How could something emerge out of nothing?

[SomethingFromNothing]

How could the entire universe emerge from absolutely nothing? Nothing has been defined as the absence of absolutely everything, including all paradigms. So the material paradigm of needing something to create something is wiped out. The only symbol we have to point towards nothing is 0.

 

So now if everything is one, how could it go from 0 to 1? But then again, if this entire universe is 0, then our understanding is a lie? How everything could actually be nothing? After all you're not You, nothing is personal. Which filter/point of view could be viewed as the right one? Does an universal truth even exist? How could something emerge out of nothing, again and again and again? Is there a special algorithm? How deep does this entire thing go?

Edited August 15, 2018 by SomethingFromNothing

[Leo Gura]

Something didn't emerge out of nothing. Rather, something and nothing are identical and indistinguishable.

0 vs 1 is a distinction or a difference you're latching onto.

Consider the possibility that there is no difference between 0 and 1. Or in other words, there is only a difference between 0 and 1 if you say that there is, otherwise there isn't.

Pause, look around the room, and notice that everything you see is nothing.

Your entire life has been nothing, only you had mistaken it for something.

All this time your mistake has been thinking that everything around you is something when it is in fact nothing.

Nothing looks precisely like the "physical universe". Nothing is NOT an empty hole like you have always imagined.

Ta-da!

[SomethingFromNothing]

@Leo Gura  How could everything i see be nothing? That's like saying everything i see is a banana. You've redefined the word nothing to mean everything in the perceptual field of awareness equals a mathematical sum of 0 or the word nothing.

How could this nothing have intelligence, order, structure or even chaos? Or how could it even have anything at all? Why does it have any properties? Why i am even writing this? Why is anything happening at all at any level?

Edited August 15, 2018 by SomethingFromNothing

[SomethingFromNothing]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Pause, look around the room, and notice that everything you see is nothing.

Your entire life has been nothing, only you had mistaken it for something.

Why would nothing trick itself into believing something is occurring? Do you see it? You're using nothing as a replacement term for i. Why would i trick myself into believing i am something? Why would that even be happening? I can understand that there's nothing restraining such thing from occurring in existence, but maybe the point is to understand the mechanism of how it is occurring and alter it?

Edited August 15, 2018 by SomethingFromNothing

[CreamCat]

Quote

What is this? Nothing. Just move on. You are nothing!

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by CreamCat

[SomethingFromNothing]

35 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

What is this? Nothing. Just move on. You are nothing!

move where? if everywhere is nowhere then there's nowhere to move. Who's moving? Why don't you debate me about this subject until you pass out and die in front of your monitor? Who would die anyways, there was no one there in the first place!

Edited August 15, 2018 by SomethingFromNothing

[SomethingFromNothing]

21 minutes ago, Artaemis said:

Nothingness isn't like a big void. There is substance, there are infinite differences, but in each difference there is sameness of senses (all 5 senses present), sameness of dream/reality, sameness of any two labels you have put on these infinite substances. There is only infinite substances. Each difference has all 5 senses and an infinite amount more. The labels help you to interpret a reality. Its like playdough. 

Why nothingness would have a substance? You're not digging deeper and chipping nothingness at it's core, because it has no core. Nothingness is not a mental/visual imagination, it's the lack of everything we know and can imagine and conceptualize. The very fabric of reality is the opposite of nothing. That's what the entire scientific model/paradigm is operating on. If this is nothing then what is anything?

Edited August 15, 2018 by SomethingFromNothing

[Naturalist]

There are two facets of Mother Nature - the dependent and the inherent aspects.  These two aspects would exist concurrently and can be illustrated in a mathematical equation as below: -

[FACET 1] … (-2+2) + (-16+16) + (-22+22) + (-133+133) + (0) + (-54+54) …, etc    =    0  [FACET 2]

Key: -

FACET 1

=  dependent arising.
=  the existence of mind - that conjures up perceptions, conceptions, labels, names, descriptions, shapes, values, languages, etc.
=  the existence of rising and falling phenomena.
=  the existence of beginning and ending processes.
=  all subjects and objects are created i.e. inherent existence is devoid.
=  the emptiness could be realised in various stages.

