Meditation is such a broad topic that I feel to overwhelmed

[pluto8]

Hello everyone,

Sooo ya with what I said in the title being said, well, there's just so much I guess. I really don't know what to do.

Do I listen to what Osho said in his Meditation is a Phenomenon video? Do I listen to what Alan Watts said about meditation? Do I listen to that cheerful monk on youtube who said to just give the monkey mind a job by focusing on the breath? Do I practice the do nothing technique, which seems kind of similar to what Osho said? Except Osho definitely did not specifically say to do nothing. There is the Vispassana way in which after focusing on your breath and feeling the breath move over your upper lip and what not to slowly scan your body. So do I start scanning my body at some point? Control the breath or to not control the breath? Control the thoughts or to not control the thoughts? Osho said to not have a specific goal I think. Pretty sure goal is the right word there....

I understand that certain techniques are for a specific purpose, such as walking meditation, but I think you get the point...

Ok well with all that being said, it still much more complicated than that ok. Yesterday I just sat and thought about all of that and I had many more of my own thoughts arise on this topic as well and I have had many more in the past. I just can't come up with any at the top of my head right now except for this way of my own.

Basically the way of my own (I'll call it) is that I just try to feel into the deeper state (or states) that I have reached before. Like a combination of imagining and feeling my way into. Just trying to release tension. Relax. Sink. Sink into it....... deeper..go deeper.... Umm, pretty sure I can do that whether I focus on my breath or not. My deepest session was when I was focusing on my breath while listening to something through headphones with a blindfold on. O ya, I do try to control the thoughts usually, it depends I guess, but if I take it seriously enough it is not too hard to control them. My deepest session including control of the thoughts by use of breath. I also don't think I say to myself, deeper, deeper....it's more of a feeling.

Alright so I guess another thing that seems up there is that I want to be able to take this more seriously alright. Like I kind of want to be able to push out large amounts of hours. I am dealing with something right now which I feel could vanish through meditation, but not these 1-2hr sessions lol. Maybe after doing 1-2hr a day mb even twice a day for a long time, but I kinda want to speed that up and get in long sessions each day. I have a lot of time on my hands right now so I really want to take advantage of it. ya know?

ONE more big thing that's up there. So I had said I want to start getting into loong sessions because of all this time I have to take advantage of. Ok, well if that is what I want would the key be to basically just push push push. Like when I'm just flat out sick of it, dig in and continue? Really just grind to through all the shit with hopes that it will be transformed into something? Or could that be counterproductive? Maybe there is a specific technique more geared towards serious/long meditation lol. I wouldn't be surprised lol.

 

I ended up going into some personal stuff, but the point remains that there is just so much that it becomes overwhelming. Don't feel pressured to comment on the personal stuff.

Thanks for any comments and have a good day everyone!

[pluto8]

haha two problems may....

1: While meditating I may feel like I have figured something out or SOMETHING like that lol. Something that I have not heard someone explain or mb even something I do not think that someone could explain. So mb I feel like it's a deeper insight or that I'm getting into the zone of being able to merge away from the starting points of all those videos I listed above.

2: I think I'm able to get deeper if I take it seriously, but if I try to push more hours or something lol it is much harder to maintain that mindset. The mindset which I have when I just take an hour or two for serious high quality meditation. mb because it becomes more about pushing through the boredom or the whatever....

honestly, sometimes, it doesn't even happen because of a push for that long session. It could be a day when I just don't want to get into it so I sit there and think or focus on how I feel about everything. eh, I wan't to be able to take advantage of all this time. soo...

kinda hard to explain some of this stuff, but it is what it is. like I said, you don't HAVE to get into all this more personal stuff, but I would appreciate it yes.

thanks again, just couple more thoughts to add...

Edited August 16, 2018 by pluto8

[Enlightenment]

Read "The Mind Illuminated", meditate at least 1h in the morning and 1h in the evening. You should be able to reach stage 10 in 8-10 months.

[pluto8]

@Enlightenment yup, the biggest thing to me, just from my personal thinking and feels would be time as if time is the great equalizer or something. not sure if equalizer is the right word, but hopefully you get the point.

you know why your comment is good though? Is because I want to read something. I need more information. I went to a public library a couple weeks ago and actually had trouble finding information on meditation. I know there are plenty of books on amazon, guess I oughta check that out too lol.

but ya, thank you.

