Life is a Dream - @Leo / Others, question

[SoonHei]

Watched Leo's life's a dream video

 

Have a question.

 

So it seems that while we are dreaming, that dream in itself is as real as our normal waking state.

 

But is our waking state not in a way a different kind of reality as we keep returning to it...?

 

Or that's how the experience seems to flow... But we keep returning to our "same" waking state reality and dream a random dream every night.

 

Also, when one has a lucid dream, is that comparable to awakening in the real world?

 

From that dream reality perspective, the one lucid dream moment ( I was 10ish) I had, I still remember it because it became as "real" or high definition as our waking reality when I became lucid in it.

Anyhow, I recall upon discovering in the dream that HOLY SHIT, THIS IS A DREAM it was pretty 'liberating" . Not that I was having a bad dream but all of a sudden I did a bunch of shit any thing I thought of would happen.. only lasted like 6-8 seconds maybe lol and then I woke up

 

The realization that I am dreaming was quite WTF moment and cool but I still had a sense of I. I chose to fly ... I didn't see flight happen or oneness...

 

So I guess awakening in our waking dream reality must be much more crazy as the sense of I would be also seen to have been an illusion.

[Rilles]

Can you prove that this life youre living now is real? Where would you ground yourself? 

[Salvijus]

 

[WindInTheLeaf]

7 hours ago, SoonHei said:

Watched Leo's life's a dream video

 

Have a question.

 

So it seems that while we are dreaming, that dream in itself is as real as our normal waking state.

 

But is our waking state not in a way a different kind of reality as we keep returning to it...?

 

Or that's how the experience seems to flow... But we keep returning to our "same" waking state reality and dream a random dream every night.

 

Also, when one has a lucid dream, is that comparable to awakening in the real world?

 

From that dream reality perspective, the one lucid dream moment ( I was 10ish) I had, I still remember it because it became as "real" or high definition as our waking reality when I became lucid in it.

Anyhow, I recall upon discovering in the dream that HOLY SHIT, THIS IS A DREAM it was pretty 'liberating" . Not that I was having a bad dream but all of a sudden I did a bunch of shit any thing I thought of would happen.. only lasted like 6-8 seconds maybe lol and then I woke up

 

The realization that I am dreaming was quite WTF moment and cool but I still had a sense of I. I chose to fly ... I didn't see flight happen or oneness...

 

So I guess awakening in our waking dream reality must be much more crazy as the sense of I would be also seen to have been an illusion.

I love dream-analogies, dreams have taught me quite a lot. What if a dream is a fractal of a life. That you wake up living every life as a dream. So dreams would be dreams within dreams, or a deeper level of the dream. Lucid dreaming is like waking without waking, so in life it would be dying without dying. When you lucid dream it's almost like your dream-'I' dies and you become the dream as you realize you are not the guy caught up in some kind of drama, but rather that all that is is you. What if all dreams are exact representations of all lives in what we think of as the waking state. Many dreams are non-lucid, just as many lives end before enlightenment, but every dream as every life is precious in its own way, as they are all perfect manifestations of the higher self. Coming to rest in whatever dream/life/experience one might be having right here and now is the end of illusion, as you become one with the truth, one with your higher self that is the whole dream. You fall awake when you stop clinging to ideas about reality vs. yourself.

The idea of a problem is the problem. The idea of separation is the separation. Even so, having ideas about things and thoughts for that matter is not a problem. The problem is not accepting that everything is in perfect order right here and now. But this is not a problem. Everything happens at its rightful time. How can this ever be explained in words? Saying there is no problem is saying there is a problem. Reading about how the key is to relax is now an idea of having to relax which makes it impossible to relax. Just be, i guess. 

 

[SoonHei]

9 hours ago, Rilles said:

Can you prove that this life youre living now is real? Where would you ground yourself? 

All experience is "real"

 

That's why I know there is 0 difference between my current waking state and a dream state (while I am living in them)

 

It's only after waking up from a dream can you look back and go like Woah, that was a dream

 

What I was just asking that why/what is it that I keep "returning" to this current waking state after waking up from my nightly dreams...

I think leo may have referred to this calling it a higher level or order of reality/dream...

 

 

Please can someone shed light on it

 

 

 

[Arkandeus]

real, illusion, dream or no dream

life has always been what it is right now, life is what it is

our mind can slap on as many concepts as it wants on that, it doesn't change a thing, in my opinion

 

follow the energy

what do you feel when you call life real?

what do you feel when you call life an illusion?

what do you feel when you call it a dream?

those feelings that are the most expansive, those that make you feel good, positive, excited, there is the truth, they point towards the right concepts

the truth feels good, feels amazing, feels just as exotic and amazing as the first time you watched your favourite movie or ate your favourite dish!

the truth is not a concept in the mind, it is felt in the body with every single cell of your body

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Arkandeus

[SoonHei]

54 minutes ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

That you wake up living every life as a dream. So dreams would be dreams within dreams, or a deeper level of the dream.

