Abusive Family dynamic and the pick-up culture

[Martin123]

@Feel Good Btw just as a funny sidenote, self-realization (Im referencing the emotions not real thread you started) if not balanced can often be another way of denying the emotional needs that you werent allowed to have in your family, isnt that mindblowing?!

Btw again self-realization is awesome but this shit is real

[Athena]

What healing techniques are you using ?

[Martin123]

20 minutes ago, Athena said:

What healing techniques are you using ?

There is nothing that can trump self-love and mindful inner self talk, basically you become the loving parent for your inner child that you needed when you were growing up in your family, this will in time transmute the dysfunctional dynamic into conscious authenticity. 

 

15 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

I made that thread in haste and criticized you also unfairly. I apologize for that ~ you bring a lot of much needed value to this forum. 

Oh thank you man thats really sweet of you to say. You are of course forgiven <3 

and again please move this to spirituality, this thread really doesnt belong to dating, its about emotional healing, culture and spirituality as a way of healing the self in order to build meaningful relationships as a byproduct. 
Someone? Idk @Nahm my friend pls

[MiracleMan]

12 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

I recently stumble on the idea of spiritual bypassing. 

Spiritual bypassing is real. 

I have noticed some narcissism in some non duality people and think that this is a problem. 

 

Spiritual bypassing is a motherfucker, but it's good to realize this early on. 

In one sense, spiritual bypassing can lead you away from the goal by occupying time with more fluff that isnt really going anywhere.  It entails an addictive and seeking nature that wants security.

But there is also something in its opposite, where basically your attention and energy is used up trying to put out fires, so many problems, and boy, if you're looking for problems the ego has an endless amount to give if ask for them.  One fire is out, another one ignites, it becomes endless.

On the topic of discussion, I think addressing that core wound, the knife (or knives) in your back, is the way to freedom, and this is really all you can do, is continue to shine light (awareness) on the wound and not let it fester in the darkness.  It lives on ignorance, depends on your fear of it to keep your attention elsewhere so it can grow.

[Martin123]

 By the way to bring out the seriousness of this issue.

I legitimately felt like I was a victim of sexual abuse, and this pattern is what dwells in many sacral chakras of males. It is not a joke at all, and it actually is one of the reasons why sexual abuse and objectification towards women exists, as a byproduct of being objectified by mothers. Which MINDBLOWINGLY is socially acceptable and to a degree culturally encouarged! What a bombshell! 

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, Feel Good said:

@Martin123

Sacral chakras ??

This badboy

[Martin123]

Just now, Feel Good said:

@Martin123

Can there be possibly psychosomatic problems in the lower back because of this issue? 

Stiffness that hasn't seem to got a physical cause? Scholiosis and acute arch of the lower back? 

 

Actually yes very much, Ive had back and slouching issues my entire life.
Also strangely 3 out of 3 times I was on psychedelic musrhooms,  I had a bellyache.

[MiracleMan]

8 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

 By the way to bring out the seriousness of this issue.

I legitimately felt like I was a victim of sexual abuse, and this pattern is what dwells in many sacral chakras of males. It is not a joke at all, and it actually is one of the reasons why sexual abuse and objectification towards women exists, as a byproduct of being objectified by mothers. Which MINDBLOWINGLY is socially acceptable and to a degree culturally encouarged! What a bombshell! 

While it will still seem to require some effort and further investigation, understanding this dynamic is a relief in itself.  You've really blown me away with this insight, I feel like you closed a gap around my understanding of this issue.  I had educated myself up to a certain point, and luckily I was ripe when you laid down that wisdom.  I plowed over the initial resistance and this really just clicked.

Now, if I can keep my head level and not judge or blame, I can really start to clean the wound.  And if judgement arises, that's okay, it will be noted.  

Cleaning the wound is painful, the area is tender and inflamed, but it must be done, there is no other way.  Now is always the opportunity for healing.

[MiracleMan]

23 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

This badboy

I'm a textbook example.  I have diagnosed chronic pain syndrome (lower back, intense physical burning pain for years) without a document physical cause (inflammation shows on MRI but no physical cause has been deduced).  THAT orange area is exactly where my pain is, it's extremely intense.  Sometimes the pain runs from the tail bone almost up to my naval.

Quick rundown of my situation:

Sexual addiction, drug addiction, major depression, severe anxiety, panic attacks.

Difficulty forging relationships with men.  Difficulty maintaining romantic relationships with women.  Drifting sexuality, homosexual fantasy, bisexuality.