Edited August 16, 2018 by pluto8

[PsiloPutty]

You're waaaay overcomplicating it, friendo.   

I suggest you start simple and listen to the friendly "monkey mind" monk who said to follow your breath. Start with 15 mins a day and increase it 5 minutes per week until you're doing 30 mins a day. That's a decent maintenance routine, but absolutely feel free to slowly increase up to an hour or whatever your schedule allows. 

My suggestion: set a timer for 15 mins, sit in a chair or on the floor, close your eyes and become VERY interested in the breath. Follow it in through your nostrils, and then out through your nostrils, noticing as much about it as your can, like the temperature of the air going in as opposed to coming out, etc.  You'll still have thoughts that pop into your head (maybe LOTS!), but just silently say a non-judgmental "hello" to the thought and come back to your breath. Next thought, do the same thing. Next thought, same thing. Loud motorcycle goes by outside, give it a silent greeting of acknowledgement and go back to the breath. Nasty emotion like sadness or despair comes over you, greet it without judging it, and go back to your breath. I think you see a pattern.   

So really, that's basic breath-focused meditation, and you'll reap meditation's benefits even if that's as far as you ever take your practice. There are other effective techniques, and Vipassana is of course one of them. Most people give up meditating while their body and mind are still getting used to it (first month or so), but stick to it and you'll start to see the benefits of it. At that point, you won't have to try so hard to make yourself do it. Once you start to see the way it positively affects your life, it will be a self-sustaining practice.

[luismatos]

Namaste,

I've felt what you're feeling also. In the beginning of my journey, there was so much information and so many things to do that I would often just procrastinate and not implement any of the practices. Is this practice good? What about that one? Which is better? Is my practice alright, the best, the faster?

This still happens to some extent, and here's my suggestion:

Don't get caught up in researching and trying to find the best. Just implement something right now. As soon you start digging into the practices the better. You can get caught up researching weeks and months without giving anything a try. Just throw yourself into anything and slowly, with time, you will start to feel what's better for you and what's your next step. Of course you can still research while doing that.

Meditation in the end is about stillness. Making stillness an ingredient of you. Meditation is something you become. You become still, silent. So the less techniques in meditation, the better. I started "meditation" just sitting in the couch doing nothing, for 10 minutes. Looking at the walls, just simply sitting there, "waiting." Over 2 years, I became very meditative and stillness permeated my life.

There are tons of methods to quite the mind. Everything really - yoga, meditation, self-inquiry - is about stilling the mind.

Having said that, my "method" of meditation is very simple: simply sit unmoving and focus on the stillness, not giving attention to thoughts.

In the beginning you might be overwhelmed because what is stillness? what is awareness?  but just make a commitment to sit still for 20 minutes a day, even if your body is full of tension and your mind going wild. Eventually, you'll start to feel it.

So in short,

Throw yourself into anything right now even with all the doubts. Dive into stillness. Keep your daily practices - this is for the long-term!

[peanutspathtotruth]

I feel you, there are so many techniques out there, but as was said before, don't make it more complicated than it is. Pick one technique and go with it, many say you can go all the way with basically every technique. You could just use one and get a lot out of it. 

 

I would also suggest starting out with breath meditation because it develops capacities which are helpful for inquiry etc and just in general quiets your mind down. I like Shinzen Youngs approach on this technique but there are many good teachers. 

 The key with meditation is to keep it simple but invest all your being in it. I also incorporate do-nothing and I just stick to "don't interfere with whatever happens". Maybe try that one out later. 

By the way, if you really think you can control your thoughts, look deeper. Wo thinks he controls his thoughts? Where are the thoughts actually coming from. Try to just notice how spontaneously thoughts (and all other experience) arises. It's thoughts who than say "yeah well i just had that thought". Tricky game but you can learn a lot here. 

[Arkandeus]

just sit and look inside

too many rules in my opinion

What I do I sit, and I close my eyes and voilà I'm giving attention to my inner world

if thoughts come up I dont even stop them, I let them be, fully, if there needs to be thought I let there be thought and thinking

If I need to play a song I let a song be played, if I need to rock back and forth on my chair I let energy run its course

if silence comes, so it does

for me meditation is personal inner self inner world time

I stop the meditation when I feel there is nothing to be expressed anymore, when I feel sort of attuned to my inner world

less rules, more freedom!