Yes but initiated from a "grounded dream" i.e. the current waking state ???

[SoonHei]

5 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

what do you feel when you call life real?

what do you feel when you call life an illusion?

what do you feel when you call it a dream?

All the same

 

I get that

 

Labeling it doesn't change

I'm rather inquiring into the mechanism of how it goes from one state to another

 

And different order of reality so to speak

[SoonHei]

11 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

the truth is not a concept in the mind, it is felt in the body with every single cell of your body

if your head is the only place where you feel something in regards to a concept, it is no truth

Yes

 

I'm not sure this also applies to lower level of truths 

 

I have felt this feeling in the body about knowing and loving that truth <3

[starsofclay]

@SoonHei I'm sorry to hear you haven't had a lucid experience since around 10 years old. I highly suggest you experiment with it and try to induce lucid dreams.  Best place to learn techniques is from lucid dreaming forums and there are some books. 

Once you get a feeling for waking up in an illusory reality, I think a lot of things will click for you. Not saying that it will bring you enlightenment alone, but it's a great experience to prime your mind and ego for having your reality shaken. 

It's also an amazing tool for exploring consciousness and I absolutely can not believe it's not a more popular subject among seekers  and just the general population. One of the bad reps it gets is that it is hard to achieve, but I think if we were all taught at an early age, it would not only be easy but the human race would advance rapidly as more and more begin to explore consciousness even if not turned on to the whole enlightenment concept. Just my two cents... Don't spend it all in one place. 

[Arkandeus]

40 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

That's wrong.

Because this quest for Truth causes fear, especially ego death. And especially if you make God pissed off and he starts to torture you. Or in some cases: demons start to haunt them. Or in some cases: you go insane/get psychosis etc.

This whole Truth thing is like asking for trouble and fear.

So: that would then show that the Truth is not something to strive for because the Truth isn't the Truth. 

truth is ultimately also merely a concept, for the sake of communication I use the concept truth, but you could call it that which moves you

your perspective seems to be for there to be no truth, but you see this is a truth as well, truth, perspective, view, words do not matter

we are all moving, and there is that which moves us

 

call it truth, direction , purpose, whatever, that which moves you, it is always in connection with feeling good and better

the problem is when we get confused on how to feel good

 

you just told me your stance, that there is no truth

all I see is fear, concepts do not matter

what do you feel when you express this perspective on life? is this what you want to feel?

 

 

 

[starsofclay]

@Mikael89 I understand you have been through something traumatic but you will never grow from it unless you realize it was completely self induced and stop blaming "God got pissed at you"  If anything you are pissed at yourself and probably not admitting it, therefore it manifested in the episode you had the other day.  You say yourself that you are God, so who is it that you keep putting blame on for all that?  Please please please don't let your ego react and reject everything I said because deep down I think you know it's true. 

 

[Arkandeus]

59 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

All the same

 

I get that

 

Labeling it doesn't change

I'm rather inquiring into the mechanism of how it goes from one state to another

 

And different order of reality so to speak

hmm well then to share something that might be more related to that

I noticed lately that when I dream I seem to live through what is going on, but kind of like watching a movie

as if life is happening to me

in a tale of buddha, buddha is seen approaching a man who tells him to not get closer and buddha answers that buddha has never moved at all

I guess that is the feeling, when I dream I don't seem to be moving, things just happen

 

[WindInTheLeaf]

 

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

Yes but initiated from a "grounded dream" i.e. the current waking state ???

Grounded in what`?

[SoonHei]

@starsofclay can you do it with a good success rate? Induce lucid dreams?

[SoonHei]

9 minutes ago, Arkandeus said:

I guess that is the feeling, when I dream I don't seem to be moving, things just happen

Hmmm

Yes. Somehow if I look back upon any dream I have had (after waking up from the dream) I can relate to that to an extent

 

Like after the fact, it was like I had that entire experience occur to "me"

[SoonHei]

@WindInTheLeaf exactly

I know reality itself is groundless

 

I am referring to the process/each of our experience

 

Let Waking State be represented by ∆ 

Let our nightly dreams be represented by ßn

N being the variable since each of those dreams vary in story/setting etc

 

So this is how our experience goes

 

∆ - ß1 - ∆ - ß2 - ∆ - ß3 - ∆ ...

 

So on. 

 

You see the recurring ∆ 

That's what I am referring to when I say our "grounded state" where we "launch" into the various ßn experiences...

