Where is the world heading? :(

[XYZ]

Also an important thing to mention is that euthanizing most of the urban homeless, those who are experiencing constant suffering and realistically have no chance of being anything else but a street bum, actually feels like the most compassionate thing to do in terms of alleviating human suffering. When I walk under a freeway, often choosing to walk out into the street and risk getting hit by cars than go near the homeless encampments, I see all those wretched miserable people there barely even living, rotting away in their own waste, painfully waiting around to die. They would probably kill themselves if they had an opportunity to do it quick and painlessly, assisted suicide programs would be a humane option I suppose.

Been talking about this stuff too much and it's getting depressing, got to go clear my mind by looking at pictures of mountians and trees and flowers.

[Rilles]

Oh great... genocide... yeah just focus on the flowers man 

[XYZ]

4 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Oh great... genocide... yeah just focus on the flowers man 

Compassionate social cleansing, in a theoretical sense. And case in point how merely thinking about such thinks creates a dark mood.

The real issue here though, both personally and globally, is what do you do when you feel that humanity and the world is completely fucked and nothing can be done about it?

This is how, after previously embodying the Green virtues of the typical hippie environmentalist passionate about "healing the Earth" I seemed to move into extreme self-centeredness and apathy, living in the present, filling my life with pleasant sensations, tuning out other people's feelings people rather than empathizing, and ignoring human suffering to instead focus on my own deep inner world, no longer giving any fucks about the world's problems, as long as I can dodge them myself. 

[Rilles]

14 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Compassionate social cleansing, in a theoretical sense. And case in point how merely thinking about such thinks creates a dark mood.

The real issue here though, both personally and globally, is what do you do when you feel that humanity and the world is completely fucked and nothing can be done about it?

Youre fucked too, you are decaying right now and you’ll be gone in about 70 years depending on your age, are you gonna compassionately cleanse yourself off the face of the earth too? By your logic you should. Its like you have a scratch on your arm and your idea is to lop the entire arm off instead of treating the wound.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Rilles

[CreamCat]

I can understand your perspective, but I think there are nicer ways to deal with the homeless. Perhaps, some cities learned how to deal with them without violence.

Assisted suicide is not necessarily bad. People who suffer terminal illness think assisted suicide should be available for them.

Edited August 17, 2018 by CreamCat

[RendHeaven]

When people claim to be yellow, 9/10 they're not yellow lol  

[XYZ]

7 hours ago, Outer said:

@XYZ hahaha, sounds like your disgust sensitivity is high. It seems as it constitutes your existence. Nice emotions.

Indeed so, I fully recognize I'm more physically sensitive to things, some things that don't even register for most. Take human body odor for example. I used to think maybe my revulsion to the way certain people smell was just some conceited, holier-than-thou attitude, and if I humbled myself I won't see people so negatively just because of how they smell. But what I found is that it's purely visceral aversion. Yesterday I tried walking past a homeless person normally instead of leaving the sidewalk to avoid their path, and I automatically grimaced and scowled in discomfort/disgust at the way they smelled and looked. Many times I've had to just get off buses because it was difficult to breathe due to all the homeless stench. More general example is that even at community oriented comfortable places like the yoga classes I go to, some people seem to not wear deoderant (or enough of it, or shower, wash their clothes, etc), so I have to move away from them so the smell doesn't distract from the experience. The most uncomfortable thing that could happen is if I hug someone (as is common after spiritual yoga events) and the strong odor of their armpit sweat and stale body musk rubs off on me and now I smell like that, their foul odour transferred onto me, and now I feel uncomfortable and need to take another shower, the day is somewhat ruined until I do. Generally I enjoy hugging women, but I encounter plenty of bad smelling women too, there and many other places, so in my mind I sort of tag certain people as "smells-avoid all physical contact" to stay comfortable. This is one of the many ways in which I'm overly sensitive to people and prefer to be alone, avoid the phsycial discomfort of being around other people, and the emotional discomfort of allowing myself to be vulnerable to directly experiencing other people's emotions.

7 hours ago, Rilles said:

Youre fucked too, you are decaying right now and you’ll be gone in about 70 years depending on your age, are you gonna compassionately cleanse yourself off the face of the earth too? By your logic you should. Its like you have a scratch on your arm and your idea is to lop the entire arm off instead of treating the wound.

I'd defnitely rather "cleanse myself" from existence than live like the street-dwelling homeless bums. Actually did some research into why such people continue to deolately scrape along in their slow and painful deaths intead of killing themselves, and it's basically drugs and alcohol for the most part. And this is mostly why they live on the street instead of using the available services to help them, which would require them to stop substance abusing. "Treating the wound" would be changing laws so that people who make such messes of themselves while being a public nuisance can be simply rounded up by civil security forces, and put in containment facilities to be evaluated for rehabilitation. But cities aren't allowed to just kick out homeles migrants because 'they're people too and have a right to exist freely' even if they negatively impact public safety & quality of life for everyone else who has to deal with their presence.

I also lament how being constantly harassed by beggars has made me far more antisocial, to the point where I ignore anyone who tries to talk to me in public, assuming they are just begging for money or trying to sell somehting (99% of the time I'm right though). Really eroded any sense of community I might have with the plave I live.

