No one can be enlightened

[Stoica Doru]

It just came to mind, as I'm sitting in a flowing meditative state, that claiming that you are enlightened it's a paradox. There's no such thing as being enlightened, that quality doesn't even exist. What it happens is that Reality, God fully dissolves the ego, hence there's no one there to be enlightened.

Instead of claiming that someone is enlightened we should say that Source has filled that conglomerate of flesh and bones we usually call "human".
Source cannot be described using our tiny perceptions and language, therefore It just shines and exists, destroying with love everything it gets to permiate. There are no enlightened beings, there are just humans who gave up or are giving up their humanity, in one intensity or another, to let God spread its presence within themselves and, consequently, to "others". 

If you claim you are enlightened, then you are not. Once "you" get to enlightenment, you'll see that there was no one there all along and that you can't hold enlightenment as something of your own, because it's something that transcends everything and by that time you won't even exist anymore.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Stoica Doru

[Saumaya]

@Stoica Doru After enlightenment, you can say whatever you want. Internally you know that no one is enlightened. If someone claims they are enlightened, it doesn't mean they are not "enlightened".

[Talkawuer]

I think there are varying degrees of enlightenment, just like stages. For instance on this video people are just having ecstatic enlightenment moments. Can we say they're enlightened beings, well i don't think so.

 

[Rilles]

I think calling someone enlightened is just a simple way of communicating with people who arent. 

[MrDmitriiV]

@Stoica Doru @Rilles@Saumaya

 Don't speak about enlightenment if you never achieved it. 

There's no right away to talk about enlightenment, because using language means using symbols. Thus, you trying to find the "right" way of talking about enlightenment, is like trying to prove the map is the territory, which is completely absurd.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[Nahm]

@Stoica Doru There’s no paradox. It hinges on you. If you are not enlightened, no one is. If “you” are enlightened, it is immediately revealed to you that everyone else already was, always has been, and always will be.

[Nahm]

@MrDmitriiV lol. The map is the territory, too.

(Nondual humor in hopes of a nondual laugh)

[MrDmitriiV]

@Nahm I see your point, and I did laugh! But I guess it's too deep for most folks to understand  

(illusion is part of infinity as well)

Edited August 23, 2018 by MrDmitriiV

[NoSelfSelf]

Enlightement is understanding of who you are in direct experience so if you are aware who you are you are enligtened but thats a language we are playing language game here

[Stoica Doru]

@MrDmitriiV You totally missed the point. No one can achieve enlightenment, because there's no one to achieve it. Stop personalizing it. I had a few mystical experiences along the way, along with telepathy, and had moments when I saw God in everything, the tags completely vanishing from reality, but they weren't mine, as an "I" couldn't exist at that time. I couldn't point to anything, my body completely disappearing. "I" have moments when I can't think, basically, melting within the room and the environment. But, see, when we aimlessly talk about it and personalizing it we create a spiritual ego trying to identify with the experience. It's a trap, but a necessity, in our journey towards zooming out more and more into infinity. 

[Saumaya]

10 hours ago, MrDmitriiV said:

@Stoica Doru @Rilles@Saumaya

 Don't speak about enlightenment if you never achieved it. 

There's no right away to talk about enlightenment, because using language means using symbols. Thus, you trying to find the "right" way of talking about enlightenment, is like trying to prove the map is the territory, which is completely absurd.

 

The destination cannot be communicated but the path can be communicated

[MrDmitriiV]

2 hours ago, Stoica Doru said:

@MrDmitriiV You totally missed the point. No one can achieve enlightenment, because there's no one to achieve it. Stop personalizing it. I had a few mystical experiences along the way, along with telepathy, and had moments when I saw God in everything, the tags completely vanishing from reality, but they weren't mine, as an "I" couldn't exist at that time. I couldn't point to anything, my body completely disappearing. "I" have moments when I can't think, basically, melting within the room and the environment. But, see, when we aimlessly talk about it and personalizing it we create a spiritual ego trying to identify with the experience. It's a trap, but a necessity, in our journey towards zooming out more and more into infinity. 

You keep trying to express the "right" way of talking about Enlightenment. I can almost guarantee you're a stage Green soy-boy (based on your photo and your anti-men feminist quote) trying to get attention, like a lot of other guys on this forum. 

Do not confuse the map for the territory. "No one" is a concept. "Enlightenment" is a concept. "Achieve" is a concept. There's no better "concept" to express Enlightenment (another concept for the non-enlightened mind). 

Instead of wasting time trying to conceptualize something which is the opposite of concept, you better work (as @Saumaya said) on your path towards the destination, not the destination.

 

[Dogsbestfriend]

@MrDmitriiV Are you enlightened? You speak with such certainty and judgement. Don't you think your message would be better received if you delivered it from a place of compassion and understanding instead? 

