Can psychopaths feel emotions again?

[brugluiz]

I came from my therapist with a book about psychopathy. I picked the book from the clinic's library.

I still haven't read the book but I took a look at some articles on the internet. My question is: "is it possible I'm a psychopath?"

I'm doing a treatment for schizophrenia and my emotions are blunt. I can't feel many emotions and can't feel a lot of empathy. Of course, I can cry, but many times I cry alone because I don't want people to see me crying.

I'm a bit confused now, because while I question if I'm a psychopath, I wonder why I was able to feel emotions and have empathy when I was a kid. I loved even animals.

Maybe the antipsychotics are making my emotions blunt (I'm still tapering off steadily) and that's why I can't feel a lot of empathy. By the way, after I started taking antipsychotics, many things declined in my life: my emotions, my aliveness and my physical health.

I also feel like a psychopath because I'm still not able to handle a long-term relationship. The longest relationship I had was only for 6 months.

I feel like a crap...

[Strikr]

All I know as an "adhd" with too many thought and mind trap. ( I don't know if adhd is real, but sure I m a big neurotic )

 ( every word could trigger in my mind a story ) put me out of reality. I did that almost my whole life ( loose my "reality" and be full in my thought / imagery ) people call me dreamy.

 I think I experienced skyzophrénia on LSD ( hearing voice in air who wasn't here, having imagery poping in my brain for no reason ( like anime picture ), then I draw from full instinct ) it's like I overpowered my instinct ( as an artist ) maybe even too much to the point I couldn't draw "straight build", it was abstract and very messy

I did Ritalin 1 year, it's the contrary of lysergic acid on the perception of pattern ( makes you not see any pattern in things ). Put down your "instinct"/mind recognition pattern to "death". Can induce problem, but I will not advocate against. ( maybe that should only taken sporadically in a "big case" ; because of health problem it induce ) 

For me it could have helped, because of self reflection while on it ( what does it change in me, why, etc.. ) so maybe drug is a band aid solution, but the end work is to integrate what drug teach you.

It's still impossible "to work" capitalist without drug for me ( weed a tons pls ), I contemplate everything or play stupid video games while sober ( try to read, but after 5 pages I lost ALL my focus )

all I can tell is that it took away most of my instinctive pattern emotion recognition ( the antipsychotic ritalin ). ( sometimes it can be good, but not for making music, as it is an emotional flow trigging adventure ) makes me super engineering things to the point of insane stupidity though ( couldn't be aware of me tweaking endlessly a bass, and forgeting the whole picture )

drug can be good, and worst, I was craving for ritaline the 2 first days, but weed helped with that ( but I read that weed makes fucked skyzophrénic people )

I would tell you to take the less antipsycho that you can and take it when you really feel that you need it.. ( for a crisis or something )

why do you cry ? I never cry since 4 years ( am I dead ? ), I wish I could... only crisis dread took me last month, only because a philosophical thought pass into my mind ( probably because of realisation on LSD ) and makes me realize that nothing fucking matter. LSD doesn't cured my ego, it convinced my nihilistic view

I guess everyone doesn't react well to drug depending the context. be careful with your use, but as I don't know you, use drug if inside you, you really feel you need them.

you can't be a psychopath if you liked animals ( I suppose )

it's a brain problem psychopaty ( I read about ) you are already without feeling like everyone else at 5 when you're a real psychopath ( in the brain ), you probably live on a nihilistic view on life ( like me ) / or apathetic philsosophy kind of.

I don't believe any humans are equal, it's a fact, and a delusion to believe everyone can learn the same things, understand the same.

so I wish I could help, but most of the solutions should be integrated by you, depending where you are. No one can really understand you, this is probably why you feel bad ?

