate of practical self-help that creates results you can see and touch. When you wake up in the morning next to someone amazing with a big smile on your face, that was good self help. When you drink a delicious smoothie that leaves you feeling energised the rest of the day, that was good self-help. When you and your friends go on a spontaneous trip into a national park and survive and laugh and high-five about it afterwards, that was good self-help. But there's no need to be an isolated, self-absorbed, wannabe prophet. Structures exist for a reason, and trying to destroy everything that makes you you, all of your understanding of the world, and everything that connects you to society so that you can 'escape the maze' is just that - destructive. 

 

[Torkys]

8 hours ago, brugluiz said:

Personal development also seems to be egotistical

Because it is.

8 hours ago, brugluiz said:

It's not that you shouldn't work on yourself, but if you reach a point where you don't read even a fiction book anymore you're doomed to sadness.

Alot of people don't understand how relative development is. No activity should be put on a pedestal as the only/superior way to develop yourself.

IMHO All personal development boils down to how much you can flow with life unconditionally. You change yourself to make yourself flow with your life more easily and no one should/can limit the things you can do to make this happen.

8 hours ago, brugluiz said:

Being enlightened may be awesome, but it doesn't make you different from other people. The happiest moments I had in my life I was sharing with other people, helping them, and having fun with them.

Enlightenment allows you to feel Joy more unconditionally. You may actually prefer to be alone after a certain point on your journey of dissolving your ego.

8 hours ago, brugluiz said:

Sorry if my post seems to be negative. It was not my intention. Just what I'm feeling

We get ya. Thanks for expressing your honest opinion!

[PsiloPutty]

@brugluiz   I see a lot of a projecting in your post. What you've described are your internal reactions, which are all based on your past experiences and thoughts. If I were inclined to agree with you on the overall sadness vibe of Leo's videos, that feeling would probably stem internally from me knowing that what he's saying is true, but doubting that I'll ever employ the technique/wisdom that he's talking about. So, instead of me thinking that his videos themselves are inherently sad, I'd want to get out my shovel and start digging in my psyche to discover why a benign self-help video is bringing that particular emotion into my awareness. 

Leo's a serious guy when it comes to this material. If he were bubbly and campy about it all, his videos would lack intensity. I'd look into why they evoke sadness in you.

[Nahm]

Wow. Lot of love Leo is helping us to real-ize. 

[brugluiz]

6 hours ago, Key Elements said:

@brugluiz You're welcome. Did you check out the art thread?

Just checked it. People share some beautiful art. It's awesome!

5 hours ago, Pallero said:

@brugluiz Have you watched Leo’s video “What is Art?”?

But yeah, I agree with you. Leo’s style that he chose for his videos is quite specific and you rarely see him being sensitive, loving or soft. He doesn’t address many soft topics either. He likes talking about science, the society and stuff like that. And even if he does talk about something soft, he does it in a hard way.

That’s why I watch Teal Swan and Lisa Cairns. 

I just watched 20 minutes of his video and felt that lonely vibe again. He uses words like: "to understand such thing, you need to have mystical experiences" or "to grasp the meaning of this, you have to work on your consciousness." His statements resonate like that: people who do this are more conscious, people who don't do this, are not. I have the impression it separates him from other people.

Even if you do not meditate, even if you do not take psychedelics, even if you didn't have mystical experiences, even if you did not grasp the meaning of reality, your opinion has a very important value for any being. You don't need to follow anything in order to be happy. You don't even need to meditate.

Sometimes I watch Teal Swan videos. Never heard about Lisa Cairns though.

3 hours ago, Ayilton said:

 

Sometimes I wonder if this Actualization.org hasn't turned me into a monster!  

I like used to be more loving and chill before  ! Wanting a life purpose can make us blind. It's a complicated issue. 

Doing Self help is extremely good but it lacks heart. I get this lonely  vibe too. 

But anyway no one is perfect,  Leo is doing his best but still that human interaction is key to life. Without that we become robots.

Yep. Human interaction is what makes us human. I remember moments I was truly happy in life. I did hard work, really commited myself and also helped a lot of prople for free. But I had lack of emotional coping experience, so I wasn't able to make that happiness lasts forever, but it still lasted for a long period of time.

3 hours ago, Feel Good said:

@brugluiz

Thanks for raising this concern.

My intuition tells me that Leo has cut himself off from the outside world and that kind of thing can show up in study related areas.

This work should be balanced with a life / meditation / practical application.

I would love for Leo to shoot a video of a day in the life of Leo Gura so we can see how his personal development is being applied in his life. 

You're welcome :). That's what my intuition tells me as well.

2 hours ago, Caterpillar said:

When someone tells you to be selfless or to kill yourself alarm bells should go off in your mind.

Did Leo tell someone to kill him/herself?

1 hour ago, mohdanas said:

I understand this so much. 
When you go your own way, sometimes you have to abandon your loved ones. 

