Disidentifying

[who chit]

Well,if I can't talk you out of it I hope you come back soon.

Edited August 25, 2018 by who chit

[Nahm]

@Jack River Creation? I mean, after all, you are the one.

[Faceless]

2 hours ago, who chit said:

This is what I was getting at with the difference in spiritual or Truth path and just personal self development. There's alot of people who aren't on the quest for realization. Deeply observing the movements of fear and all of it's aspects,takes a lot of commitment and involvement that some aren't ready to take on yet. That's a different ball game to the personal development path

@feelgoodThis comes first, the psychological aspect, or to put order in thought. Leaning and Observing of all the subtle movement of thought. First there must be psychological freedom, then one can go beyond. But don’t separate any of this. I see it all as one movement in the unveiling of truth. Personal development when it comes to the psychological realm is self perpetuation. The only thing to develop is the intellect for practical purpose. Once there is complete or psychological order, then thought operates with order. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

7 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

My enlightenment experiences count for nothing

We start psychologically first. 

 

8 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

I'm just confused because I followed faceless and he said self development is more or less a trap

To follow is a psychological dependence. We walk together. To try and develop psychologically is a trap, and feeds the psychological illusion-insecurity itself. Development is for thought. Thoughts operation as a tool to survive and so on. 

[Faceless]

Self-personal development, as in psychological evolution, is to feed the self feeding loop. 

 

When this fear ceases to manifest itself which is one and the same movement of seeking psychological security in time, then thought operates orderly in practical affairs. But thought is not climbed to psychologically. 

[Faceless]

18 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Also self esteem. Now who chit says the opposite. 

Also with self esteem. When this psychological dependence on thought ends, the narrowness of “Self esteem” has no point anymore. Self asteem has nothing on one who is whole. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Feel Good so what’s the problem here, friend? 

 

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

@Faceless who chit is corrupting your teaching 

 

First it’s not “my” teaching” 

and How so? 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

What are some of the conflicting or contradicting things in what he says and what I am saying?

[who chit]

If personal development is taken on from a sense of insecurity,or an "I'm not good enough" paradigm, the root problem,I/ego identification, will continue to manifest. The search to be more will never end. The whole life experience will always be in search for more,instead of being the truth of what you are. To be that,there can be no I/ego identification left to identify with. It has to go. And it's not as simple as people think it's going to be. They will eventually find out if awakening happens,the whole reality they thought they knew,was a sham. And that can be a devastating thing to learn if one isn't ready for it. And really, there is no way to be ready for it. The real test of ones commitment to the process will show just how deep the conditioning goes. And It's not all a path of fun and good times.

Personal development can  be done with a "healthy" ego,which I think is what a majority of those into it,are looking for. Not the realization of Truth. That is whole different game,and I don't think those who are into personal development realize what they're getting into. If they get in deep enough they will find out.

Edited August 25, 2018 by who chit

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, who chit said:

If personal development is taken on from a sense of insecurity,or an "I'm not good enough" paradigm, the root problem,I/ego identification, will continue to manifest

 First off good morning friend,??

 

As said above, indeed, Fear is then in motion. 

3 minutes ago, who chit said:

And that can be a devastating thing to find out if one isn't ready for it.

Fear self will never “be ready” for this. Fear self procrastinates complete action. There is no preparation or gradual process to end this movement of time. This implies perpetual sustainment of division, which implies conflict, contradiction, or continuous incomplete action. 

 

9 minutes ago, who chit said:

And really, there is no way to be ready for it. The real test of ones commitment to the process will show just how deep the conditioning goes. And It's not all a path of fun and good times.

This fear must cease to influence action, which is why there must be total freedom first. Freedom without reaction-action of this self-fear is essential. With that there is total feeedom to explore into the unknown. 

[Faceless]

14 minutes ago, who chit said:

Personal development can  be done with a "healthy" ego,which I think is what a majority of those into it,are looking for. Not the realization of Truth.

