Video: Life Is A Maze (on psychotherapy)

[Eva]

@Leo Gura could you elaborate why you feel like psychotherapy is not one valid tool for solving the maze? I stopped to ponder on that since I have gotten a lot out of psychotherapy within the last few years.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Eva

[NoSelfSelf]

@Eva From mine experience with psychotherapy they dont try to tell you ,show you, how to escape the maze they try to built you to continue wonder in the maze like everyone else..

[Eva]

4 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Eva From mine experience with psychotherapy they dont try to tell you ,show you, how to escape the maze they try to built you to continue wonder in the maze like everyone else..

That's strange, yet interesting! Can you tell me more about your experiences with it? 

[Leo Gura]

The therapist him/herself usually has no idea about the maze or how to escape it.

[Eva]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The therapist him/herself usually has no idea about the maze or how escape it.

But does it really require that bigger picture understanding from them if they are helping you with one, narrow and specific trap (as you mentioned in your video)? In my case, we're working on emotional expression & understanding and solidifying my sense of self, which I feel like are the building blocks for my self-actualization. It's only one small part of the maze. Also, my diffuse sense of self (because of developmental issues) inherently makes it hard to work on these problems alone, so I feel like I have benefitted it a lot.

So is it really legit to disregard psychotherapy as a whole altogether, since it can't and shouldn't solve your existential issues more broadly? I mean, can't a mentor and their knowledge be a good tool in trap specific problem-solving?

[Hello from Russia]

I see it like this: conventional psychotherapist might help you with escaping surface level mazes (for example, hard drug or alcohol addiction, relationship abuses, etc) but he won't be able to help you with more fundamental mazes such as things like life and reality as we know it unless he is of course some enlightened therapist

Edited August 26, 2018 by Hello from Russia

[NoSelfSelf]

@Eva Well we would talk and talk about specific problem and over time that problem would be less and less but still there is infinite numbers of problems mind can create, not realizing that its just a game of the ego...they try to built up your ego so you can be good in an illusion but not happy where escaping the maze is another direction another path to freedom and halppiness...

[Eva]

2 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I see it like this: conventional psychotherapist might help you with escaping surface level mazes (for example, hard drug or alcohol addiction, relationship abuses, etc) but he won't be able to help you with more fundamental mazes such as things like life unless he is of course some enlightened therapist

But shouldn't people work with their surface level issues first (if they still have such) to create a foundation for solving the fundamental ones? So is it appropriate to say that psychotherapy doesn't help you solve the maze when it actually does? In the initial levels, in which some of us unfortunately still are in.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Eva

[Hello from Russia]

Just now, Eva said:

But shouldn't people work with their surface level issues first (if they still have such) to create a foundation for solving the fundamental ones? So is it appropriate to say that psychotherapy doesn't help you solve the maze when it actually does? In the initial levels, in which some of us unfortunately still are.

Yes, of course. That's also what Leo stresses himself in almost all of his videos. Just need to be aware that there are deeper mazes and that "there is a bigger fish to try".

[Eva]

5 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Eva Well we would talk and talk about specific problem and over time that problem would be less and less but still there is infinite numbers of problems mind can create, not realizing that its just a game of the ego...they try to built up your ego so you can be good in an illusion but not happy where escaping the maze is another direction another path to freedom and halppiness...

Too bad to hear that you didn't benefit from it. It probably doesn't work for everyone, since it seems that people are on different levels in this game of life. Yet, it's important to pick ones that serve you and drop the ones that don't. My experiences are different, but so are my challenges. Just making a point here that disregarding some tool completely for everybody seems like black-and-white thinking at its peak.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Eva

[Eva]

1 minute ago, Hello from Russia said:

Yes, of course. That's also what Leo stresses himself in almost all of his videos. Just need to be aware that there are deeper mazes and that "there is a bigger fish to try".

Yeah, I completely agree with you. It might be a lucrative trap to just get stuck to the surface level and feel good about yourself and boost your ego, as @NoSelfSelf pointed out. Without seeing that it's actually only the initial stage.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Eva i benefited from it but the amount of money compared to resaults were not there and i know that how healthy and good my ego could be it wont be as good as the transended mind...btw i love your profile pic did you made it?

[Eva]

4 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Eva i benefited from it but the amount of money compared to resaults were not there and i know that how healthy and good my ego could be it wont be as good as the transended mind...btw i love your profile pic did you made it?

Oh, I wish! Unfortunately, it's not made by me, it's Camilla d'Erricos piece called Mamba Mia (source here).
It really is stunning, isn't it :-)

[Eva]

/rant

As a bit of a sidetrack yet related to this very issue, I'm really triggered (as you can tell, working on it...) with people who seem to disregard mastering the initial and so-called lower levels by jumping to advanced topics right away. I have come across a lot of people who have a whole bunch of deep-rooted rookie-level problems (denial, shadows, problems in relationships, addictions, mental health issues and life-skills in general) they clearly haven't dealt with at all. Yet these "Tolle fanboys" feel like it's sufficient to skip these so-called lesser earthly matters and spend their days smoking pot and pondering about the universe while their bills are piling up and relationships falling apart around them. 