FACET 2

=  inherent existence.
=  the absence of mind to conjure up perceptions, conceptions, labels, names, descriptions, shapes, values, languages, etc.
=  the absence of beginning and ending processes.
=  the absence of conditional phenomena.
=  nothing has ever been created or changed.
=  the Buddha nature.

Zero (0)  =  intermediation = absence = emptiness but not nothingness, 

=  a mathematical value intermediate between positive and negative values.
=  the absence of any or all units under consideration.

...(-2+2) + ... + (-133+133) ...  =  values of fluxes that are dependent arising.

... + (-2+2) + (-54+54) + ...  =  this arising, that arises.

... + (0) + ...  =  this ceasing, that ceases  =  a stage of enlightenment.
=  all dependent arising are completely blown-off or extinguished.
=  a stage of perfect intermediation  =  a stage of absence =  a complete realisation of emptiness.

( .... )  =  the law of kamma  =  the universal law of balancing.

-2+2 or -133+133  =  the law of attraction.
 

From the above mathematical equation, one could summarise the conclusions as below: -

1.  Mother Nature is a system of constant with a factor of intermediation or absence.  It means that nature would orientate toward a state of balance, intermediation or absence at all times.

2.  When things run off-balance or when one stirs up in the nature - be it in volitional or non-volitional sense, the natural law that maintains equilibrium would take its course to balance it in one way or another across time and the planes of existence. 

3.  Anything that inherently exists would not involve change and created objects cannot inherently exist since that would involve change. 

4.  The dependent nature is similar to the inherent nature. 

 

An absence of any or all units under consideration is not equivalent to nothingness of any or all units under consideration.  A perfect intermediation would mean a comprehensive absence of any or all units under consideration.  It is also known as a complete neutralisation of conditional phenomena. 

The two facets of Mother Nature would always exist because it is universal and does not take sides; it merely maintains the equilibrium in accordance with a system that runs on perpetuity.  And every existence (sentient, non-sentient, or any material things) consists of energy and matter that would orientate toward a harmoniously balanced condition that is in accordance with the universal laws of nature.   In other words, all things or matters would only exist in perpetual conditions when there is a balanced circumstance.  This is because when there is a balanced circumstance, there is a chance for aggregation i.e. under a balanced phenomenon, one could witness shapes or forms arising; under an imbalanced phenomenon, one could witness no shapes or forms arising and the cycle of conditional phenomena continues repeatedly.

In other words, balance does not mean a devoid of duality or multiplicity, just like emptiness does not amount to nothingness.   One clear example that can exemplify the dependent nature would be the orientation of a compass – an instrument used to indicate directions.  The needle of a compass is magnetised and would always point toward magnetic north under any varying circumstances.  Moreover, the dependent nature of phenomena is a necessary prerequisite for energy or matter to exist; without it, the energy or matter would be impossible. 

In the material Universe, the elements of energy become the main source for the something that arises as in object; rather than the general perception of nothingness.  Everything in the material Universe is made up of energy.  Atoms and molecules are made up of energy.  Our bodies, our clothes, our cars, our houses are all made up of energy but what makes them different is their vibration.  Energy is always vibrating at a different frequency under the influence of conditional phenomena.  Everything has its own vibrational frequency – our thoughts, our feelings, the rock, the table, the car, the animal, the plant, the tree, etc.  Even colours are merely expressions of certain vibrational frequencies.  These scenarios are guided by a system of universal law known as the law of vibration.  In fact, the law of vibration serves as a foundation for the law of attraction. 

The law of attraction states that we attract what we are sending out i.e. like attracts like, unlike repels unlike.  Hence, favourable energies attract favourable energies and unfavourable energies attract unfavourable energies.  Human thoughts are cosmic waves of energy that penetrate all time and space and it is the most potent vibration that can attracts what is desired or wished for.  In other words, all sentient beings are electro-magnetic beings with the subtle mind consciousness that acts as an antenna or a radar detector constantly attracting and magnetising vibrational frequencies.  Human thoughts are frequencies to which other similar frequencies are constantly resonating.  This resonance is the basis for a universal law – the law of attraction.  