I agree. Personal development is a building upon fear, or utilization of fear to attain certain goals. But when it comes down to it, as long as fear is in movement so will be incomplete action(contradiction, confusion, conflict) perhaps further down the road. 

14 minutes ago, who chit said:

That is whole different game,and I don't think those who are into personal development realize what they're getting into. If they get in deep enough they will find out.

I agree. To me being g on this “psychological growth or personal development path” there will always be a block to wholeness. 

[Faceless]

6 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Stop projecting your assumptions onto my words. I don't see you as my teacher. Not do I see Leo as my teacher.

You're treating me like a love struck teenager looking for a guru.

I already said to you how I see this process

I’m just saying that psychological dependence is a movement of fear my friend. Stating that clear on the forum for others. 

When you read what we write you notice that we are just mirroring the inward movement of self thought. To see the movement of the conditioned consciousness. You see what I mean? 

Its not a teaching as in, accumulating new ideas, concepts, and so on, but a mirror to what can be seen in and as the self 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Which is what I mean by this that I posted before....

“This thread is us. 

IT’S NOT OUR MESSAGE TO US, BUT THE MESSAGE IS US. 

The thread mirrors, or is (reflecting back), the stream of consciousness, as (THE SELF-THOUGHT). “

[who chit]

19 minutes ago, Faceless said:

 First off good morning friend,??

 

As said above, indeed, Fear is then in motion. 

Fear self will never “be ready” for this. Fear self procrastinates complete action. There is no preparation or gradual process to end this movement of time. This implies perpetual sustainment of division, which implies conflict, contradiction, or continuous incomplete action. 

 

This fear must cease to influence action, which is why there must be total freedom first. Freedom without reaction-action of this self-fear is essential. With that there is total feeedom to explore into the unknown. 

I agree with all of this.

"there must be total freedom first." This is what's gonna be found out to not be as easy as many assume it will be. "Total freedom" is a destructive process. An emptying out. Not one of personal/egoic enhancement. That's the difference.

Edited August 25, 2018 by who chit

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Feel Good said:

@Faceless

What I am most interest in is why you did not take the liberty of telling me im a delusional parrot when who chit has just informed me of that fact?

You have let  me promote you on the forum while clearly I am delusional and have no forst hand experience of what no self is. 

 

I was not aware that you were delusional. I just saw you as genuinely interested. I have been very careful with what I say and don’t say. I don’t speak about pursing “enlightenment”, and I don’t promote dependence. To me you were doing fine. But most go beyond where they have not yet begun. This is why I stress going ito fear and thought first. Like I have done with @Jack River

[Faceless]

May suggest learning form this experience in relationship. Relationships shows us the fact always. Can you observer fear that causes this confusion? 

Learn from that. 

Traps are always an indication that fear has gone undetected my friend. It’s ok, this is how we learn its subtle forms, and are able to maintain a holistic choicless awareness. 

 

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

So who chit is more trustworthy that you?

I’m sorry my friend, I haven’t been able to keep on the forum and watch your every post. Watch this trust, it can lead people astray. 

[who chit]

@Fee Good: The pointing out was to show the difference between conceptual understanding and direct experience. If one takes the path of Truth seriously,this is something that needs to be known. It's not a calling out to embarrass anyone. Anyone can easily get caught up in the conceptual understanding of it,but the experiential is what's important.

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

@Faceless

What I learned is that who chit is butt hurt and  not being given kudos for his experiences and proceeded to put me down in an effort to feel better. 

Clinging to his experiences and then chastising others for doing the same thing he does himself.

 

I understand my friend, confusion is one and the same movement of fear and anger. What ever you are feeling right now, is common in the stream of consciousness. Take a second, let this fear-anger subside, and we can go into this with a clear thinking. 

Its ok, you are not a fool, and you were not made a fool of. You were doing just fine. Maybe Jumped the gun, a little. So what. We are all in this together my friend. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by Faceless