 

[pluto8]

So how I control my thoughts is that I try to create enough interest towards the breath so that when a thought comes up that is interesting I just go no, as appetizing as a thought it may seem I just build the will to focus on the breath instead. lol, heres a good example of something. Do I bring it back to breath as fast as can or slowly? because you know what, although I do not care about forgetting a thought, what I do care about is the idea of being able to let go of a thought so my mind will try to check to see if I have forgotten about it hahah. annnnd that will create a little cycle sometimes.

 

I think the key here is to just let it all go because although you may have noticed something interesting about meditation(something that may help you) it is probably best to just let go.

 

and just to be clear that release of tension, continued relaxation getting deeper, deeper. thats all good right. pretty sure I saw an Osho quote saying there's utter relaxation yet alertness, more alert than before even. at some point you reach like, actual deep point where you like pass through a little wave or maybe are just subconsciously watching the breath(probs didn't describe that right, but happened to me once). That's all correct?

 

thanks for the replies. Just so you know, the comments have helped yes. There have been some good points.

[pluto8]

@luismatos You said you would procrastinate...Which practice? Which is best?.....

I have a question for you.

Did it ever get deeper than that? The questioning and what not.

Umm, for example, did you ever start coming up with your own questions, but which revolved around the meditation at hand?

Those questions I would have a hard time putting into words I think, but do they mean anything? Or should they? Is it just up to you to determine?

There is definitely stuff which can not be explained. Maybe there are questions which only you can ask yourself and answer?

Namaste

[luismatos]

@pluto8 You mean the questions like What practice is best? 

There's only the best for you. For me, it has definitely been meditation. I tried contemplating, journaling, self-inquiry and other things but it all merged together in meditation.

You could be more specific about the questions you're talking about.

[PsiloPutty]

You'll never be able to control your thoughts, because you don't generate them. They pass by us like cars on a highway.....some are interesting and some aren't. If an interesting thought comes up while you're meditating, and it takes your focus off your breath, you can focus on that thought for a few seconds or so, without engaging the thought or steering it at all, and then come back to the breath. The quieter thoughts that come and go in the background but don't take your focus off the breath can just be left as background noise and don't need to be focused on. 

The simple act of coming back to your breath after noticing thoughts, feelings, emotions, sounds, etc. is the most important action in breath-focused meditation. So, when you realize that you've been thinking instead of meditating, don't scold yourself, but rather give yourself a mental pat on the back for catching it, and go back to your breath. This action, repeated hundreds of times over many meditation sessions is what strengthens your "meditation muscle" and lays the basic groundwork for focus and mindfulness in general. Come back to the breath. Come back to the breath. That's the gold.

You'll have to trust us that soooooo many of your questions will be answered experientially after a few weeks of meditating. I know you want to do it "right" but don't bog yourself down with wondering too much. 

 

[cetus]

@pluto8 I was just listening to Ramana "What is the self"- something close to that. Anyway he was saying the 3 "states" waking, dreaming and deep sleep all happen on the blank screen of consciousness. And listening to that I thought becoming one with the empty screen of consciousness is what deep meditation is IMO. So that being said to be at one with consciousness one would need to turn the attention away from the activities of mind and allow thoughts to fall away on their own. No pushing away, no following. Just allow them to subside of their own as they are just projections on the screen of consciousness. With continued practice the blank screen of consciousness will slowly become more evident as you move away from the projection of mind/thought. 

[luismatos]

Your description was so accurate! Thanks @cetus56

[cetus]

5 hours ago, pluto8 said:

Really just grind to through all the shit with hopes that it will be transformed into something?

There is nothing that transforms into something. That could be a trap. Consciousness is always present. It's just overshadowed by the mind b-c it's subtle so easily hidden. Here is another something that Ramana said that may apply. Paraphrasing here: When digging a well the hole is always there. One only needs to remove the dirt that's filling it. You gotta think about that one for a moment.

[Forestluv]

@pluto8 Adyashanti's free ebook: The Way of Liberation is the best introductory guide to meditation I've read. It's short and to the point.

https://d1c742hwzmv7ke.cloudfront.net/library/The_Way_of_Liberation_Ebook.pdf

[robdl]

4 hours ago, pluto8 said:

So how I control my thoughts is that I try to create enough interest towards the breath so that when a thought comes up that is interesting I just go no, as appetizing as a thought it may seem I just build the will to focus on the breath instead. lol, heres a good example of something. Do I bring it back to breath as fast as can or slowly? because you know what, although I do not care about forgetting a thought, what I do care about is the idea of being able to let go of a thought so my mind will try to check to see if I have forgotten about it hahah. annnnd that will create a little cycle sometimes.