Causes guilt, shame, breeds a cycle of dependence.  Hopelessness, fear, death.

Family dynamic:  narcissistic father (the bully, the psychological and physical abuser, the child harmer).  Neurotic mother (chronic worrier, expressed despair and emotional burdens to son, son is a special guy for her).  

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by MiracleMan

[MiracleMan]

@Martin123 @Feel Good Serendipity..."The art of healing comes from nature..."

[Martin123]

15 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

Family dynamic:  narcissistic father (the bully, the psychological and physical abuser, the child harmer).  Neurotic mother (chronic worrier, expressed despair and emotional burdens to son, son is a special guy for her).  

This seems to be the archetype, exactly is my own family.

 

15 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Do women suffer from this covert incest? 

Yes of course to a degree all children are projected on the expectations and neuroses of their parents. 
But this dynamic with boys and mothers is particularly sticky because its such a unconscious tendency in our society. With women, an abusive neglecting father there is obvious expectation that that will cause issues, and thats actually what often can be healed.
However this mother-son dynamic noone ever talks about, thats why I felt like sharing this was so important. 

Women have their own bag of tricks. They play on the opposite spectrum of this dynamic, they are the mothers, and they are then victims of males objectification, its a cycle see?
Men objectified by mothers, leading to the objectification of females as sexual objects, and those females then become mothers, who continue the cycle by objectifying the dude, its just a back and forth movement of polarity. :-) 

[Martin123]

21 minutes ago, MiracleMan said:

I'm a textbook example.  I have diagnosed chronic pain syndrome (lower back, intense physical burning pain for years) without a document physical cause (inflammation shows on MRI but no physical cause has been deduced).  THAT orange area is exactly where my pain is, it's extremely intense.  Sometimes the pain runs from the tail bone almost up to my naval.

Quick rundown of my situation:

Sexual addiction, drug addiction, major depression, severe anxiety, panic attacks.

Difficulty forging relationships with men.  Difficulty maintaining romantic relationships with women.  Drifting sexuality, homosexual fantasy, bisexuality.

Causes guilt, shame, breeds a cycle of dependence.  Hopelessness, fear, death.

Family dynamic:  narcissistic father (the bully, the psychological and physical abuser, the child harmer).  Neurotic mother (chronic worrier, expressed despair and emotional burdens to son, son is a special guy for her).  

Oh im so glad you can shed some light on that. Its a really painful dynamic, and healing it suuucks. But hey, you got it bro, it will be healed, and you will be balanced in time. :-) 

[Martin123]

6 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

@Martin123

What do you think of that book- drama of the gifted child?

Is that recommend reading at therapeutic school for you? #

Ive never heard of that book, but if it resonates with you its lovely. I havent read much in the past two years just having my own kundalini process has kind of divided me from learning too much in external sources, rather than my own experience and healing process. 


By the way I just realised that this actually is the Male equivalent of the #MeeToo Movement. It's so huge!

Edited August 27, 2018 by Martin123

[Toby]

You could find patterns like that in the Enneagram as well:

 

[Martin123]

5 minutes ago, Toby said:

You could find patterns like that in the Enneagram as well:

 

This is some awesomeass content.

[Privet]

5 hours ago, Martin123 said:

Again, what you’re categorising as narcissism is pretty regular self-absorbed behaviour.

Yes, that's right. What I mean by narcissism is any kind of selfish behavior. What you refer to is pathological level of narcissism. We mean different things by narcissism.

5 hours ago, Martin123 said:

It’s true that those are coping mechanisms we develop to deal with out unresolved hurt. What makes it actually different is the way you go about resolving it.

I disagree on that. You resolve pathological narcissism by first gaining awareness over it, then retraining yourself. You resolve "regular self-absorbed behavior" by the very same means, again, those are the different degrees of the same problem and solution is the same but takes more work if you are self-absorbed to a degree of psychiatric disorder and less work if you are not that narcissistic.

Narcissism is not a binary property that you either have it or not. You have it for sure, but to a certain degree.

14 hours ago, Martin123 said:

he would say "Wait but don't all mothers do that?", and I'd say "Yeah, I think this is real in many families, and that is a scary-ass thing to realize."

This is the same thing that I state about narcissism: everyone does it and everyone thinks it's no big deal. Despite that what you call "regular self-absorbed behavior" is regular it's still narcissistic behavior. And despite that everyone thinks it's OK it still hurts feelings of others.