You just know that as the scourge gets worse and nothing is done about it, people who have the means will self-segregate more and more into gated cities, shielded from the masses of poor and hungry surging in from all corners of the Earth, where everything is clean and beautiful, and people can trust each other. If I lived in such a place I think I'd feel a lot more positively of my fellow humankind again.

And presently, by tuning out all the poverty and suffering in the world, as well as physically avoiding undesirable people more and more, I can maintain a positive perspective on life, ignoring the harsh reality of things and living in my own serene bubble, reality is mostly subjective.

7 hours ago, CreamCat said:

I can understand your perspective, but I think there are nicer ways to deal with the homeless. Perhaps, some cities learned how to deal with them without violence.

Assisted suicide is not necessarily bad. People who suffer terminal illness think assisted suicide should be available for them.

City limits, county lines and international borders are just arbitrary boundaries. The issue is that migrants will cross over these regardless, they place wherever they end up has to deal with the blight of the problem, and when they try to "help" these people, it just keeps attracting more. 

[XYZ]

3 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

When people claim to be yellow, 9/10 they're not yellow lol  

I understand why you'd think otherwise given my extreme self-centeredness, and as I acknowledged, that actually seems a retained aspect of Red based on the model. But as for all other qualities of stage yellow, they seem to accurately describe my experience, and evolution in development.

http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/yellow/

[Ananta]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Practice masturbating consciously, like a sage

Omg, this is hilarious ?, thanks for the end of the workday laugh! TGIF!!

[XYZ]

13 hours ago, XYZ said:

I understand why you'd think otherwise given my extreme self-centeredness, and as I acknowledged, that actually seems a retained aspect of Red based on the model. But as for all other qualities of stage yellow, they seem to accurately describe my experience, and evolution in development.

http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/yellow/

Actually, it's starting to occur to me that selfishness and selflessness both come full circle, fully embodying one necessarily implies the other, they're essentially both sides of the same coin! Being completely selfish, one realizes that the well being of others and reduction of human suffering, both individually and collectively, is actually to their benefit. And being completely selfless, one realizes that caring for their own well being, becoming the strongest version of themselves as Elliot Hulse would put it, is of benefit to everyone you come in contact with, and humanity in general. 

This could be the key to getting past my retained stage Red thinking. I don't doubt that I'm mostly in stage Yellow, but just as Leo claims President Trump has retained many Red tendencies despite being overwhelmingly in Orange, it seems quite plausible that I've carried similar things, but they remained latent during my mid 20s, eclipsed by the environmentalist, community oriented, egalitarian hippie beliefs I used to aspire to. 

That's all about this for now, but I'll definitely want to start another thread about the selfishness<>selflessness realization. I'm still finishing the very long video on sameness vs. difference, and for all I know this exact topic had come up. Through I responded to the subject line, it appears this thread was supposed to be more about the relationship of spirituality and sexual repression.

[pluto]

That's the world your "tuning" into. Tune elsewhere. Turn off that TV and don't pay attention to things that no longer serve you. If you focus on the things that do serve you, you will eventually only see growth, expansion, abundance ect... in a more positive driven manner.

Remember, this whole reality is a projection of your own personalized consciousness, we may see it similar to some degree but ultimately its very different to the next person and completely unique. How you choose to see it is how it turns out to be,

Focus on the good, you attract more good, focus on the bad, you attract more of that ect... Think of the universe as a mirror.

It literally works the same way just in a slower reaction based on your level of consciousness/vibration. The higher you are, the faster the reflective reality manifest

Hope this helps

Edited August 18, 2018 by pluto

[Solace]

^+1

These posts are fantastic. It’s clear, simple, straight to the point, and inspiring.

[Robert]

@XYZ Try taking 100% responsibility for the homeless instead of living in fear of them. Maybe you can even make that your life purpose. Something like: "I use systems thinking to solve the problem of homelessness." Whether that's putting them in gas chambers or better shelters, do whatever your heart tells you. Don't succumb to victimhood.

If you look at the journey of any true hero, you will find that the odds were always stacked against them, but they took action regardless. They always had virtually no chance of success, but they took action regardless.

And you can't run away anyway. You are connected to everyone and everything, so trying to separate yourself will only make matters worse. The fate of the universe is really in your hands. You're way more powerful than you think.

I challenge you to go on a journey. 

Good luck.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Robert

[XYZ]

@Robert

use systems thinking to solve the problem of homelessness

even make that your life purpose

The over-arching life purpose of much of my thinking would be under the umbrella of "reducing human suffering, inside and out" which I have observed is a very common realization many of us share. I can come up with the most brilliant practical solutions to many of the world's problems, some of I am sure taking small action, or sharing the ideas with certain people can have profound butterfly effects.

But with the urban street homeless issue, it's all just theoretical musings. I can clearly see how things like immigration enforcement, safety nets of basic living provisions, forced detox programs, prefabricated mini-houses, Gulags, assisted suicide, public nuisance ordinances, funding mental health services, privatizing public spaces, and many other changes could prevent the issue on one end and solve it on the other. Lot of these are obvious, and most others are brought up in political discussion. But politics itself is the limiting factor here, the pigeonholing of social issues into left and right leaning agendas, and the arbitrary lines between countries, states, counties and cities.