[MrDmitriiV]

@Dogsbestfriend Since then spreading the truth isn't compassion, even if it hurts for the receiver to accept it?

Or should I feed their egos poison which tastes like honey? 

[Leo Gura]

@Stoica Doru Semantic pettiness.

You assume that to be enlightened is something the ego-self acquires. Which is of course a false assumption. Just stop assuming that. You were told from the very beginning that you are an illusion.

I don't understand people who learn this and then start to exclaim that you cannot be enlightened.

To say that you became enlightened never meant that ego acquired enlightenment. It always meant that ego dissolved and empitness dawned. That is what becoming enlightened means.

Why quibble over something so obvious?

[Arkandeus]

indeed, all one is enlightened!

[Stoica Doru]

@Dogsbestfriend @MrDmitriiV@Leo GuraI'm not trying to speak the "right" way about enlightenment. That shit doesn't exist. I kind of like semantics, because I write poems from time to time, so I can afford this luxury, but just because you try to grasp a phenomenon of existence better, it doesn't mean that you destroy it (never said that the ego acquires enlightenment, I wanted to point just this trap). That quote isn't a feminist one, it's about the whole human uncounciousness that turns our inventions against ourselves and it's from the Seven Days War song. I have a little bit of green, but I'm mostly yellow heading towards turquoise, with some turquoise characteristics (from what I've self-inquired and been aware of). And concerning my profile picture, well, I'm sorry, but police officers tend to look good and I'm suffering from this condition (insert reply that I'm in an arrogant ego), but at least I don't get ideological in my arguments about enlightenment, judging people I've never met or talked with in privately. If you want to preach about enlightenment, you should get over this ideological stereotype that looks always matter, imprisoning people in paradigms of the past, which are stupidly taken for granted. Even a porn star can become enlightened. Deal with it, master. Fap, Fap, indeed - a useless chatter, yapping to be more precise. 

[MrDmitriiV]

@Stoica Doru Only stage Green/Blue would write an entire paragraph of random & unstructured mind-chatter just to justify his ego in front of others, instead of focusing on the highlighted points in this post as stage Yellow would do.

 

[MiracleMan]

On 8/23/2018 at 7:36 AM, Stoica Doru said:

It just came to mind, as I'm sitting in a flowing meditative state, that claiming that you are enlightened it's a paradox. There's no such thing as being enlightened, that quality doesn't even exist. What it happens is that Reality, God fully dissolves the ego, hence there's no one there to be enlightened.

Instead of claiming that someone is enlightened we should say that Source has filled that conglomerate of flesh and bones we usually call "human".
Source cannot be described using our tiny perceptions and language, therefore It just shines and exists, destroying with love everything it gets to permiate. There are no enlightened beings, there are just humans who gave up or are giving up their humanity, in one intensity or another, to let God spread its presence within themselves and, consequently, to "others". 

If you claim you are enlightened, then you are not. Once "you" get to enlightenment, you'll see that there was no one there all along and that you can't hold enlightenment as something of your own, because it's something that transcends everything and by that time you won't even exist anymore.

 

❤

[MiracleMan]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Stoica Doru Semantic pettiness.

You assume that to be enlightened is something the ego-self acquires. Which is of course a false assumption. Just stop assuming that. You were told from the very beginning that you are an illusion.

I don't understand people who learn this and then start to exclaim that you cannot be enlightened.

To say that you became enlightened never meant that ego acquired enlightenment. It always meant that ego dissolved and empitness dawned. That is what becoming enlightened means.

Why quibble over something so obvious?

In my opinion you guys are in total agreement, just seeing it from a different point of view.

From what I read I didn't interpret it as meaning that enlightenment isnt real, possible, or fake.

It's the individual really believes it can understand the all.  A piece believes it can be greater than the whole.  The realization is the whole, total, no one ever was and ever shall be.

Maybe it is a bit of semantics to say no one is enlightened, but it kind of has a ring to it!  Who is enlightened and who isnt? Nobody knows or ever could!!! (And by God I've fallen flat on my face in the conviction of others and their claims!)

And @Nahm, such a great post.  The apparent internal conflict is projected outward, the world I see of pain is false, because it's my own conflict projected outward.  I created this world of madness.  The greatest evidence I see for this is joy, when another experiences love or joy they clearly dont see my own personal hell, therefore the world cannot be as it appears to me alone.

To be free of that conflict, the projection falls away, nothing remains, and the world is truly seen for what it is.  And the concession is I dont know, when I say I understand you, I dont really know for sure, when I look at a tree, I dont really know what I'm looking at.  I dont know what 'this' is, and a lot of my suffering comes from apparent knowledge, because of my arrogance I think I know what this is, have control, can influence reality, when in truth, I've never left a mark.

Edited August 24, 2018 by MiracleMan