I don't personally take anything super seriously anymore, life purpose, enlightenment, personal development, etc yet at the same time I work on all of them but I don't power them so much that I feel like I have to rush home to do a x task and avoid talking to a neighbor that said hello to me. 

I have began to be deeply happy, accepting everything for what it is, feeling the magic of live, and slowly and steadily working on life purpose and enlightenment.  

 

It's great! I hope things keep working for you.

1 hour ago, Torkys said:

Because it is.

Alot of people don't understand how relative development is. No activity should be put on a pedestal as the only/superior way to develop yourself.

IMHO All personal development boils down to how much you can flow with life unconditionally. You change yourself to make yourself flow with your life more easily and no one should/can limit the things you can do to make this happen.

Enlightenment allows you to feel Joy more unconditionally. You may actually prefer to be alone after a certain point on your journey of dissolving your ego.

We get ya. Thanks for expressing your honest opinion!

You're welcome

14 minutes ago, PsiloPutty said:

@brugluiz   I see a lot of a projecting in your post. What you've described are your internal reactions, which are all based on your past experiences and thoughts. If I were inclined to agree with you on the overall sadness vibe of Leo's videos, that feeling would probably stem internally from me knowing that what he's saying is true, but doubting that I'll ever employ the technique/wisdom that he's talking about. So, instead of me thinking that his videos themselves are inherently sad, I'd want to get out my shovel and start digging in my psyche to discover why a benign self-help video is bringing that particular emotion into my awareness. 

Leo's a serious guy when it comes to this material. If he were bubbly and campy about it all, his videos would lack intensity. I'd look into why they evoke sadness in you.

What I described are my feelings. They are not just based on my past experiences, but also on what I experience in the present moment.

Sometimes the videos evoke sadness because it seems Leo is sad and lonely.

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Wow. Lot of love Leo is helping us to real-ize. 

Sorry, @Nahm, I didn't get it.

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Ayilton said:

human interaction is key to life

That’s so deep man. 

❤️

[Rilles]

I think he’s pretty happy, I really vibe with him lol. Perhaps you connect to other teachers better. 

[Recursoinominado]

I have this "problem" too. Initially, i used self-help in a stage orange way, to improve productivity, social skills, learn pick up, better career. Since i stumbled upon spirituality, enlightenment, nature of reality, all other things seem a waste of time. I kind of isolated myself and see no point in going out drinking or partying or stuff like this. One time i noticed that i with my grandmother, reading a book about love while NOT being fully with her, this was kind of a wake-up call.

[SgtPepper]

I agree with others. I think Leo is just very serious about this work. 

But I saw someone post here and say that they missed watching a movie with their mom and sister. I think that everyone here is at different stages of their lives and then on top of that in their personal development. If you're devoting intense time to meditation and contemplation 3-5 days a week, and meditating at least 20 minutes everyday, I do not see anything wrong with watching a movie with family.

Hanging out with people can seriously make you grow.

[SgtPepper]

1 minute ago, Caterpillar said:

The only difference is that your body remains as a hollow shell. 

Not true at all. 

When you kill the ego, what you are really doing is actually expanding your sense of self, but to the point where you can't actually distinctively identity yourself, hence why you killed yourself.

[brugluiz]

I have a different interpretation of killing your ego. If you consider we live to serve others, you may think that you should have a job in order to do it. Your ego is telling: "I just help others if I have a job." But then you find a job and start working, and you still feel you're not helping others. That happens because your ego tricked you. You can help others from any position, but your ego makes you believe you'll only serve other people after achieving a certain goal.

The same happens with happiness. If you think you'll just be happy when you achieve a certain goal, you'll never be happy.

And finally, it also happens with self-worthiness. If you think you'll just be worthy when you achieve a certain or do a certain thing, you'll never feel you're worthy.

When you kill your ego, you realize you're already helping others. You realize you're pure nature, you're love. You then help other people expecting nothing back because you killed your ego. You see value in other people because you realized your own value.

You don't need to read a book in order to kill your ego. You don't need to meditate. You don't need to have mystical experiences. You don't need to do anything at all.

That's just my interpretation though.

P.S.: killing your ego also let you take action faster.

Edited August 27, 2018 by brugluiz

[outlandish]

@brugluiz You raise some very good points, but calling Leo "shady" is a bit harsh. Clickbaity title worked though! 

He's got a lot to offer, pretty remarkable and unique teacher really - Leo goes deep! But his vibe isn't going to work with everyone all the time. As with any teacher/leader, it's important to not put him on too much of a pedestal, and just learn what you find useful from him, what fits, and don't expect him to be the one all encompassing teacher that is perfect in every way for what you need.

I think in the end, you are your own perfect teacher is yourself. It sounds cliche or pithy, but it's really true. No one knows your situation better than yourself. Great teachers like Leo can only help point you along your way. Sounds like you don't have any problems with that, obviously you're thinking independently here

[Charlotte]

I think Leo is well chilled. He has a serious approach to this work, I take that as passion. I also pick up his comedic side which I LOVE.