Jordan Peterson

[Joseph Maynor]

6 hours ago, CreamCat said:

@SOUL That's what a human ego does by default. 99% of people do similar things. We are not very different from Jordan Peterson. Similarly, we are not very different from nazis.

As leo said, human ego doesn't really want equality. It wants to obtain and maintain massive unfair advantages. Saints are very rare. Most people are no saint.

People at the bottom and the top are all jockeying for power by default.

When you climb social hierarchy, exploitation happens automatically. You don't have to exploit other people. It happens automatically. That's a property of pyramid. Automatic exploitation gives people at the top plausible deniability. When people at the bottom blame people at the top, those at the top will say they are victims of blame. The daughter of bill gates will inherit a lot of money, but she did nothing wrong! The pyramid is not going away anytime soon however you feel about it.

The only relevant question is: What am I doing?

[SOUL]

@CreamCat Nope, it isn't default or automatic, you are just being intellectually cucked by someone that misrepresents research to fit his narrative. Fear of the unknown/unique/different isn't universally default or automatic. There are many people who are interested and intrigued by it so investigate without fear. In fact, it is those unafraid people who are the leaders in thought and action who have forged innovation and progress. If anything, those are the mythical 'alphas' he suggests exist at the top of his mythical 'pyramid'.

The fearful get manipulated by others who are equally fearful of those who aren't fearful so brutalize and coerce compliance through mob rule. This isn't a 'pyramid' hierarchy, that is collectivist oppression which is a blatant distortion of the protective instinct that provided security of the tribe. More popular doesn't make something more right, good or true but it is another example of his misappropriating our social nature to live in groups to support his 'socially enforced' collectivist beliefs.

Which exposes his contradictory ideology, on one hand he rails against 'groups' when it comes to individuals wanting equal rights but on the other hand he whines about the norms, which are a collective construct, being challenged by individuals wanting equal rights. He exploits the naivete and ignorance of his followers using their fear to profit himself. Then they faithfully behave like the fearful mob anytime the sacred myths are questioned filling forums and comments defending it with their ego fear.

Exploitation isn't a default of competition and a pyramid power structure isn't a default of hierarchy, although people who want to exploit and dominate over others will say it is. Those that believe it are as I suggested earlier, intellectually cucked. So, that's why there are homeless guys who have a girlfriend and incels with all the societal trappings who can't get laid. There isn't a pyramid unless you believe there is and submit yourself to it's mythic structure....that is 'meaning'.

He sure is a charismatic fellow who uses a bit of truth to appear credible but it is distorted, twisted and spun into a fabricated grand narrative that is not much more than a myth. If only he was simply being a motivational speaker with his regurgitated self help tropes but he's trying to spread his mythical belief paradigm as 'truth' and those that are fearful of the unknown are eager to climb on the lap of the mythic sky daddy that both soothes and stokes their fears.

[CreamCat]

19 hours ago, SOUL said:

@CreamCat Nope, it isn't default or automatic, you are just being intellectually cucked by someone that misrepresents research to fit his narrative.

Was I cucked by Leo Gura? I recommend watching

If you have problems with Leo Gura, you should ask him. I'm not the best person to discuss his philosophy.

Edited September 12, 2018 by CreamCat

[Viktor]

 

Here's everything you need to know about JP 
#offtopic

[SOUL]

@CreamCat  You very well may be intellectually cucked by Leo, there are many who are. Not just by Leo but by other speakers, teachers, posters, commentators, media, politicians, religions, governments and on and on.

It's not about accepting a bit of information or a certain perspective on something. We all accept something that didn't originate from our direct experience or was brought to our attention by others. It becomes 'cucking' when someone accepts another's world view or mental paradigm so that everything that one encounters it is filtered through that meta perspective and confirmation bias.

It could be that something someone points out has some commonality to what our experience is and we can gain some insight into by having been exposed to the ideas of others. Although, it is genuinely experienced when it is part of a process in which we reflect upon it, examining and questioning the experience so that any potential insight is realized for us.