At the end of the day, the material Universe is merely a momentary appearance conjured up from a continuum of orientating energy and matter in space under the influence of conditional phenomena.  Just like ice, water and steam are different appearances deriving from the orientation of H2O properties under the influence of the external conditions.  In other words, it is the orientation of H2O properties that has taken place to conjure up the momentary outcome of it.  The dependent nature is also an inherent existence whereby it is unchanging when viewed externally, uncaused, indestructible and eternal.  This can be depicted in the repeating cycle of birth, life, death and re-birth in Mother Nature.

 

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, SomethingFromNothing said:

@Leo Gura  How could everything i see be nothing? That's like saying everything i see is a banana. You've redefined the word nothing to mean everything in the perceptual field of awareness equals a mathematical sum of 0 or the word nothing.

How could everything be distinct from nothing? Nothing is nothing, so there is nothing to keep it from fusing with everything.

No, I have not redefined the word. I am trying to show you that the distinction between something and nothing is in fact relative.

The universe actually cannot tell the difference between something and nothing.

Do not confuse this for word games. Something extemely profound is being pointed at here.

Quote

How could this nothing have intelligence, order, structure or even chaos? Or how could it even have anything at all? Why does it have any properties? Why i am even writing this? Why is anything happening at all at any level?

How could it not if nothing is the same as something?

You are assuming nothing and something are distinct. This is a mistake.

You are writing this because nothing in the universe has ever happened. So everything happened. So here you are.

2 hours ago, SomethingFromNothing said:

Why would nothing trick itself into believing something is occurring? Do you see it? You're using nothing as a replacement term for i. Why would i trick myself into believing i am something? Why would that even be happening? I can understand that there's nothing restraining such thing from occurring in existence, but maybe the point is to understand the mechanism of how it is occurring and alter it?

Without a distinction between something and nothing you'd be dead. So it's very difficult for you to see that something is nothing as that would collapse reality and derail your entire life.

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

I don't know why you guys enjoy saying "everything is nothing", because that's not true.

But I guess it depends on the definition of "nothing", for me the definition of nothing is really really really nothing. And I think that's the correct definition. So it's wrong to say that everything is nothing.

I think you guys are just bending the word 'nothing'. What's the point with that? Is the point that it's a cool thing to say "everything is nothing" and "you are nothing"?

You change the word 'nothing' to a half-assed 'nothing'. Let the word mean really really really nothing instead of half-assed nothing.

No, you are not hearing what is being said.

These are not word games. Nothing actually is identical to everything.

Do not expect to understand this using your rational linear mind. This requires a deep enlightenment to grasp. We talking about the ultimate structure of all of existence here! Don't except this to be easy or logical.

All your ideas of nothing are not nothing.

The closest you can get to nothing is by looking around the room. That is actual nothing.

---------

Just trust my guidance on this one guys. Otherwise you will waste years looking in the wrong direction.

I am pointing you straight at nothing. But it's extremely radically and the mind doesn't want to see it.

Take a psychedelic to speed up the realization. This one's a doozy and will take you 20 years to realize sober.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Ok, I guess I admit then that I don't understand.

"All your ideas of nothing are not nothing."

Then why use the same word even? It would make things more easy if the word would be different, some word which normal people don't use, for example "kdyuew".

Because when you finally realize it, you'll say, "OMG! It's NOTHING!!!"

There are many words for it that we use:

• Nothingness
• Formless
• Everything
• The ALL
• Oneness
• Nonduality
• Absolute
• Emptiness
• Void
• Mu
• True Self
• No-self
• God
• Brahman
• Infinity
• Absolute Infinity
• Apeiron
• Etc.

[Joseph Maynor]

What came first, the chicken or the egg?  This is exactly the same kind of question you're asking.  You're taking concepts ahead of BE-ing -- you're putting the cart before the horse -- the map before the territory.

[Naturalist]

Apple + Apple = Orange + Orange

2 Apples = 2 Oranges

2 Fruits = 2 Fruits

2-masses of molecule = 2-masses of molecule

2-masses of atom = 2-masses of atom

2-elements = 2-elements

 

Nothing is a phenomenon.

Something is a phenomenon.

A phenomenon is a phenomenon. 

Nothing can be something, something can be nothing.   

At the end of the day, what remains? 

 

Merely two sides of the same coin.

 

[MarkusSweden]

22 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Although you are not enlightened I think..

