Spiral conflct: she hates my authenticity, I hate her social sensitivity

[Privet]

7 minutes ago, Ar_Senses said:

I mean, if you now will be dropped in the deep forest of Amazonia you'll activate your biege stage or imagine if you are gay from Netherlands, who moved to live in Iraq or North Korea.

That's not progress or regress. If you take a yellow and leave him in the forest of Amazonia he will still remain yellow. And if you are a yellow gay in North Korea you would just not tell anybody and plan your way out of the country, still remaining yellow and not regressing to blue.

If the environment makes you act like blue or beige it doesn't make you blue or beige. You can't unrealize your insights about how the world and society works. I think regress is only possible if you haven't realized them fully.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Privet

[Ar_Senses]

@Privet

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3) The vibe matters, even if you told the truth but with intonation of judgment people feel that.

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Dude! It's fucking selfish! 

Yeah, but it seems for me more like a lack of capability to express yourself in the right way (on the language of those, whith whom you communicating). I've saw that video not so far ago and find out that there is a couple red flags in the both of us. I don't think I should be solo before everything will be solved, as well as she.

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I would suspect that you both are unaware of the shadow parts of your characters, but the question is to which degree each of you is egocentric and are you both willing to work on that problem? Or is that only you that is interested to find the truth?

Yeah, I feel right now that these situation isn't about right or wrong, it's about communication and also my own growth and lack of understanding how to solve conflicts. I've heard a little about working with the shadow, but not familar with that and never made it directly. Can you share some information and "how to" about it?

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If you take a yellow and leave him in the forest of Amazonia he will still remain yellow.

Sure, but is't it'll happend because of awareness of yellow about the whole spiral and capability of "transforming"? In Don Beck's book there is a good quote "Spiral Master can wear three-piece suit or jeans depending on situation". I don't think that tear 1 can be comparative with tear 2 in that case.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Ar_Senses

[Privet]

1 hour ago, Ar_Senses said:

Yeah, but it seems for me more like a lack of capability to express yourself in the right way (on the language of those, whith whom you communicating).

I meant that this is her selfish behaviour when she justifies her arrogance with being tired and stuff. That's an abuse of your feelings. Did she show any sign of regret for this later? Is she able to admit her fault when she did something that made you upset?

1 hour ago, Ar_Senses said:

Can you share some information and "how to" about it?

First step is gaining your base level of awareness by meditation on emotions and starting to notice how you act and feel in conflict situations. Then you analyze why this is happening. I gave you the example of the "how to" analysis in my message about shadow. Try to contemplate my statements and find out what is actually the case, who is overreacting you or her or both and why.

Also analyze your relationships with parents very thoroughly. Did your mother manipulate you? Did she shame you? Did she rise her voice on you? Did she make you feel unworthy/not good enough and stuff? Did that lead to overcompensation of these abuses in your adult life? Like trying to impress others, gaining your feeling of worthiness by external means (for example trying to justify for yourself that you are better than someone), being overly sensitive to criticism etc. etc. etc.

That's the basics of how emotional trauma works. You were abused -> you suppressed the hurt and it became unconscious -> you overcompensate it by acting like the abuser because you don't see the real motivations of your actions and justify it in various ways. Always questioning and finding true motivations of your behaviour is the key.

You can find helpful videos/books on those topics: roots of narcissism, psychological shadow, emotional healing, emotional maturity, Jungian psychology.

It's a matter of practice, for me meditation and gaining awareness over my emotions and behaviour were really helpful. Plain analysis is not as effective. But both are necessary.

Also gaining awareness is helpful to notice when people abuse and manipulate you in very cunning and hidden ways. When there's enough awareness with time you just can't tolerate various bullshit of others and start to protect your boundaries better.

1 hour ago, Ar_Senses said:

Sure, but is't it'll happend because of awareness of yellow about the whole spiral and capability of "transforming"? In Don Beck's book there is a good quote "Spiral Master can wear three-piece suit or jeans depending on situation". I don't think that tear 1 can be comparative with tear 2 in that case.

I think that if you put two greens in a wild forest they wouldn't eat each other, but if you do so with beige they would, although, who knows... That really made me ponder.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Privet

[Martin123]

2 hours ago, Ar_Senses said:

downgrade on spiral

I hate to break it to you but downgrading is impossible, when you regress to some old patterns its only a deeper integration of your ego.

[Elisabeth]

From your examples ... would you say her behaviour is more accented if she's around her sister/family of origin/ perhaps preexisting friends?

It seems to me you're mostly breaking some unspoken rules of her social circle. 

Like behaviour which is totally ok with your friends is not totally ok with her family around. 

Actually, overall I think you will have to take a bit of both ways - getting more sensitive to social cues and conforming sometimes, esp. if she's not the only one holding the more strict opinion, AND standing your ground with your more laid back style. Like, maybe you just don't go buy tissues because she's smoking. She can do that later. And maybe you don't iron your jeans everyday. You've decided it's to much work, and it's not necessary in your social context. That's it, and it's for her to accept. But maybe you do that when you two go to the movies, because she cares. Or maybe you take her word that people care and you do iron your jeans everyday. I don't know your situation.

Learn how to set boundaries in a polite and appropriate manner. So that it's not "childish" talking back in an offended voice, but it's stating clearly what you will and will not do. It's ok to have boundaries. Go read up on them. 