It's not a matter of finding a specific commonality and then adopting the whole paradigm of another based off that. It's not studying another's opinion, story or recounting of their experience so that it is a methodical world view of dogmatic beliefs. There isn't a universal way to view experience so remembering and regurgitating the exacting details of others can be more of a stumbling block than insight.

People even get cucked by their own ego and/or self so that they are convinced their own perception is the 'truth', 'right', 100% accurate or factual. We all possess erroneous perceptions and to believe that we don't have any is delusional, hence the reason we reflect and examine our experience.

Just something to consider.

 

 

[CreamCat]

@SOUL According to your logic, you could already have been cucked by others. How do you know you are not cucked?

Edited September 13, 2018 by CreamCat

[SOUL]

@CreamCat I didn't mean to trigger you, my apologies.

[CreamCat]

I just remembered that this thread is not really about actualizing oneself.

If I was Leo Gura, I would close threads about jordan peterson and trump and whatnot to prevent people from being distracted by social issues.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, CreamCat said:

I just remembered that this thread is not really about actualizing oneself.

If I was Leo Gura, I would close threads about jordan peterson and trump and whatnot to prevent people from being distracted by social issues.

That is my natural inclination, but one of the problems with teaching self-actualization and nonduality is that people get so sucked into all sorts of twisted ideologies -- like that of JP, Sam Harris, Stefan Molyneux, SJW, capitalism, post-modernism, anti-post-modernism, etc.  -- that it becomes impossible to teach them without some amount of deconstruction work.

That is in fact the unconscious goal of people like JP, Sam Harris, Stefan Molyneux, etc. -- their job is to make the intellectual marketplace so muddied, confused, and polarized that it becomes impossible for people to find serious spiritual teachings. This is no accident. This is how the devil works: through muddying the water. The devil knows he can never win on merit because his position if fundamentally false, so all he can do is confuse people and stall out the clock.

This is a classic tactic use by global warming deniers, for example. They just need to muddy the waters and sow enough doubt to stall out the clock to get their paycheck.

So some of these devils need to be called out on their BS sometimes, to put them in their place. Otherwise the unwitting masses start to take them too seriously. An intelligent devil like JP or Sam Harris is a dangerous thing. It is not obvious how he is wrong and how best to rebut him. To a casual observer a lot of the things he says ring true and reasonable. Of course that's precisely how the devil works. He sprinkles nuggets of truth into his bullshit lasagna.

The purpose of all ideologies is to distract from truth-seeking. Which is why ideologies have been so widespread throughout all of human history up to and including today. The devil's strategy is: flood the marketplace with so much bullshit that people cannot even tell that actual Truth is possible. If you want to safeguard a precious diamond, throw it into an ocean of liquid shit full of fake diamonds. Then no one will ever find it.

[Emerald]

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is my natural inclination, but one of the problems with teaching self-actualization and nonduality is that people get so sucked into all sorts of twisted ideologies -- like that of JP, Sam Harris, Stefan Molyneux, SJW, capitalism, post-modernism, anti-post-modernism, etc.  -- that it becomes impossible to teach them without some amount of deconstruction work.

That is in fact the unconscious goal of people like JP, Sam Harris, Stefan Molyneux, etc. -- their job is to make the intellectual marketplace so muddied, confused, and polarized that it becomes impossible for people to find serious spiritual teachings. This is no accident. This is how the devil works: through muddying the water. The devil knows he can never win on merit because his position if fundamentally false, so all he can do is confuse people and stall out the clock.

This is a classic tactic use by global warming deniers, for example. They just need to muddy the waters and sow enough doubt to stall out the clock to get their paycheck.

So some of these devils need to be called out on their BS sometimes, to put them in their place. Otherwise the unwitting masses start to take them too seriously. An intelligent devil like JP or Sam Harris is a dangerous thing. It is not obvious how he is wrong and how best to rebut him. To a casual observer a lot of the things he says ring true and reasonable. Of course that's precisely how the devil works. He sprinkles nuggets of truth into his bullshit lasagna.

