Disidentifying

[robdl]

1 hour ago, Jack River said:

Right. Cool thing is when this desire to control comes up we can see that is also fear moving as well. You would think fear is a every now and then thing. But if observed it is present but we just don’t see it. 

Indeed.  

Sometimes I feel like “fear” can be a bit of a limiting term.  Because the “fear” thoughts you and I are referring to include not just the state of worry or trepidation or being afraid (which is how some may narrowly define it), but also the sense of insecurity (breeding desire to control) and resistance; aversion; escape from what-is. If we think of fear in this broader, subtler sense, then we may be more sensitive to its action.

Edited August 25, 2018 by robdl

[Jack River]

3 hours ago, robdl said:

Indeed.  

Sometimes I feel like “fear” can be a bit of a limiting term.  Because the “fear” thoughts you and I are referring to include not just the state of worry or trepidation or being afraid (which is how some may narrowly define it), but also the sense of insecurity (breeding desire to control) and resistance; aversion; escape from what-is. If we think of fear in this broader, subtler sense, then we may be more sensitive to its action.

I know man. When faceless told me to be aware of what he calls subtle fears that is what he meant. I didn’t really see how fear was camouflaged. Just as you said dude, I had a narrow view of fear. The first week of being aware of fear or identitying fear I was overhelmed because fear was involved in every movemt or action in my daily life. Still is but I don’t keep feeding it. But yeah it seems fear is at the root of most peoples experinces. Especially if there is no awareness of this. Thats why I am so blown away about this. It’s so crucial brah. I really appreciate your guys showing me how to see myself clearer. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Jack River

[who chit]

There will come a time when "observing" will end. There will only be Being,Nothingness,and/or, Isness left. Contemplation will be for contemplation's sake. A kind of learning in silence,for learning's sake. No other reason.The Inquiring of a question,letting it go into silence,and then waiting.

If you've ever watched someone like Rupert,Osho ,Tolle,Krishnamurti etc.,,this is what's going on. There is a question from someone,and then there is the waiting,the gap of  silence,and then they will answer. That answer is coming out of the emptiness and silence of the Absolute. Not  "learned" or retained knowledge. What the Absolute gives them, is the answer they give.

This is the same when inquiring/contemplating. That silence/emptiness in which to inquire,has to be there,otherwise it's untrue or "colored" knowledge.

Edited August 25, 2018 by who chit

[Ingit]

@Jack River am I not seperate from fear??? Whenever I try to observe it, I feel bit uneasy and worried

[Ingit]

@Jack River FEAR...holds me... My thoughts fear me !!! I work hard on myself so much observing but end up being stressed maybe I dont have a proper grasp of the understanding of observation. i tend to fear during daily observation but not during meditation 

[who chit]

Observation or ,holistic observation, needs to take place from a space of awareness separate from thought, so the whole movement can be seen without getting involved or attached. If there's deep involvement or attachment to the body-mind (I-thought),there won't be enough separation in order to observe it holistically . It'll be thought observing thought, and that's not complete/whole observation or seeing.

You can develop that empty awareness and/or "witness", through different meditation techniques with consistent practice.They're primary purpose/ use as a tool, is to bring the body-mind to a state of inner silence/empty awareness. This gradually builds to become a regular part of your inner state so you can observe the body-mind free from attachment.

You can also try "natural noticing",where you just simply notice thoughts as they pass without trying to do anything or interfere with them.Like clouds moving across the sky. The sky doesn't try to do anything,it just allows the clouds to pass. If you want, you can also use that as a "light meditation". It's much less involved than the one above.

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by who chit

[Ingit]

@who chit maybe I haven’t developed that skill yet and as you said I might be doing thought for thought observation... Meditating from previous one and a half month continously....

[who chit]

The empty awareness/witness development practices would be considered more of a "spiritual practice". They're more strict and disciplined. Your going after realization or "enlightenment" with those type of practices.

The other one,and ones similar, is for reducing stress/calming the mind so that too much thinking doesn't consume your life. You can let them go easier.

[Ingit]

@who chit IM not on the path of Englightment because I’m a student but I just want to know about my mind and the root of the negative thinking and doubt with all my personal development knowledge

[who chit]

The personal development stuff I'm not too familiar with. The only one's I can think of that might be somewhere in that category would be David Hawkins "letting go" or Tolle's Power of Now. You could try checking those out. Or maybe one of the bazillion meditation apps out there,lol.

[who chit]

Oh and maybe Byron Katie. Not too familiar with it but I've heard pretty good things about it.

Edited August 25, 2018 by who chit

[who chit]

2 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Fear trying to escape itself by study 'self development' 

Can't you see how all this is connected? 

This is what I was getting at with the difference in spiritual or Truth path and just personal self development. There's alot of people who aren't on the quest for realization. Deeply observing the movements of fear and all of it's aspects,takes a lot of commitment and involvement that some aren't ready to take on yet. That's a different ball game to the personal development path.

The other is going for personal un-development,imo.

[who chit]

1 minute ago, Feel Good said:

@who chit Yes, i don't see the point of self development 

You're on a different life path. The Truth path is something you have to be ready for. It's not a walk in the park. And for someone who's not ready for it,it can have significant consequences. You do realize eliminating the root/whole movement of fear is eliminating the I-thought/ego. The whole structure that roughly 98% of the world operates on. It's not something to take lightly.

[who chit]

If you want to compare Truth to self development,look at the difference between a Tony Robbins and Krishnamurti or Osho. That will give you an idea of the vast difference.

[who chit]

4 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

You're complicating it with a story.

There is no ego to develop..

Lol. You don't think I already know this,experentially, and not theoretically?  That's why I know the difference. Parroting "there is no ego",and "the story" anybody can do. If you're speaking from experience you should know the difference.

[who chit]

4 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

These comparisons are not real..they are delusions projected by being in egoic consciousness. 

Once you drop the separate self sense you laugh at how stupid you have been and that everything there is at your disposal to live life. Negative thoughts go away on their own. Relationship begins. 

 

This right here is how I know you're not speaking from experience. Check into all this theory you've been collecting,it's not going to do you any good other than to try and sound like "I've been there done that". Just more delusion that won't get you anywhere.

[who chit]

There's no reason to leave. Everyone's learning and we're all here to help each other. But you got to put what you're learning into serious application. Make a serious personal commitment.Only you can realize You.

[who chit]

Well,I hope you come back. No one's here to run people off. You can still learn and enjoy what you're learning.

[Rilles]

@Feel Good What the hell are you on about? Stop monkeying around and go meditate! 

[who chit]

1 minute ago, Feel Good said:

because that method solved some things for me.

Good. Stay and keep learning. This thing is a process and something to be integrated over time. It's not something that's gonna happen in a few months or days. It's gonna take work.