6 month it's fucking long against me

 I m 24 and never had a single relationship, even if girl look for me ( I m beautiful ), I m insanely weird though and rude ( INTP ), and don't supporte people on a basic, I can act and play my role and get sex if really I would, but I like having this metaphysical mystery ( I fear to lose hope for my life If there is no meaning in sex ) ( yes I stupid thought )

 but my mind trick me to leave girls before I do it each times. ( I hate social speech, I m addicted to learning and meta speeching / talking art/science ) I forget about relationship, hope destiny will help me on this. I want something that looks like true love and not an artificial relationship.

 

you'll feel like crap for many times if you did drug for a long run, ( like 2 month if you take it more than 4 years ) 1 month if you take it 1 year. ( kind of ) depend of a lot of things though can't tell, depend on the whole context (health, sleep, dosage .. etc. )

it depend, get healthy food, try to sleep well, listen relaxing music ( psytrance for me when I start feeling bad ) keep using your drug, and use it the less that you can.. if you can.

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Strikr

[brugluiz]

Hi, @Strikr! Thank you for your answer. I hope you get better of your ADHD. Maybe meditation can help you.

Recently, I lost my best friend (he attempted suicide) and I cried a lot. When my dog died around 1 year ago, I also cried. Maybe I'm too sensitive.

I think drugs are good when used the right way. Nowadays, psychiatrists put people on high amount of drugs with no reason.

I'm tapering off antipsychotics because I think I don't need them anymore, but, if I have a psychotic crisis again, I will take it (but probably with a low dose).

The idea that no one can understand me makes sense. As Leo says, we're alone.

[Strikr]

sorry for your loss, really. wish I could help every human being...

 

 I had a theory while writting, but I think on the contrary we was "iperemotional" but suffering was so intense for taking all this feeling in, we start to mindfuck ourself and kill our emotion straightly ( and young ) ( started nurture & avoid our emotion ( not the bad thought, but the emotion ) ) / could be something like your parent giving you the idea ( "ignore them" ) because people call you by a name when you're a child for instance.

 but if you take seriously this kind idea, it can makes you maybe emotion apathic. It's only a theory

( because they was the emotion was a cause of our suffering ) we control it or kill it ( with drug, with philosophy, anything is good to kill it ), we fight it at the source ( this is almost a reason why you're on this forum today ) one of the reason ( avoid suffering )

and of course drug that you take, increase this feeling of being ' dead ' this is exactly their goal. Killing your feeling.

 

You're not that alone, we are the weirdo happy family. Be happy and don't eat the psychiatric propaganda and delusion for truthness

they see the world from a perspective, they don't even want to destroy you, it's just their nature to stabilize the system ( this is what I want to believe )

yes tape "slowly" and takes the minimal to have no side effect from withdrawal.

wish you the best, take care brother, if you feel bad don't hesitate to pm me

Edited August 20, 2018 by Strikr

[brugluiz]

1 hour ago, Strikr said:

sorry for your loss, really. wish I could help every human being...

 

 I had a theory while writting, but I think on the contrary we was "iperemotional" but suffering was so intense for taking all this feeling in, we start to mindfuck ourself and kill our emotion straightly ( and young ) ( started nurture & avoid our emotion ( not the bad thought, but the emotion ) ) / could be something like your parent giving you the idea ( "ignore them" ) because people call you by a name when you're a child for instance.

 but if you take seriously this kind idea, it can makes you maybe emotion apathic. It's only a theory

( because they was the emotion was a cause of our suffering ) we control it or kill it ( with drug, with philosophy, anything is good to kill it ), we fight it at the source ( this is almost a reason why you're on this forum today ) one of the reason ( avoid suffering )

and of course drug that you take, increase this feeling of being ' dead ' this is exactly their goal. Killing your feeling.