The purpose of all ideologies is to distract from truth-seeking. Which is why ideologies have been so widespread throughout all of human history up to and including today. The devil's strategy is: flood the marketplace with so much bullshit that people cannot even tell that actual Truth is possible. If you want to safeguard a precious diamond, throw it into an ocean of liquid shit full of fake diamonds. Then no one will ever find it.

Perfectly said! 

[Joseph Maynor]

THE DEVIL IS NEVER ‘OUT THERE’, HE’S ALWAYS ‘IN HERE’ — THE DEVIL CAN ONLY EXIST IF GOD FORGETS WHO GOD IS — WORDS LIKE ‘GOD’ AND ‘DEVIL’ SHOULD ONLY BE USED IN THE CONTEXT OF TRUE SPIRITUALITY A.K.A. STRICT NON-DUALITY

The only Devil is the Lure into having your Awareness enmeshed within Thought and Experience a.k.a. Maya.  The Devil is not ‘out there’ he’s ‘in here’.  You gotta flip that finger that wants to point externally around 180 degrees.  The Devil can only exist when you’re distracted outward in Thought and Experience rather than being focused inward at the true Self. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

On 9/11/2018 at 9:32 AM, SOUL said:

@CreamCat Nope, it isn't default or automatic, you are just being intellectually cucked by someone that misrepresents research to fit his narrative. Fear of the unknown/unique/different isn't universally default or automatic. There are many people who are interested and intrigued by it so investigate without fear. In fact, it is those unafraid people who are the leaders in thought and action who have forged innovation and progress. If anything, those are the mythical 'alphas' he suggests exist at the top of his mythical 'pyramid'.

The fearful get manipulated by others who are equally fearful of those who aren't fearful so brutalize and coerce compliance through mob rule. This isn't a 'pyramid' hierarchy, that is collectivist oppression which is a blatant distortion of the protective instinct that provided security of the tribe. More popular doesn't make something more right, good or true but it is another example of his misappropriating our social nature to live in groups to support his 'socially enforced' collectivist beliefs.

Which exposes his contradictory ideology, on one hand he rails against 'groups' when it comes to individuals wanting equal rights but on the other hand he whines about the norms, which are a collective construct, being challenged by individuals wanting equal rights. He exploits the naivete and ignorance of his followers using their fear to profit himself. Then they faithfully behave like the fearful mob anytime the sacred myths are questioned filling forums and comments defending it with their ego fear.

Exploitation isn't a default of competition and a pyramid power structure isn't a default of hierarchy, although people who want to exploit and dominate over others will say it is. Those that believe it are as I suggested earlier, intellectually cucked. So, that's why there are homeless guys who have a girlfriend and incels with all the societal trappings who can't get laid. There isn't a pyramid unless you believe there is and submit yourself to it's mythic structure....that is 'meaning'.

He sure is a charismatic fellow who uses a bit of truth to appear credible but it is distorted, twisted and spun into a fabricated grand narrative that is not much more than a myth. If only he was simply being a motivational speaker with his regurgitated self help tropes but he's trying to spread his mythical belief paradigm as 'truth' and those that are fearful of the unknown are eager to climb on the lap of the mythic sky daddy that both soothes and stokes their fears.

Interesting.

[Brittany]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

THE DEVIL IS NEVER ‘OUT THERE’, HE’S ALWAYS ‘IN HERE’

The only Devil is the Lure into having your Awareness enmeshed within Thought and Experience a.k.a. Maya.  The Devil is not ‘out there’ he’s ‘in here’.  You gotta flip that finger that wants to point externally around 180 degrees.  The Devil can only exist when you’re distracted outward in Thought and Experience rather than being focused inward at the true Self. 

You are right. 

But Leo knows his post is within the maya. 

Leo swims into the maya and meets the ego face to face. Whereas, many other spiritual teachers fly above the maya and speak to the ego through riddles and non-dual speech. 

