It's an absurd the policies of some Vipassana centers

[Forestluv]

@brugluiz I noticed the center offers 10 day retreats for old men and another for old women. What do you think of having a 10 day retreat tailored for people with mental illness?

[Recursoinominado]

Just now, brugluiz said:

As I said before, if you're psychotic, you shouldn't go to a meditation center. But many people with mental disorder background don't get psychotic anymore. Many of them passed through a process of healing which psychosis was part of it.

Even if they are having problem with such "neurotic" people, it's possible to take measures in order to include them, and not to exclude.

According to this article https://psychoticbuddha.blogspot.com/2013/01/psychosis-and-buddhist-retreats-back-in.html?m=1 there are retreats that are accepting people with mental disorder background. And it seems they don't ask if you have a mental disorder background, but just if you can meditate for long periods of time.

That's the point they should investigate, the capacity of a person to meditate for long periods of time, and not if she has a mental disorder background.

Bro, did you complete one of those retreats? I consider myself a pretty stable guy due to acquired existential wisdom and i thought i was going to lost my mind on my first retreat, it was hell, i was confronted with lots of deep-rooted issues and there was no place to escape, absolutely no distraction and i was pretty aware of way i was going through that but most people aren't, it is easy to project the hell out of your traumas in this state. They have to protect themselves, they do not do any sort of background check, the staff is only normal people volunteering, all they have to get some sort of notion of you is what you write about yourself. 

[brugluiz]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@brugluiz I noticed the center offers 10 day retreats for old men and another for old women. What do you think of having a 10 day retreat tailored for people with mental illness?

It seems to be a good idea. It's just important to understand that people that are passing through a process of psychosis may not be able to attend this course (if a person is passing through a spiritual crisis, it's recommended to stop her spiritual practices).

It's also important to understand that, if the person with mental disorder background feels she can face a normal ten-day retreat, the doors are open and she can apply to it.

14 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

Bro, did you complete one of those retreats? I consider myself a pretty stable guy due to acquired existential wisdom and i thought i was going to lost my mind on my first retreat, it was hell, i was confronted with lots of deep-rooted issues and there was no place to escape, absolutely no distraction and i was pretty aware of way i was going through that but most people aren't, it is easy to project the hell out of your traumas in this state. They have to protect themselves, they do not do any sort of background check, the staff is only normal people volunteering, all they have to get some sort of notion of you is what you write about yourself. 

Do not underestimate the capacity of a person with a mental disorder background. I haven't gone to a Vipassana retreat yet, but I'm quite positive that I can do it one day. By the way, there are people who were diagnosed with bipolar and schizophrenia who did a ten-day retreat.

An altered state of consciousness is not supposed to make you weaker, but to make you stronger.

I understand they have to protect themselves, but it seems they are protecting themselves due to lack of information.

Edited August 24, 2018 by brugluiz

[Recursoinominado]

Just now, brugluiz said:

Do not underestimate the capacity of a person with a mental disorder background. I haven't gone to a Vipassana retreat yet, but I'm quite positive that I can do it one day. By the way, there are people who say with bipolar and schizophrenia who did a ten-day retreat.

An altered state of consciousness is not supposed to make weaker, but to make you stronger.

 

I did not said that mental disorders background would make it impossible to complete the retreat, i said that it's understandable that the vipassana organization tries to protect itself from possible trouble. Even if its only one or less percent, a lot of people sit on those retreats and the changes of one of those have a mental breakdown aren't insignificant end they better account for that because one person can shut down a center (like the story i told about the sedatives in the water) and lots of people in need will be affected by it. 

[brugluiz]

15 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

I did not said that mental disorders background would make it impossible to complete the retreat, i said that it's understandable that the vipassana organization tries to protect itself from possible trouble. Even if its only one or less percent, a lot of people sit on those retreats and the changes of one of those have a mental breakdown aren't insignificant end they better account for that because one person can shut down a center (like the story i told about the sedatives in the water) and lots of people in need will be affected by it. 

Sorry for understanding you wrong.

Anyone can have a psychotic break, not just the ones who have a mental disorder background. It still seems to be a lack of understanding of the staff people and they blame people with mental disorder background.

Or don't you think it's odd that many people who went to ten-day retreat came back to their homes experiencing mental "problems"? Why do you think that there are people who experience psychosis after or even during a ten-day retreat? Why do you think that even Leo has a video explaining the dark side of meditation?

It's not because these people have bad genes or they're having altered states of consciousness due to a chemical unbalance in their brains, but because the suffering they pass through is part of their healing. The ones passing through a psychosis or mental "problem" may be experiencing a spiritual emergency. It's not supposed to be viewed as a bad thing, but as a good thing.

[Recursoinominado]

16 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

Sorry for understanding you wrong.

Anyone can have a psychotic break, not just the ones who have a mental disorder background. It still seems to be a lack of understanding of the staff people and they blame people with mental disorder background.

Or don't you think it's odd that many people who went to ten-day retreat came back to their homes experiencing mental "problems"? Why do you think that there are people who experience psychosis after or even during a ten-day retreat? Why do you think that even Leo has a video explaining the dark side of meditation?

It's not because these people have bad genes or they're having altered states of consciousness due to a chemical unbalance in their brains, but because the suffering they pass through is part of their healing. The ones passing through a psychosis or mental "problem" may be experiencing a spiritual emergency. It's not supposed to be viewed as a bad thing, but as a good thing.

They can't help with anything other than the vipassana technique, the standard answer for any question (even if you said you got enlightened and needed to talk to someone) is: let it go and just focus on your sensations. 
Believe me, i was going through an extremely rough time, i threw some large amounts of gasoline in my kundalini fire and i didn't know what the fuck was going on, i suppose to feel better after the retreat but i was way worse and no one had any answers besides ignore and continue to meditate. Only several months later i learned about kundalini awakenings and what to do about it, with my own research. Yes, i would love to have some guidance there but i think people put a lot of expectations on the teachers, they might not know much other than the technique. We are in a privileged space with privileged information, most people, even spiritual teachers don't know most of what is discussed here. And i forgot to say that i have a mental disorder history and i simply didn't tell them and that was it. If you are positive that it is in the past, nobody needs to know

[brugluiz]

19 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

They can't help with anything other than the vipassana technique, the standard answer for any question (even if you said you got enlightened and needed to talk to someone) is: let it go and just focus on your sensations. 
Believe me, i was going through an extremely rough time, i threw some large amounts of gasoline in my kundalini fire and i didn't know what the fuck was going on, i suppose to feel better after the retreat but i was way worse and no one had any answers besides ignore and continue to meditate. Only several months later i learned about kundalini awakenings and what to do about it, with my own research. Yes, i would love to have some guidance there but i think people put a lot of expectations on the teachers, they might not know much other than the technique. We are in a privileged space with privileged information, most people, even spiritual teachers don't know most of what is discussed here. And i forgot to say that i have a mental disorder history and i simply didn't tell them and that was it. If you are positive that it is in the past, nobody needs to know

But I'm not demanding guidance. Many answers are inside of us. They can simply understand and accept people with mental disorders. I hope you take the big picture of what I'm saying. I'm advocating for understanding, and not for guidance.

Anyway, it's good to hear that you did a good work with your kundalini awakening. I read some stuff about it and I think it may have some relationship with my anomalous experiences during psychosis.

Edited August 24, 2018 by brugluiz