 

You're not that alone, we are the weirdo happy family. Be happy and don't eat the psychiatric propaganda and delusion for truthness

they see the world from a perspective, they don't even want to destroy you, it's just their nature to stabilize the system ( this is what I want to believe )

yes tape "slowly" and takes the minimal to have no side effect from withdrawal.

wish you the best, take care brother, if you feel bad don't hesitate to pm me

Your theory makes sense. One year before being hospitalized in a psychiatric institution, I started avoiding my emotions. I kind promised to me that I would never feel anything again. Before that, I was feeling really depressed and crying a lot. I usually felt depressed, but I didn't have suicidal thoughts. The ability I had of just crying whenever I want helped me with that. Anyway, I started to repress my emotions in order to people see that I was a strong man. I also wanted a girl to love me and, if I showed her my emotions, it would mean that I was weak. In those days, I wanted a girlfriend so hard, but I didn't understand that, before having a partner, I needed to accept myself.

Nowadays, I see the importance of staying connected with my emotions, but I'm still afraid that it makes me less of a man. Even my therapist told me that men should not be so sensitive.

Maybe I'm moving from Orange to Green. I don't know. Even if I'm too sensitive, I'm learning with that.

What's curious is that I opened a thread about psychopathy and, in fact, I'm realizing I have many emotions (from sadness and fear to happiness and anger). It seems it's not very common for psychopaths to feel anything.

But I still need to learn how to deal with my emotions and express them. A lot of my empathy issues is because I don't express my emotions. If another person is sad, I can feel it, but I won't express. I have fear of just saying: "hey, I realized you seem to be sad. Are you okay? May I help you with something?" or "hey, you seem to be happier! By the way, your beard is awesome!" Sometimes I just realize I can express such things when it's too late.

Maybe it's just a matter of developing social skills.

[brugluiz]

Thank you for being available, @Strikr! You're such a good soul!

[lmfao]

@brugluiz I don't think you're a psychopath. Low empathy doesn't mean you're a psychopath, idk if you are a sociopath or not. I've read a fair number of comments and answers written by psychopaths and sociopaths on quora. When these people are answering questions online there's no incentive lie. There are many psychopaths and sociopaths on online forums who argue that the mainstream understanding of sociopaths and psychopaths (even amongst a few experts) is incorrect since this understanding revolves around the psychopaths that commit crime, when many do not.

You sound like an anxious and depressed person who has repressed emotion rather than no emotion. Psychopaths experience very very little fear, remorse, anxiety and sadness. Psychopathy is something people are born with. Here's a copy and paste answer a psychopath gave to a person who asked "Can psychopaths feel sadness?". I'm going to put it in a quote box. 

7 hours ago, brugluiz said:

@Strikr

The way to understand psychopathic emotional cues is much like the volume knob of a radio. Neurotypicals have theirs set at varying degrees of volume, but generally it is set above seven or an eight out of ten. In a psychopathic brain that volume knob is at zero. We don't have any background noise from emotions that say, pay attention to me, I'm important. What we have instead is nothing in its place. When given the right circumstances, especially in the instance of self preservation, there are responses. They are not at seven or eight on the scale as they would be for a neurotypical, they are now around one to three. We can tell there is something there and how much we decide it is important is how much it will rate on our volume indicator.

If it concerns our personal experience, such as a pain stimuli, and we are coaxed to pay attention to that stimuli, it can register. Instead of it sticking in our minds for further use, once another focus is introduced it is once again ignored. We can learn cognitive empathy, meaning we can observe emotions in others and respond with appropriate, albeit hollow responses, but learning to focus on these things for a short time is not a lasting lesson. It does not change who or what we are. We can behave differently, but our ability to learn cues is completely hampered by the lack of connectivity, or lack of structural integrity of the sections of our brains that are responsible for such things.

So, for the psychopathic community it puts another misconception on our heads making us seem even more callous and cruel than we are. That we have the emotions, and access to them, and choose to ignore it. Not the case.

There is a theory put forward by Professor Joseph Newman, in which he speaks about these experiences in a way that more neurotypicals tend to understand. He calls it his, Attention Theory. He speaks about this theory in the quote below, stating that he has a clear understanding of the emotional deficits in psychopaths, and sums it up this way.