It's just a different approach.

[Joseph Maynor]

24 minutes ago, Brittany said:

You are right. 

But Leo knows his post is within the maya. 

Leo swims into the maya and meets the ego face to face. Whereas, many other spiritual teachers fly above the maya and speak to the ego through riddles and non-dual speech. 

It's just a different approach.

It’s best not to use spiritual words like ‘Devil’ outside of a strict non-dual context.  Otherwise that’s gonna cause a lot of finger-pointing and suffering.  The reality is that you create the Devil, no one else does.  So, the Devil is never ‘out there’, he’s always ‘in here’.   And that’s great because it means you have 100% control to do something to eradicate the Devil and that is not to surrender to Egoic distractions.  

God and the Devil cannot exist in the same room at the same time.  If the Devil exists that’s because you’re creating him.  You create the Devil when you forget who you are; namely, God, the true Self.  The Devil can’t do sh*t to God when God knows who He is.  That’s the true sustainable solution to Devilry.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[yawning_]

@Joseph Maynor

well clarified! - not that anything is safe to assume, but @Leo Gura seems to be aware of this [distinction that is of mind]

40 minutes ago, Brittany said:

It's just a different approach.

an honorable one at that!

 

 

ň̖͍̦̞̪̦̱̪̗̙̹̫̽̏̈ͧ͌̋̆͆͛̈́̑̆͑ͮ̃̐͐à̘͖̣̘̮͍͍̣͖̳̰ͪ͛͌̂ͬ͐̍m̘̱̬̞͔̥̻͕͈̪ͭ͌̇ͨ̒̎ͯͤͫ̽ͭͣͣ͛̚̚ā̼͕̩͇̯̱̫̱̗͔̞͚̤͖̝̭͕͕͂̔ͤ͗ͮș͕̰͔͙̓̑͑͋̇͐̓ͥͧ̈̌t̞̖̫͓̮̊͊͋̇ė͎͙̱̻̹͚̙̱͎͙̞͐̽̾̉͋̚
 

- yawning gap

[Leo Gura]

In Zen, they just wack people like JP and Sam Harris across the face.

You have to appreciate that most nondual teachers are preaching to the choir. They only teach that tiny percentage of the population which is already primed and ripe for the teaching. They make no effort to prime the rest of the population. You either come begging the Zen master for a teaching, or you have no chance to even enter the Zendo.

It's one game to teach primed people nonduality.

It's another game entirely to prime the vulgar masses to be receptive to nonduality.

If you want to make your life easy as a teacher, you only teach students who are Spiral stages Green and above. The really hard work is teaching Orange and below, who are dense, arrogant, and numerous as fuck.

[CreamCat]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

So some of these devils need to be called out on their BS sometimes, to put them in their place.

My impression is that you haven't worked hard enough on forum comments to be effective enough. Your creative genius reveals itself in videos. An example of ineffective move is calling trump a fucking moron on the forum which doesn't help much to deconstruct BS but caters to people who already hate trump.

I know you can't put as much effort into comments as you put into videos, but it will be better if you do a bit more.

Edited September 14, 2018 by CreamCat

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, CreamCat said:

My impression is that you haven't worked hard enough on forum comments to be effective enough. Your creative genius reveals itself in videos. An example of ineffective move is calling trump a fucking moron on the forum which doesn't help much to deconstruct BS but caters to people who already hate trump.

I know you can't put as much effort into comments as you put into videos, but it will be better if you do a bit more.