 

You seem to have a resistance, an adversarial relationship toward thought.  You want to control thought; to exert your will to do so. 

But "you"/"I" IS thought! There is no "thinker" of thoughts!

But "resistance" IS thought!

But "control" IS thought!

But "will" IS thought!

Thought uses the notion of a self/"I" to self-perpetuate.  Thought uses resistance to self-perpetuate.  Thought uses control to self-perpetuate.  Thought uses will/effort/volition to self-perpetuate.

To be a "thinker" that is trying to push away, control, suppress "their" thoughts is to only nourish the very movement of thought itself. 

This is how thought operates --- it creates a false division of thinker/thoughts, which breeds conflict (resistance, volition, suppression, aversion), which breeds more thinking.

Edited August 16, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

The very desire/will to control, eliminate thought or the very fear/aversion toward thought's presence are both actually thought in disguise.  Thought is extremely sneaky and self-deceptive that way. 

Thought thinks it is going to end thought, but in actuality, it has no intention of doing so.  Thought is only interested in its own perpetuation.

@pluto8

 

If one approaches meditation through any lens of desire, motive, fear, striving, or will, the meditation will be corrupted by it -- as these are all forms of thought.  Thought will be influencing, dictating the observation; perpetuating division.

Edited August 16, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

 

46 minutes ago, robdl said:

You seem to have a resistance, an adversarial relationship toward thought.  You want to control thought; to exert your will to do so. 

But "you"/"I" IS thought! There is no "thinker" of thoughts!

But "resistance" IS thought!

But "control" IS thought!

But "will" IS thought!

Thought uses the notion of a self/"I" to self-perpetuate.  Thought uses resistance to self-perpetuate.  Thought uses control to self-perpetuate.  Thought uses will/effort/volition to self-perpetuate.

To be a "thinker" that is trying to push away, control, suppress "their" thoughts is to only nourish the very movement of thought itself. 

This is how thought operates --- it creates a false division of thinker/thoughts, which breeds conflict (resistance, volition, suppression, aversion), which breeds more thinking.

Great example of the mechanical movement of fragmentation. 

 

29 minutes ago, robdl said:

If one approaches meditation through any lens of desire, motive, fear, striving, or will, the meditation will be corrupted by it -- as these are all forms of thought.  Thought will be influencing, dictating the observation.

Edited 13 minutes ago by robdl

Psychological Conflict must end first. Until then there will be no actual meditation at all. 

[pluto8]

@robdl @robdl @PsiloPutty

Interesting stuff guys...

One point I noticed is that trying to control the thoughts is a thought. That thinking can be sneaky and self-deceptive in that way.

hmmm.

Ok, well PsiloPutty added a bit there about bringing your attention back to your breath. ya?

What is the purpose of that? The monk on youtube said that too...... you know, bring attention back to breath.

So why?

 

What do you guys think about this idea? Soo think of someone entering a trance with a drum, or drum beat on youtube. After envisioning that I got the idea that thought could take different forms. One form, may be a trance. As if you are putting all the energy into the trance, leaving none for thought creation. Or maybe instead of a thought being created and trance wave takes its place instead.... just ideas haha.

 

Not sure if this is true, but trying to control the thoughts could create more annnd that might tie into what is below.

 

And, are you suppose to try to nip it at the but or catch the thought in the act as soon as you possibly can, as soon as it even starts to appear? Or just forget that idea. I guess, if you were trying to do that you would always be on the look out for the arrival of a potential thought. Ya you would be maintaining most focus on the breath, but still on lookout. I have tried this, they have unfolded into thought trains... mb it was a lack of focus at times, who knows. Like I said above, not sure if this is true, but trying to control the thoughts could create more.

Sometimes I can get sucked into a thought. It becomes like a dreamy thought. Yup, deff hard to explain... It's like spaced out, automatic thinking. It is deeper than normal, if you know what I mean. Eh, don't take the description tooo seriously, but is that all normal lol? Should I switch techniques?