"Let me be clear about one thing, is that some people look at my attention theory and think that I'm denying that there's a emotion deficit in psychopaths, but that's not the case. I mean their emotion deficit is what really does distinguishes them from other criminals. And so, where does that come from? Are they really incapable of fear, or is it a matter of attention. And in order to really answer that question you have to do well controlled experiments in the laboratory, is my view of it. The way you can do the is you can present threatening information, information that means they have to inhibit a response or they're going to be punished. And you can look at their ability to learn that inhibition under different conditions. What we have done over the years is if the threat cues are something they are paying attention to, then they show that they care about it. They're motivated to learn about those cues and they'll inhibit behavior and regulate behavior quite well. But if you redirect their attention, if you get them focused on getting some reward and then periodically if they do the wrong thing, you also punish them, now you've set up a division where the threat cues, or the emotion related cues are peripheral to what they're focusing on and that's where they look deficient."

We process the world in a very different way. We don’t feel as neurotypicals feel, we have our own experience that dictates our understanding of emotions. While we can make adjustments based on what we observe and what we wish to have happen, versus what we would prefer not to have happen, we can’t participate in your feelings of fear, dread, sadness, grief, or anything of that sort.

I hope that answers your question.

EDIT: For the record, the question asked is the opposite of what we experience. We don’t feel the unpleasant emotions, but have no issues with things like excitement, enjoyment, and other such things. We don’t feel depression, sadness, fear, anxiety, have suicidal ideations, feel remorse, bond, or have empathy.

This answer here is pretty informative about being a sociopath and psychopath https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-biggest-difference-between-a-psychopath-and-a-sociopath?no_redirect=1

 

I suppose telling you that you aren't a psychopath hasn't really fixed anything about your situation lol. So you say that you don't feel much emotion and empathy. I know that I have similar problems for myself. For me I realised that it doesn't matter what labels (autistic or sociopathic) I put on myself to explain why I feel the way I do, as I feel the labels are a distraction from taking the action needed (meditation, exercise and etc) to make yourself happy. I would ask you to inquire into why and how it is exactly that your lack of emotion/empathy is affecting your well being.

What I feel I have discovered for my own life is that the problems I initially attributed to a lack of emotion/empathy were inappropriately diagnosed by me as problems caused by a lack of emotion/empathy. What was really happening was that I was just not connecting to the people around me on a temperamental level and so I felt insecure and like an outcast. Because I felt like an outcast my mind became neurotic in trying to figure out why I am an outcast. I resolved my social problems by just being myself and stopping trying to fit in. My suffering was caused by a clinging to a false ideal of what my relationships should be like and it was also caused by me being anxious and worried about how other people might perceive me as weird and shun me. And so if your situation is the same as mine, I advise that you just be yourself. And if people give you a bit of flak for it be careful to not let it effect your self esteem.

[Elisabeth]

4 hours ago, lmfao said:

@brugluiz I don't think you're a psychopath. ...

You sound like an anxious and depressed person who has repressed emotion rather than no emotion.

This.

And YES, antipsychotics can certainly repress emotions.

I assume you wouldn't take them if it wasn't necessary, but do speak to your psychiatrist about how you feel/ lack feeling. Perhaps they could adjust your dosage, so that you find some middle-ground between having psychotic outbreaks and feeling blank.

Schizophrenia is one of the most difficult disorders for modern psychiatry, they can't really help you. I think there are some rare cases of self-help based recovery. Look for them.

[brugluiz]

6 hours ago, lmfao said:

@brugluiz I don't think you're a psychopath. Low empathy doesn't mean you're a psychopath, idk if you are a sociopath or not. I've read a fair number of comments and answers written by psychopaths and sociopaths on quora. When these people are answering questions online there's no incentive lie. There are many psychopaths and sociopaths on online forums who argue that the mainstream understanding of sociopaths and psychopaths (even amongst a few experts) is incorrect since this understanding revolves around the psychopaths that commit crime, when many do not.