TEACHING PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT CAN CAP YOU OUT AT STAGE TURQUOISE IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT WORK

I decided not to be a Personal Development teacher as a career after all.  It kinda caps your own Personal Development at Stage Turquoise (maximum)  because you gotta be constantly swimming around in Maya like a sponge soaking it all in constantly.  I get it.  But that’s a system that one can avoid with a different career choice, and all careers have their pros and cons.  The Personal Development teacher is stuck in a game of their own creation, as are all of us.  The only way you can be Enlightened is to exit the game in a very profound way like a monk does almost.  The Personal Development teacher has gotta make a living so his hand is forced to stir the pot in all this stuff, which causes him suffering no doubt because he knows what he’s involved with.  There are few clean ways to make a living, even if you decide to go the do-gooder route.  You couldn’t pay me enough money to sit around and bitch about Donald Trump because I know everything is me.  The best I can do is detach from Donald Trump and never think about him.  I wish him well, but Donald Trump is laughing all the way to the bank while I sit around whining about him, see.  It’s just not a scenario that I want to find myself in.  

Being a teacher keeps you a kid on some level basically.  Nobody ever really thinks about that.  You’re dealing with kids, so you kinda have to be one to deal with them as a teacher.  You can’t pull yourself out of Maya as a teacher because you’re buried up to your eyeballs in the worst part of it — namely, the people most attached to Ego, young people and people with problems coming to you for help.  That’s basically the burden that the teacher bears; the teacher’s sacrifice.  I’m so glad I learned this because I was setting myself up for a career as a Personal Development teacher.  I’d almost rather be a freelance plumber than a Personal Development teacher at this point.  The best thing would be not to have to work for money at all, frankly.  The second best thing would be to have a job that doesn’t impede your own Personal Development.  The problem with embedding yourself in Maya is that everything gets reversed.  Everything flips topsy-turvy in Maya.  Even the go-gooder gets lured by the Devil and ends up in Hell when he attaches to Maya.  The only sustainable solution to the suffering caused by Maya is to consciously pull yourself out of all it, out of the whole game, out of all Thought and Experience.  Then you can be at peace, see.  Trying to save the world leads to a life of suffering because you’re a do-gooder in Maya.  You’re willingly putting yourself into Maya trying to improve Maya.  See the problem there?  It’s deep.  

I’m just glad I figured this out before I did the same thing myself -- and I just recently figured this out too.  Turquoise doesn’t figure this out.  You gotta move into Stage Coral before you start to fully see the trap of being a Personal Development teacher (or otherwise savior of the world) and why it leads to a life of suffering even if your intention is to do good in the world or change the world in some way.  The martyr sacrifices his own Personal Development to help others basically.  And that’s just a trade-off that I do not want.  I’ll still teach in my life, I can tell, but very informally and only as a hobby.  That way I can get away from it easily when I become too attached.  At the end of the day, you’re just talking to yourself as a teacher anyway -- literally -- which I keenly see now.  If it doesn’t help your Personal Development to teach, then teaching is worthless to you.  I think of the poor community college teacher teaching the same math class every year — what a pity that job is!  If you’re gonna teach, at least teach in a way that directly goes to your own growth because you’re the only thing in existence.  The best that teaching others can do is teach you.  If you're not teaching yourself in your teaching, then that's a red flag.  Heed it or don't heed it, but it's a red flag nonetheless.  The reason why is that the only progress you can make in Personal Development is when you focus inward or when stuff gets focused inward in a way that grows you.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[lostinsauce]

Wait u forgot that Leo got rid of his negative emotions.. lolllol bro u realize how much u r projecting right? All that stuff your saying about Leo ur saying it ab urself too loool cmon now w all this criticsm ? he living up to his purpose and stuff u really trying to shit on him wow bro u mad 

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat I didn't call him a fucking moron, the former US Secretary of State did

Forum comments are my version of Lays potatoes chips. Can't take this shit too seriously or you'll go insane trying to out-logic all the nonsense that exists on the internet.

Many things don't even rise to the level of warranting a serious reply, in which case ridicule and snark becomes an effective tool. It's the equivalent of a Zen slap across the face.

Someone like Trump has not earned enough respect to be reasoned with. Sometimes you gotta call devils for devils when you see them. Pretending that a devil is not a devil just to sound "fair" is actually untruthful. And that's exactly what a devil like Trump will try to exploit to his advantage.

The middle ground between truth and falsehood is falsehood.