Also I wonder why what you describe is even classified as sexual abuse? What makes that abusive behavior sexual? How is your mother being related to sexual gratification when she tries to gain control over you by the manipulation? Only because you are male and she is female? All the examples that you wrote are related only to gaining control over a child, nothing sexual at all. If she'd be making you tell her she is sexy that'd be sexual.

Many mothers treat their daughters the same way, they control them by the same manipulative means (the "good" and the "bad" mother, shaming/validation), are they trying to commit lesbian emotional incest with their daughters?

Edited August 27, 2018 by Privet

[Martin123]

57 minutes ago, Privet said:

Yes, that's right. What I mean by narcissism is any kind of selfish behavior. What you refer to is pathological level of narcissism. We mean different things by narcissism.

Great seems we are both on the same page.

 

57 minutes ago, Privet said:

if you are self-absorbed to a degree of psychiatric disorder and less work if you are not that narcissistic.

In this stage any emotional or self awareness work is almost impossible, the pattern needs to be softened so it can be worked with, and that requires time for the ego to stew in its own soup until it suddenly breaks open. That’s what I meant  

 

57 minutes ago, Privet said:

Also I wonder why what you describe is even classified as sexual abuse? What makes that abusive behavior sexual?

There are degrees to which the parent (I’m not gonna say just mother because it can be both) can project their unresolved needs onto the child. Sometimes the parent can even ask the child for a massage, or ask them to validate their appearance in some ways. My mom used to walk in front of me as some sort of a model when she got new clothes asking me to tell her if it looks good on her.

I am not saying it is equivalent or classified as sexual abuse, because it isn’t. But my experience of the dynamic was as if I was a survivor of sexual abuse, because the energetic dynamic is very similar to sexual abuse.

57 minutes ago, Privet said:

Many mothers treat their daughters the same way, they control them by the same manipulative means (the "good" and the "bad" mother, shaming/validation), are they trying to commit lesbian emotional incest with their daughters?

Yes they do treat them the same way, but for a heterosexual mother it’s quite unlikely that she will project her unresolved sexual feelings onto the daughter, with fathers that’s another story.

edit: In the mother-daughter relationship the sexual transference can result in a rigid set of rules what is and is not appropriate for a woman to do.

In father and son relationship it can often happen that perhaps a dominant father passes his misogynistic patterns onto the son, which can happen to a daugther as well.

This dynamic isn't universal, and it can't explain all family dynamics. They can be so unique and complicated that this is just a grain of sand in the sea of possibilities. I shared this particular dynamic because it is a part of my healing journey, and I know that it is often almost culturally encouraged, impacting men in very significant ways.

 

Again the problem involves a reverse of roles, where the child is suddenly in an adult role providing for the parent. It may or may not include sexual themes, and when it does it will most likely be sons and mothers, and fathers and daughters.

 

I hope this was clarifying enough, if not ask some more!

Edited August 27, 2018 by Martin123

[Martin123]

Just now, Feel Good said:

Man that's really sad  I'm really sorry that this happened. It's totally innapropriate way to treat a child. This has triggered something in me. 

I just wanna say, awesome! What an opportunity to grow out of codependency through the emotional fires of being reborn.
But yeah it's kinda sad, thanks for your empathy I appreciate it  

[isabel]

my mom is a narcissist

if it wasn't for that suffering I would not be where I am today, which is on the verge of discovering everything, I don't know if I will ever become enlightened or whatever but I love feeling like I'm on the verge

it's a big challenge

I still get upset at times but I've had moments where I can forgive and even thank her - those have been some amazing moments! and now that's all I want, more moments like that - but apparently I have to stop wanting them in order to get them or something , but I love not trying to stop wanting 

<3 <3

[Martin123]

5 minutes ago, isabel said:

I have to stop wanting them in order to get them or something

Oh dont you dare to stop! 
Let your heart desire whatever it wants, be it moments of peace and fulfillment or a new sexy car.
There's nothing wrong with desiring better experience. It is true that in order to have better experiences you first have to pass through the bad ones, as a trial of fire that will purify your being so the new positive experience can be anchored in the space that was burnt out, but it has nothing to do with what we desire.
The only difference is made by the way we treat ourselves when we feel bad. When you feel bad, you deserve to be loved and adored, treated with respect and compassion. And when you desire feeling differently, the rule is still the same. You still deserve all the love there is to give in the world. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Martin123