Abusive Family dynamic and the pick-up culture

[Privet]

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

In this stage any emotional or self awareness work is almost impossible, the pattern needs to be softened so it can be worked with, and that requires time for the ego to stew in its own soup until it suddenly breaks open. That’s what I meant

Even if the dude is not very narcissistic the work is impossible until the dude is not interested in this work. Again, no difference.

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

Sometimes the parent can even ask the child for a massage, or ask them to validate their appearance in some ways. My mom used to walk in front of me as some sort of a model when she got new clothes asking me to tell her if it looks good on her.

• Usual massage is not related to sex. Are all massagists fulfilling their clients' sexual needs? Do you think your mother was really getting wet because of your massage? I really doubt it.
• Validating looks in terms of clothes is not related to sex. Do all models dress to fulfill their sexual needs on the stage? What about arts? What about beauty? What about self-expression? Fashion? Can you appreciate looks of some model of the same gender? Is that homosexual? If a mother asks a daughter to validate her looks is that because she tries to get some lesbian sexual validation?

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

for a heterosexual mother it’s quite unlikely that she will project her unresolved sexual feelings onto the daughter

Why do you still conclude that this is because of projected sexual feelings? Yes, it might be related to gender, but does that make it sexual? There's still nothing even closely related to sex.

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

Again the problem involves a reverse of roles, where the child is suddenly in an adult role providing for the parent.

What if a mother abuses/manipulates some adult the same way, by validation and shaming? What is the difference? Does that stop to be an abuse? I'm afraid no. It's still an abuse. Therefore the term "covert emotional incest" is completely made up. Kids are easier to manipulate, especially by their parents. There's no any reverse of the roles, there's just an abusive selfish behavior of a parent. Noone is allowed to manipulate anyone to gain their wounded self image, and it doesn't matter if they manipulate a kid or an adult.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Privet

[Martin123]

@Privet I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. You're not wrong in anything you said.
And just to comment 

4 minutes ago, Privet said:

Do you think your mother was really getting wet because of your massage? I really doubt it.

This made me laugh  

I almost wanted to reply with Bro don't underestimate how good my massages are alright?! =DD jk 

I mean in some families this could be the case I guess, and a lot of compassion and love to all parties involved of course. 

Also I am not sure whether you're under the impression that I coined the term covert emotional incest, so just to clarify  I did not, but the incest part of it actually clarified a lot for me and my own experience, which you are free not to agree with and see it as an exaggeration, I totally understand.  

[MiracleMan]

6 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

I almost wanted to reply with Bro don't underestimate how good my massages are alright?! =DD jk 

LOL

[MiracleMan]

3 hours ago, Toby said:

You could find patterns like that in the Enneagram as well:

 

Who is this and where can I find more?  The uploader on the youtube said Bo Laursen but google gave me limited results.

[isabel]

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

Oh dont you dare to stop! 
Let your heart desire whatever it wants, be it moments of peace and fulfillment or a new sexy car.
There's nothing wrong with desiring better experience. It is true that in order to have better experiences you first have to pass through the bad ones, as a trial of fire that will purify your being so the new positive experience can be anchored in the space that was burnt out, but it has nothing to do with what we desire.
The only difference is made by the way we treat ourselves when we feel bad. When you feel bad, you deserve to be loved and adored, treated with respect and compassion. And when you desire feeling differently, the rule is still the same. You still deserve all the love there is to give in the world. 

oh! 

I love everything about what you just said

thank you for this making this post - this is so weird every morning I come here and read exactly what I need to hear

[Martin123]

2 minutes ago, isabel said:

oh! 

I love everything about what you just said

thank you for this making this post - this is so weird every morning I come here and read exactly what I need to hear

Thats sweet, I really love that

[isabel]

Quote

Usual massage is not related to sex. Are all massagists fulfilling their clients' sexual needs? Do you think your mother was really getting wet because of your massage? I really doubt it. 

 

it's better to assume the context of abuse when someone says something and also says that it's abuse

a normal parent doing one thing can be completely different from an abusive parent doing the same thing

plus people who are abused are often doubted so it's better to be the one who doesn't doubt them

<3

 

[MiracleMan]

41 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

Who is this and where can I find more?  The uploader on the youtube said Bo Laursen but google gave me limited results.

Found it.  This is Eli Jackson-Bear.

[Martin123]

Just now, MiracleMan said:

Found it.  This is Eli Jackson-Bear.

Oh my god speaking of narcissism, quoting yourself in a thread, oh how dare you... HOW DARE YOU SIR
 

[MiracleMan]

Just now, Martin123 said:

Oh my god speaking of narcissism, quoting yourself in a thread, oh how dare you... HOW DARE YOU SIR
 

It's my hot body, I do what I want!

[lmfao]

16 hours ago, Privet said:

@Martin123 I think what you described is actually narcissistic behaviour. Read about "good" and "bad" mother in the article that I posted. It's exactly what you're talking about.

This is what narcissists do, they make themselves feel good by abusing others. By controlling them and manipulating, making others worship, making themselves feel important and powerful.

Narcissism doesn't necessarily have to express itself as self-admiration. It can be just plain selfishness, manipulative tendencies, oversensitivity, neediness, attention-whoring and many other things. There's many degrees of narcissism. It's very sneaky and everyone is a narcissist to a degree.

Preach.

[Toby]

2 hours ago, MiracleMan said:

Who is this and where can I find more?  The uploader on the youtube said Bo Laursen but google gave me limited results.

It's from that one: https://www.soundstrue.com/store/from-fixation-to-freedom-499.html
Really recommended to listen to all of it to get a sense of the different types.