 

The substance and lived experience of both ∆ and ßn are the same

 

Yet ∆ is a recurring experience with a seeming continuity

 

So all im asking is that the ∆, although same in all aspects as ßn, somehow a higher order or somehow differentiated than our dreams as per our experience that I mentioned above.

[starsofclay]

@SoonHei@SoonHei.  

When I'm actively practicing, I have anywhere from 1-5 per month. Still working on extending time spent lucid, but I'm past the point of waking myself up upon realizing I'm lucid.  Learning breath control helps a lot, although of course you aren't really breathing in the dream, the psychological effect of staying calm is important. 

[WindInTheLeaf]

Just now, SoonHei said:

@WindInTheLeaf exactly

I know reality itself is groundless

 

I am referring to the process/each of our experience

 

Let Waking State be represented by ∆ 

Let our nightly dreams be represented by ßn

N being the variable since each of those dreams vary in story/setting etc

 

So this is how our experience goes

 

∆ - ß1 - ∆ - ß2 - ∆ - ß3 - ∆ ...

 

So on. 

 

You see the recurring ∆ 

That's what I am referring to when I say our "grounded state" where we "launch" into the various ßn experiences...

 

The substance and lived experience of both ∆ and ßn are the same

 

Yet ∆ is a recurring experience with a seeming continuity

 

So all im asking is that the ∆, although same in all aspects as ßn, somehow a higher order or somehow differentiated than our dreams as per our experience that I mentioned above.

If reality is groundless, how can the waking state, being a higher order of reality than dreams be more grounded? Wouldn't that make it less real? What if the seeming continuity is nothing more than that, and we create a sense of continuity by perpetuating certain patterns of behavior by thought/ego/identity. So you wake up and go about your day thinking you are the same as you were when you went to sleep, which makes you live a day much similar to yesterday. What if you create seeming continuity by thinking it is so? But this would mean that reality is a manifestation of mind and not the other way around. 

Have you tried having a dream within a dream? So you wake up in your bed and think you are awake, but you are still dreaming? What if the waking state is like that? Sure, it might be closer to the beginning of the infinite chain of dreams, but where is the beginning and end of infinity? Being awake sure seems like it's more real than dreaming in my sleep, but how do i know I am not dreaming in a dream? That i believe to be awake and in the 'real' world only seems so when I relate it to my dreams, and how do I know that I am not just dreaming an amazingly complex dream, with infinite layers to it. Then what sense does it make to compare two stages of the dream and say that one is a higher order of reality than the other. The layers are like the layers of a cake, it's all one cake with infinite layers, and not one layer is higher or lower than the rest. Its like a cake-layered cake. All experience is one experience. We can talk from now til infinity about the relationships of the different manifestations of experience/dream, compare them to one another and explain how it all comes together. But its like whenever we say something we leave something out. Like building sandcastles near the shore. Or pushing a giant rock up a hill for eternity. Started trailing off, hope something was worthwhile reading. 

 

[SoonHei]

11 hours ago, WindInTheLeaf said:

What if the waking state is like that? Sure, it might be closer to the beginning of the infinite chain of dreams, but where is the beginning and end of infinity? Being awake sure seems like it's more real than dreaming in my sleep, but how do i know I am not dreaming in a dream? That i believe to be awake and in the 'real' world only seems so when I relate it to my dreams, and how do I know that I am not just dreaming an amazingly complex dream, with infinite layers to it. Then what sense does it make to compare two stages of the dream and say that one is a higher order of reality than the other. The layers are like the layers of a cake, it's all one cake with infinite layers, and not one layer is higher or lower than the rest. Its like a cake-layered cake. All experience is one experience.

@WindInTheLeaf holy shit

 

Thanks! That was very helpful! 

 

The first line about "what if this is that, waking up thinking I'm awake but I'm actually dreaming

 

There is no way to know!

 

Unless one wakes up that is... Lol

So I guess this yet again puts it all in perspective

 

That if u put the dream and reality on the same filmroll , our little daily awakenings occur on the different frames on that filmroll... All on the same plane of reality

 

So the real awakening is outside of that filmroll reality. Wow.thats why it's unlike anything else we have or can possibly imagine

 

All of what can be experienced , all the infinite absolute experiences are all on that film roll

 

So when "we" wake up and "see" from the place-less place . Place where there is "non-experience" since all of what can we experienced is on that filmroll, the filmroll is alive yet aware of each Experiences in it. When enlightenment occurs we "see" from meta-filmroll 

 

That's they reason I suppose why it is said that it cannot be explained in any way possible since it's outside the realm of experience

 

 

Oh but it blows my mind that it's all one! Woah

 

God bless

God is the greatest!