Is non-duality an ideology?

[exhale]

Some things are easy to identify as ideologies: rationalism, catholicism, atheism, veganism, etc.  

But what about the things we believe are the absolute truth, such as non-duality.  Is that not an ideology in itself?

If we subscribe to that "truth" based on our knowledge and personal experience, is that ideology limiting our ability to self-inquire further?

 

[exhale]

I am only half way through Leo's ideology video.  Hopefully, he does not address this in the latter half of the video making this discussion moot.  

[brugluiz]

If you consider the etymology of this word, non-duality is just an ideology if it's a set of ideas, doctrines through which the world is interpreted.

[B_Naz]

It's only an ideology when you try to rationalise non-duality. It's an experience you need to actually go through before you understand what people actually mean. Even me using the word "experience" is no way accurate to what non-duality is.

[exhale]

11 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

It's only an ideology when you try to rationalise non-duality. It's an experience you need to actually go through before you understand what people actually mean. Even me using the word "experience" is no way accurate to what non-duality is.

Thanks for your perspective B_Naz, I appreciate and understand what you are saying.  

If I could ask you a relevant follow-up question:

What would you say if a person of the catholic belief had a vision/experience and experienced god in the form of a bearded man in the clouds, or an angel... and in their experience, that was the absolute truth to them.

Why do "we" have the right (or arrogance) to say that "no, what that person is experiencing, the bearded man, is not the absolute truth.  This over here (non-duality) is the absolute truth.  That person (catholic) is just deluded in ideology that prevents them from seeing the truth. ".  But on some level, if we subscribe to non-duality is a component of the absolute truth, can we not say that non-duality itself is not an ideology that is deluding us?  

How can we reconcile that "our" truth is the actual truth?  

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by exhale

[B_Naz]

@exhale His belief and my belief are all the same. In non-duality, there is no separation from the Truth. God (even if it's Christian) is part of the Truth. All Truth are equal in non-duality. That's how deep this goes, and we have no right to tell that person if they are wrong or right. If you try to convince people of non-duality, you're imposing them because you're trying to get them to understand, and the only way to make them understand is via rationalisation.

His God is the same as my God. There is no separation in reality  

All is infinite, and this includes the existence of God!

Edited August 24, 2018 by B_Naz

[d0ornokey]

he discusses this in the end of the video. i thikn during faq part

[exhale]

3 minutes ago, d0ornokey said:

he discusses this in the end of the video. i thikn during faq part

Okay thanks, I was hesitant about posting this because I had not finished the video.  It usually takes me a week to get through the video's in piece meal, and didn't want to wait to discuss this thought.  Thank you though. 

 

[exhale]

5 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

@exhale His belief and my belief are all the same. In non-duality, there is no separation from the Truth. God (even if it's Christian) is part of the Truth. All Truth are equal in non-duality. That's how deep this goes, and we have no right to tell that person if they are wrong or right. If you try to convince people of non-duality, you're imposing them because you're trying to get them to understand, and the only way to make them understand is via rationalisation.

His God is the same as my God. There is no separation in reality  

All is infinite, and this includes the existence of God!

That's deep...  Let me chew on that for a bit.  

[exhale]

B_Naz,

I guess this could go on forever, I feel like my 3-year old asking "why?, why?, why?",  but I have to ask the question: 

Is "All is infinite" not an ideology?

[B_Naz]

@exhale Hey man, you gotta ask questions. You gotta say "why why why", so don't feel bad. You gotta question your entire reality and perception to because you know, we're trying to figure out our ENTIRE EXISTENCE! Question literally everything, because that's the best way to not get sucked into ideologies. 

But be open minded, it's the most important thing

All is infinite could mean all ideologies are equal and are the same. They come from the same place... Ego. So I say it's not really an ideology, because it means all ideologies and reality are in oneness so it's all the same, but it's not like you can be a christian and a muslim at the same time... You gotta be all things, christian, jewish, muslim, and so on. that's only my opinion, and you can disagree with that too! But to an extent, that is kinda of an ideology, because it's a belief, value and theory that reality is all infinite, when it could easily not be as @Caterpillar said, so you're right in saying that and I see where you're coming from.

Paint a beautiful picture of a mountain on a paper, and you call it a painting. The mountain could have different flush of colours like red, blue or green. It could have immense detail and it could have many objects like trees. You can say these are assignments and ideologies but... If you just remove the colours, remove the detail, remove the mountain, remove the objects, remove the assignments... You just get the paper and that's it. So the paper must contain all before it became a painting of a mountain. 

But I'm just saying, if I include all things, I include the whole universe. The painting of the mountain can't be a painting without the colour, the detail, the objects, or everything .

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by B_Naz

[exhale]

Thanks for the interesting discussion

[RichardY]

No, non duality is not an ideology. Religion; as I think I remember Leo saying, is making an Ideology out of non-duality.

[Brittany]

Yes and No.

Non-duality written and spoken is an ideology. 

If you read about non-duality in a book, it's ideology.

If you watch non-duality concepts in a video, it is ideology.

 Once translated into words, it's ideology.

But non-duality as a personal experience is not an ideology though.

That's why spiritual teachers keep pointing people with riddles and telling them to be silent. 

Language and Words corrupt it

Edited August 24, 2018 by Brittany

[RichardY]

Anyone who runs is a VC, anyone who stands still is a well disciplined VC.

 

 

[Brittany]

Language/Words/Speaking/Writing = Ideology

Witnessing/Experiencing = Not Ideology

[RichardY]

@Brittany Being Ideological......is there any opt out clause, to live non ideologically...... Otherwise might as well ape it all.

[Leo Gura]

I see you guys are not actually contemplating what ideology is.

Ideology is NOT the entire domain of thought!

One can think and conceptualize without being ideological about it.

Be careful with lumping all thought and speech into ideology, as if there is only nonduality or ideology.

[Joseph Maynor]

No.  Non-duality is all you.

[Brittany]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I see you guys are not actually contemplating what ideology is.

Ideology is NOT the entire domain of thought!

One can think and conceptualize without being ideological about it.

Be careful with lumping all thought and speech into ideology, as if there is only nonduality or ideology.

I don't think I understand what an ideology is then.

What is an example of a thought that is not an ideology?

How is it possible for a thought to not be an idea? My mind is spinning in circles on this.