I don't want to obsess over this issue, I accept it exists and there is no escaping it. It's actually beneficial to myself and to the world if I don't focus on the negative manifestations of things, better to think positive thoughts and live in a world of shiny happy people than live in fear and disgust towards homeless migration. 

Why not think bigger instead, addressing the root issue: Fostering awareness of how attitudes like pathological altruism and feel-good-ism, which are responsible for so many band-aid solutions which appear on the surface to be acting from a place of compassion, only lead to more human suffering. Or more broadly, helping the world at large advance into the next stages of consciousness, leading by example.

[Robert]

@XYZ Choose whatever purpose you want. It's your purpose, after all. The homeless thing was just one idea I gave since you seem passionate about it.

47 minutes ago, XYZ said:

But with the urban street homeless issue, it's all just theoretical musings.

If you made it your life purpose, it would not be.

47 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Why not think bigger instead, addressing the root issue: Fostering awareness of how attitudes like pathological altruism and feel-good-ism, which are responsible for so many band-aid solutions which appear on the surface to be acting from a place of compassion, only lead to more human suffering. Or more broadly, helping the world at large advance into the next stages of consciousness, leading by example.

You can't be the most conscious leader you can be without a life purpose. No other way is bigger than this.

And please explain to me [with clarity] what you mean by "pathological altruism." You're incoherent and not making much sense in your posts.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Robert

[XYZ]

@Robert

It's an actual term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_Altruism

I don't want to make that issue specifically my life purpose. What I mean is that in a broad sense, all of the grand ideas people have about how they could optimize they way society and humanity in general operates are actually rooted in desire to alleviate suffering in the world. Otherwise, why bother even thinking about it, there would be no motivation to do so.

I don't want to hijack this thread anymore, let it digress back to the original discussion topics. 

[Robert]

@XYZ We're still on topic.

7 hours ago, XYZ said:

@Robert

It's an actual term:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_Altruism

Don't take that book seriously. Author doesn't know what she's talking about. Just from reading that one link I was able to spot mutliple false assumptions she makes about reality.

7 hours ago, XYZ said:

What I mean is that in a broad sense, all of the grand ideas people have about how they could optimize they way society and humanity in general operates are actually rooted in desire to alleviate suffering in the world. Otherwise, why bother even thinking about it, there would be no motivation to do so.

Exactly. So what's your point?

Edited August 19, 2018 by Robert

[XYZ]

@Robert

Okay, let's talk about pathological altruism, just for the sake of exploring the issue further. Don't get hung up on the semantics of defining it, how I'd best explain it using my own words is engaging in action that feels like being compassionate, selfless and helping people, but is actually harmful to both the altruist and the people they mean to help. Should have done this originally instead of just appealing to authority. Recently came across this video which reminded me of the term. Don't mean to keep picking on Sweden (or that I believe everything Paul Joseph Watson says), but it is a very good example:

Now that I think about it, this is actually very relevant to religious celibacy. Requiring Catholic priests to commit to a life of celibacy is intended to be dedication to selflessness, to purity, to serving God. The news of just how prevalent the sexual abuse has been really suggests that all these abusers were doing is sexual repression. Now I'm a big fan of voluntary celibacy for men, if it is done by choice and they know how to transmute their sexual energy from base urges, or just deal with it using the conventional age old way by masturbating. Problem is if that sexual urges are there and just kept repressed, they will keep festering, and maybe manifest as paedophilia and rape. They were more concerned with keeping up the illusion of celibacy, for if they admitted to themselves they had sexual feelings they would feel un-holy, and if anyone found out it would be disgraceful to the church, and they would be removed.

The antidote to pathological altruism is to always look at the big picture, and re-evaluate old paradigms and procedures that may be doing more harm than good. My assumption would be that the Catholic Church and other religious and spiritual organizations will more away from mandatory celibacy more and more. European countries overrun with violent refugees, and West Coast urban centers overrun with homeless people are already experiencing popular backlash for the pathological altruism which created these problems. Can actually credit Donald Trump for increasing global awareness of this harmful altruism bias, even if it's between a slew of other inane shitpostings on Twitter. 

Yes, I do feel that the world is waking up, realizing that you can't help everyone, and very few people even know how to be genuinely altruistic. Often the best policy is live and let live, and I don't have any magic bullets to address the harm already caused. "Live and let live," there it is! No need to feel anger and disgust, even if the world's problems creep into my everyday life more and more, it's no big deal, life goes on, live and let live. Life purpose is something I feel much deeper, really beyond words, never reduced to a clear-cut "do X accomplish Y" credo. 

That's all I have to say about that and hopefully refined my perspective and made more sense this time.

 

[MarkusSweden]

@XYZ

3 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Don't mean to keep picking on Sweden

Sweden is the greatest country in the world, and Russia the worst, at least our mainstream news tells us this.  

[XYZ]

@MarkusSweden *resists the urge to post memes and link more PJW videos about Sverige*