You sound like an anxious and depressed person who has repressed emotion rather than no emotion. Psychopaths experience very very little fear, remorse, anxiety and sadness. Psychopathy is something people are born with. Here's a copy and paste answer a psychopath gave to a person who asked "Can psychopaths feel sadness?". I'm going to put it in a quote box. 

This answer here is pretty informative about being a sociopath and psychopath https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-biggest-difference-between-a-psychopath-and-a-sociopath?no_redirect=1

 

I suppose telling you that you aren't a psychopath hasn't really fixed anything about your situation lol. So you say that you don't feel much emotion and empathy. I know that I have similar problems for myself. For me I realised that it doesn't matter what labels (autistic or sociopathic) I put on myself to explain why I feel the way I do, as I feel the labels are a distraction from taking the action needed (meditation, exercise and etc) to make yourself happy. I would ask you to inquire into why and how it is exactly that your lack of emotion/empathy is affecting your well being.

What I feel I have discovered for my own life is that the problems I initially attributed to a lack of emotion/empathy were inappropriately diagnosed by me as problems caused by a lack of emotion/empathy. What was really happening was that I was just not connecting to the people around me on a temperamental level and so I felt insecure and like an outcast. Because I felt like an outcast my mind became neurotic in trying to figure out why I am an outcast. I resolved my social problems by just being myself and stopping trying to fit in. My suffering was caused by a clinging to a false ideal of what my relationships should be like and it was also caused by me being anxious and worried about how other people might perceive me as weird and shun me. And so if your situation is the same as mine, I advise that you just be yourself. And if people give you a bit of flak for it be careful to not let it effect your self esteem.

I read that sociopaths are trauma induced. They say sociopaths like playing games. If I play games, I do it unconsciously. When I was becoming psychotic, I can say I played games, but the guilty and fear came back stronger after taking antipsychotics. I feel that I've done a lot of jerk things due to my dellusions. I even apologized to the people I caused some harm when I was psychotic (not everyone, because I still feel some shame and I think there are some people that don't want to see me again).

I also feel like an outcast, but every time I will connect with people, I remember the old days when I was more empathetic. For example, my mind keeps telling me: "you could have asked that person how she is doing, but now it's too late."

If I'm a sociopath, I want my emotions back. I want my empathy back because I hate the way a sociopath lives.

[brugluiz]

3 hours ago, Feel Good said:

@brugluiz Been there, done that, it's part and parcel of getting involved with therapies of the mind.  The best thing you can do for yourself at this point is become aware of the ways in which you beat yourself up with all this worry and concepts you put on yourself. Self diagnoses and such. Try not to be too clever about things, look after yourself and keep grounded and go to therapist and follow the process. The added worry is not worth it. Sometimes reading books can get in the way, ever pondered on that? 

Thank you, @Feel Good!

The last book I read was Leonardo da Vinci by Walter Isaacson and I'm reading Walk Through Walls by Marina Abramović. The first book is quite inspiring and the last one is a bit scary sometimes (Marina Abramović had some serious traumas).

I also read a summary of a book called The Knight in Rusty Armor. Very interesting story about emotions. It seems to be a story of an Orange guy turning into Green. He cries a lot in the story like I'm doing these days. But some times I get a bit confused and I don't know why I'm crying. Maybe I'm depressive and sensitive.

[brugluiz]

2 hours ago, Elisabeth said:

This.

And YES, antipsychotics can certainly repress emotions.

I assume you wouldn't take them if it wasn't necessary, but do speak to your psychiatrist about how you feel/ lack feeling. Perhaps they could adjust your dosage, so that you find some middle-ground between having psychotic outbreaks and feeling blank.

Schizophrenia is one of the most difficult disorders for modern psychiatry, they can't really help you. I think there are some rare cases of self-help based recovery. Look for them.