That all would be fine and dandy, but these same persons look heavily down to people like myself, who use (who have to use) their time and energy to address the bigger underlying issues. Yeah, it really is embarrassing and demoralizing to work on issues in your thirties that most of the people have had the luxury to work in their early teens. It doesn't help that I get pitying looks from these holier-than-thou shortcut creators for not being all metaphysical all the time when I have more concrete issues to deal with. By denying your own problems and presenting yourself as a higher level being than the honest low-level folks like myself doesn't really serve you in the long run.

I know I shouldn't care. It just really gets to me at times.

I too wish I was over these initial phases. Yet I am not, and I need to be honest where I am on the map and act accordingly. It's just not the popular way of seeing things these days, I can tell. 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Eva

[Leo Gura]

Therapy can of course be useful. For some people it is an important step in their path in escaping the maze.

I am supportive of therapy. It just isn't sufficient by itself to resolve the maze.

[Leo-Tzu]

How do you know that escaping the maze is what we should go after. . . Why not being the fattest rat in the maze ? Without neurosis without disfunctions . . .? God himself pun on the maze or the show if you like and who are you to say we must wake up and stop playing gods game, or if im god why should i even stop to play because you a mere puppet tell me to???? (I'm being the devil's advocate here, even alan watts says the basic game of life is hide and seek but we cant ask him why today)

Edited August 26, 2018 by Leo-Tzu

[RichardY]

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[Lynnel]

On 26/08/2018 at 1:49 PM, Eva said:

/rant

As a bit of a sidetrack yet related to this very issue, I'm really triggered (as you can tell, working on it...) with people who seem to disregard mastering the initial and so-called lower levels by jumping to advanced topics right away. I have come across a lot of people who have a whole bunch of deep-rooted rookie-level problems (denial, shadows, problems in relationships, addictions, mental health issues and life-skills in general) they clearly haven't dealt with at all. Yet these "Tolle fanboys" feel like it's sufficient to skip these so-called lesser earthly matters and spend their days smoking pot and pondering about the universe while their bills are piling up and relationships falling apart around them. 

That all would be fine and dandy, but these same persons look heavily down to people like myself, who use (who have to use) their time and energy to address the bigger underlying issues. Yeah, it really is embarrassing and demoralizing to work on issues in your thirties that most of the people have had the luxury to work in their early teens. It doesn't help that I get pitying looks from these holier-than-thou shortcut creators for not being all metaphysical all the time when I have more concrete issues to deal with. By denying your own problems and presenting yourself as a higher level being than the honest low-level folks like myself doesn't really serve you in the long run.

I know I shouldn't care. It just really gets to me at times.

I too wish I was over these initial phases. Yet I am not, and I need to be honest where I am on the map and act accordingly. It's just not the popular way of seeing things these days, I can tell. 

Honestly I'm also extremely annoyed at all of this. Like the stoner bro advice "oh man you just gotta get enlightened and no more problems no reason to do anything".

Only 0.00001% of people even get to enlightenement. Most of people talking about it are just mentally masturbating with conceptual notions.

You don't even have to become enlightened => you're fully free to do anything, you don't even have to solve the maze, you can do whatever you want ! You can simply live a "normal" life get kids and die at 80. It's fine. Honestly this whole " discard everything" and only enlightenement is worth it ideology is extremely annoying to me.

Therapy is an amazing tool which has helped me a lot. Every tool has its limitations you need to realize but that's completely fine too. In general, as a independant thinker you need to take nothing on faith (Leo talks about this a lot) and check it for yourself. Do what works for you. Consider that everyone aside from you is strictly full of shit and disagree with everything by default and then carefully consider it for yourself. That's independent thinking.

Even if you know WHO you are, your body mind still "exists" and it can enjoy its life and it can just freaking go to therapy or do whatever for all I care. If there was a "me" to care lol. (I'm talking from direct experience). "You" are not even going to therapy You have like zero choice in that matter !

[tsuki]

On 26.08.2018 at 1:49 PM, Eva said:

/rant [...]

I too wish I was over these initial phases. Yet I am not, and I need to be honest where I am on the map and act accordingly. It's just not the popular way of seeing things these days, I can tell. 

@Eva Don't worry too much about being advanced or not. Bragging about being advanced is a trap in itself.
The maze is such that conquering the small traps lets you notice the big ones.
It is not at all obvious which are small and which are big. The same applies to being advanced or not.

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Quote

Bragging about being advanced is a trap in itself.

You brag a lot dude. 

Thank you.
Anything more specific?

Edited August 27, 2018 by tsuki