It's ok to tell jokes which offend her. It's also ok for her to choose to not share social events with you where you tell these jokes, or even break up with you over it. It's also ok to choose NOT to tell these jokes just because it's upsetting to her. 

Forget about right and wrong. Instead start figuring out what you are and aren't willing to do, and what would be most helpful to the relationship. Also, don't argue with her, it's draining. Instead, discuss with the intention to understand her POV without feeling like you necessarily need to accept it. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Elisabeth

[Aimblack]

You did not lie when you said you were going to be honest, that's a really cool quality to have ! My own two cents are just a quote from Ken Wilber: All perspectives are right and partial.  So maybe that helps with the question of who is right and who is wrong. Maybe even if you don't want to adapt her perspective can you put yourself in her shoes and feel what she would feel and see that it is completely legit to feel that way? Maybe communicating from that standpoint can be helpful? 

[floresflowerscgf]

         Do you walk down the street naked and wear your PJ's to work because they are comfortable? Probably not. Because there are social norms and expectations put in place that even you follow, or else there will be negative consequences giving you personal discomfort from social back-lash/rejection, or legal punishment. As you are raised, you are guided to know what is socially acceptable and not acceptable by your parents, family, friends, and especially in the educational system by your fellow peers as you try and understand your place in the "tribe". It sounds to me that you lacked some of that social-norm guidance by a lack of formal education, and only having a mother to raise you. That isn't a "bad" thing. As a female, I personally want my man to be able to effectively live in society and score high on social likeability. That doesn't mean that him or I need to be liked and accepted all the time with everything that we do, but that in a general way we are respected and accepted into the group. I think there is a natural instinct that also shows me that my man has good emotional and mental intelligence to survive well in and out of the pack... and it sounds like your behaviors make her feel isolated being associated with someone who she feels cannot register the social norms of her pack.

 

       Now, one thing my mom always taught me growing up was to never go into a relationship expecting to change someone. I never really bought into that until a year ago. The ONLY thing you have any sort of real control over is yourself. You cannot really change her no matter how much you try, and she cannot really change you no matter how much she tries (unless you as individuals decide for YOURSELVES that you want to be a certain way).

 

       My main advice here is to look at yourself. Take her concerns and opinions and really lay them out in front of you and take an honest look at them. If you cannot honestly look at them, then put yourself in a place of safety and humility the best you can before you proceed. Are any of her concerns/opinions that in your opinion are valid, and are there things you can improve on? No? Ok, that's fine. You had the courage and humility to look at her viewpoint honestly for yourself and have made that decision for yourself. Yes? Then why not change them and become a better person for yourself?
 

      Then, take a look at her. Is she able to admit when she is wrong? Is she able to discuss respectfully why she believes she is correct and in what areas? Is she seeking to improve herself for the better for her own inner peace? Yes? Then there is something both of you can work with here. No? I would really examine this relationship if I were you. A relationship should be a teammate-partnership. You should be working at least towards the same general goals and be enriching each other's lives with what each of you brings to the table. You should seek to first satisfy your own deep, inner needs, then overflow into each other with positive energy and vigor. It sounds to me that you do not feel seen, appreciated, accepted and loved for who you are... which I can honestly see from the perspective that you gave. She also seems to feel embarrassed and afraid of being outcast by being in association with someone who can't seem to understand the basic social norms that she believes in... which I can also see and understand. It is a hard situation sir and I wish you the best of luck!

Edited August 31, 2018 by floresflowerscgf

[Shadowraix]

One of the problems I see while yes we all do have a very vague mutual understanding of social norms in how to act and communicate there is a LOT of variation from individuals. And this often derives from personality. I love dark humor jokes and a lot of my friends and I share them. Other friends, not so much. I have friends in which insults are normal and friendly, others would get offended.

Does your gf realize that while her social norm standards have some truth in what people might expect that it doesn't apply to every person? You have to really get to know a person before you truly find out what is and isn't acceptable to them which that inherently is arbitrary. Aren't you a direct example of this variation in norm standards? So why should you follow her standards and why shouldn't both of you adopt the standards of a different person?

One problem with behavior is that you can act intending an expression of one thing and they interpret it another. In private 1-1 contact if your gf is still interpreting you as rude then its not only about social situations with others but she is forgetting a key component that not everybody will abide by her social standards. What she should do is  be learning your behavior and intentions behind such behavior so that she can accurately interpret you.

In the social standard I think there is some possible grounding in being more thoughtful in if what you could say could upset someone and potentially rephrasing it differently. People like to jump to conclusions based on voice tone and attitude and also depending on if you are challenging their ideas or not. So saying "Aw it can't be that bad!" is a direct challenge to his ideas and can make people defensive. 

In social situations you could see it as some kind of puzzle. Now if you get to know someone better you then you can start dropping such caution in social situations as its far less formal.

[Haumea2018]

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In fact, I'm afraid that my girl, without realizing herself, is doing the work of the collective ego and if I make myself what she wants me to be, I'll spiral backward, and my connection with the authentic self will become thinner.

She's probably doing the work of the collective shadow, and those qualities she's talking about need to be developed and integrated.

Of course, you're only 23, and that full development of the inferior comes much later.

I would say that you'd be well-advised to at least develop those qualities to a level of a normal healthy 23 year old of your personality type.

So, like, a 10% improvement would likely be beneficial and noticeable.

And in addition you'd feel more emotionally stable as well.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Haumea2018