I'm almost sure antipsychotics repress emotions. There's a book called Rethinking Madness by Paris Williams that talks about that. Antipsychotics seem to take away our aliveness.

I wouldn't be so attached to the mainstream paradigm of what schizophrenia is. There are some people who think schizophrenia has relationship with a spiritual crisis.

I don't even trust most psychiatrists. Most of them are attached to the mainstream paradigm of mental illness. The last psychiatrist recommended me not to stop taking antipsychotics and he wanted me to take antidepressants. There many intere$t$ in this industry.

I want to do experiences with psychedelics and, to do so, I can't be taking any psychiatric drug.

[Elisabeth]

1 minute ago, brugluiz said:

I want to do experiences with psychedelics and, to do so, I can't be taking any psychiatric drug.

 

Ok, right. That was my motivation too. So what exactly is stopping you from quitting antipsychotics? Be honest (not necessarily with me, I don't care that much, but you have to know).

[brugluiz]

Just now, Elisabeth said:

Ok, right. That was my motivation too. So what exactly is stopping you from quitting antipsychotics? Be honest (not necessarily with me, I don't care that much, but you have to know).

I'm tapering them off, but I can't do it cold turkey. I still have some fear of getting psychotic again and being hospitalized by my family. I have fears, but I still do it.

I didn't know you also took antipsychotics. How was your withdrawal? Did you feel many side effects? Did you do it cold turkey?

[Elisabeth]

28 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

I didn't know you also took antipsychotics. How was your withdrawal? Did you feel many side effects? Did you do it cold turkey?

1

No, I just took some mood stabilizers. Sorry for sounding more experienced then I am , I didn't mean to. I have a friend on antipsychotics, that's pretty much all my information sources about them. 

My quitting was easy, but I believe the principles are the same. Once you've managed to do the inner work to change/manage or live with your original condition, it's safe to quit. I don't know how the work is done for psychotic disorders though. I would think you need to create an environment for yourself that's stable and free enough and where people are accepting enough of you trying to heal on your own, so that you have space and support to work with an episode if it comes. Easier said then done though. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Elisabeth

[lmfao]

@brugluiz do you feel anything happened to make you less empathetic? And what problems do you feel this has caused? I don't know if your psychosis is relevant to this point or not. Even if you are low in empathy, you can still experience many other emotions. One possibility in my mind is that if you look at your situation from a certain angle, your lack of empathy is not really at the core of your suffering. You could just be neurotic for multiple other reasons (psychosis, prolonged social isolation, no sense of purpose in life and etc). 

And if you're interested, this link gives a very good description for what being a sociopath means https://www.quora.com/What-exactly-is-the-definition-of-a-sociopath/answer/Corey-Reaux-Savonte-1

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by lmfao

[brugluiz]

24 minutes ago, lmfao said:

@brugluiz do you feel anything happened to make you less empathetic? And what problems do you feel this has caused? I don't know if your psychosis is relevant to this point or not. Even if you are low in empathy, you can still experience many other emotions. One possibility in my mind is that if you look at your situation from a certain angle, your lack of empathy is not really at the core of your suffering. You could just be neurotic for multiple other reasons (psychosis, prolonged social isolation, no sense of purpose in life and etc). 

And if you're interested, this link gives a very good description for what being a sociopath means https://www.quora.com/What-exactly-is-the-definition-of-a-sociopath/answer/Corey-Reaux-Savonte-1

 

I read some parts of the text you posted. It says: "A defence mechanism is one that we use as a shield. Sociopathy isn't a shield. We aren't guarded against the world. We don't feel that the world is a threat. If we did, we wouldn't so freely walk through it without apprehension. We don't feel like we are being attacked by the world, at all."

The most important factor I can recognize when I was repressing my emotions is that I thought everyone was a threat for me. It led me to many dellusions.

If the text statement is true, I'm not a sociopath, but a person that has blunt emotions or difficulty to express them. I really don't have desire for power. I just want to have a good life and do my art (I love drawing and painting).