 

Leo IS enlightened, it's very important that you understand that. 

The confusion comes from the role he has to act out in order to correct people that obviously got things wrong.

This forum is language based, hence based of concepts, some people are lost with concepts and have a complete wrong picture of reality(me included) 

In those cases Leo correct them and even arguing with them if needed, of course that look like as he has an ego. But that's not the case.

But see, he doesn't argue to please his ego(he has none) or to be right, or to prove his understanding or anything. Leo does it ONLY for YOUR best and for the sake of spreading this enlightenment movement with non dual understanding for the good of humanity and the world. 

Don't confuse the "ego role" that Leo acts out here and project it upon him, nothing can be further from the truth.

He as an enlightened master only play that role in order to meet people at their level of understanding to handle over the pearls of godly wisdom and insights.  

YOU SEE? 

Edited August 15, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[non_nothing]

Lol haven't yet the thread read but randomly It got me that I'm all alone in this universe and I'm the only one there have been the whole time. ALL ALONE means not sad or loneliness, wow. I can't put it to words right now. Why? Anyways I'm gonna read the post and edit with my response.

EDIT: Alright so got the half so far, seems like you've confused enough and I don't want to appear as another person to try to explain to you stuff since there's been already exalted ones there in conversation with you right now. So as I understood and my few suggestions would be you gotta watch Leo's -recontextualization video It would help you a lot.

Edited August 15, 2018 by non_nothing

[DoubleYou]

@Leo Gura What do you think of the distinction between the words nothingness and no-thingness?
As in, one pointing to the absence of anything altogether and the other pointing to the absence of "things" and objects.

Rupert Spira for example says; It's not a thing, but it's not nothing. Would you agree with that?

[Leo Gura]

@DoubleYou Form is identical to formlessness.

The Heart Sutra says it perfectly.

The only trouble is becoming so insanely conscious to see it.

It's right there under your nose. Don't go looking elsewhere. You are inside Nothingness at all times.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

That would be nice.

---------

Ok I can try to trust you. Although you are not enlightened I think..

I assume consciousness/awareness is also included in the list.

Moojis comment to your reply would be: "What sees the experience? Even that experience is seen."

He say that no matter how nice the experience is, it's not "it". There's always someone/something which sees the seer.

What's your take on that..?

Or maybe I have misunderstood something. Maybe Mooji say that to push people towards the "thing" you mentioned, so people don't stop too early. And that would be the end station so to speak, final destination.

Yes, consciousness is Nothingness. Which is why you can't grasp hold of it.

The Absolute is not an experience. It is Absolute and Mooji don't matter at that point. You are Mooji talking to yourself.

Mooji was pointing you to Nothingness.

I am not enlightned but I have seen the Absolute many times at this point from a variety of angles, deeper than some teachers.

I have seen the Heart Sutra's truth for myself, and it is true as fuck. Realizing the Heart Sutra is what you want.

[Nahm]

@SomethingFromNothing

Just throw everything away. 

Thoughts are nothing: Get a pad of paper, a pen, and a garbage can. Write down what you would otherwise post and wonder, phrase it in a question, or even your wisest answer. Then crumble the paper up and throw it in the garbage, be done with it, it wasn’t true, neither the question nor answer. Do this until you’re exhausted, until nothing else comes to mind.

Wisdom is nothing: Then meditate with a pad of paper, contemplate. When the wisdom arises, mentally discard it, let it go. Notice the mind’s craving to cling to truth, to find satisfaction in truth, to relish in this ‘newer, deeper, Truth’. When the deepest insight comes, the ‘breakthrough’ insight, the epiphany, the ‘Truth’ - let it go, it is not true. Write nothing down. Do this until that empty pad of paper is the funniest “thing” you’ve ever ‘seen’, and then throw the empty pad of paper in the garbage, it’s nothing, the no-words on it are nothing, exactly the same as the words on it are nothing. 

Left with no papers, no pad of paper, no words, no wisdom - every thought and insight that arose, is not ‘there’. All your “somethings”, arose from nothing. 

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❤️

[Samra]

@Nahm  your words just gave me the chills <3 

[Nahm]

@Samra ❤️

The wisest person I’ve ever met simply said

“it’s nonsense”.