Jordan Peterson

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat I'm curious, how many scholarly feminist books have you read?

Please post us a number.

[Brittany]

I think I am starting to realize how Peterson is Blue Stage. 

He pushes sacrifice, marriage, kids, working hard and being responsible, and is trying to bring the Bible to the mainstream world.

His videos sound like sermons at church - brought down to a "washed down" level that Atheists and Agnostics won't run away from.

He can instill Biblical principles into people and they don't even realize what is happening. If he mixes Bible topics, mythology, and Disney movies all in one package, people will be less suspicious.

Well done Peterson. haha 

Genius, really. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Brittany

[Leo Gura]

@Brittany I would not classify him as purely stage Blue. He is definitely much more nuanced than a solid Blue person. Solid Blue is like Mike Pence or Jerry Falwell.

Peterson is not a religious fundamentalist.

He is very Orange with stripes of Blue and some hints of Yellow, and a big inflammed Green shadow.

[CreamCat]

@Leo Gura Zero. I don't claim that what I described is real feminism. All I can say about feminism is people who claim to be feminists in real life. At least, I know that those radical ones and their allies are not real feminists according to dictionary or in an academic sense. I perceive it as a serious impostor problem. However, some feminist or gender-study professors also expressed verbal support for radical feminism. It seems impostors reside in academia, too. It makes sense because some biology professors spout bullshits like "Vitamin D generated from the sun is not the same as Vitamin D from Tuna."

It is said that most self-proclaimed feminists didn't read any feminist book, either.

I heard radical feminists in my country work very hard on suppressing other kinds of feminists.

Sturgeon's Law states that 90% of everything is crap. Bad currency drives out good because it is so easy to produce bad currency. Trolls and psychopaths drive out good people through sheer force of arguments when there is no proper immune system. Islam was supposed to be like actualized.org, but fundamentalists hijacked islam a long time ago.

I suspect infinite intelligence is forging a worse version of trump for my country.

Edited September 8, 2018 by CreamCat

[Brittany]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Brittany I would not classify him as purely stage Blue. He is definitely much more nuanced than a solid Blue person. Solid Blue is like Mike Pence or Jerry Falwell.

Peterson is not a religious fundamentalist.

He is very Orange with stripes of Blue and some hints of Yellow, and a big inflammed Green shadow.

I agree. In order to make Atheists  want to hear about the Bible, which many have failed at,  he is quite progressive. 

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

@Leo Gura 0.

Of course, because you are just reacting to it from ego identity.

That's your problem right there. It would be wise to actually do some reading and research before talking about feminism.

I would bet that 98% of JP fan have not read a single feminist work. That is the whole appeal of JP: he offers and ideology with which to demonize and attack others without doing an serious research into their POV and why post-modernism arose in the first place.

This whole JP fandom is rooted in lack of education.

You must learn to take on other points of view, not just insist on your own being right. All POVs are partial and relative.

That is the lesson of post-modernism which is being missed by JP fans. They do not give a rats ass about seriously exploring other POVs. Which requires reading and research.

[CreamCat]

@Leo Gura I don't deny that I am reacting to it from my ego agenda. It just appears that radical feminists are successful at suppressing other kinds of feminism in my country. They performed a lot of publicity stunts on media recently. They are good at making people believe that radical feminism is the mainstream. There weren't publicity stunts a few years ago.

Radical feminism is a fad in my country for now. I can say that they are working very hard to expand their influence.

It looks like game of thrones to me. It's just that radical feminism is in throne at the moment. All I can relate to is game of thrones going on in media. This game of thrones has almost nothing to do with feminism. I also heard some rich people funded radical feminism to divert people's attention from important issues through publicity stunts. Many young women think radical feminism is hip and cool.

I'd like you to consider the possibility that people who claim to be feminists are also following their ego agenda. Most people are sheeps that just follow latest trends. Feminism is in big trouble.

Quote

It would be wise to actually do some reading and research before talking about feminism.

I think actual feminism would be different from media queens who claim to be radical feminists. I don't think I need a book to talk about game of thrones played on media by self-proclaimed radical feminists. I think it's not feminism but game of thrones.

Quote

This whole JP fandom is rooted in lack of education.

I'm not a fan of JP although I was impressed by his verbal skills when he conversed with Cathy Newman. I watched only a handful videos of JP. My first impression of feminism came from publicity stunts, not from JP. I live very very far from USA and Canada where people don't speak english. JP doesn't have a lot of influence here.

Quote

he offers and ideology with which to demonize and attack others without doing an serious research into their POV and why post-modernism arose in the first place.

I'm not against feminism or post-modernism per se. Post-modernists made mistakes such as believing there is no truth until trump became the president and said there was no truth. There are people who are dogmatic about feminism or post-modernism. But, I don't know much about it to have a strong opinion about it. What I am against is self-proclaimed radical feminists who are big on media. I also don't like dogmatism which is like believing that black hole is absolutely real. There are always holes in a theory that expose a theory's fictitious nature. I intuit that feminism and post-modernism are ultimately fictions as much as black hole theory and science are. I don't have absolute trust in fictions.

Edited September 8, 2018 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat How would you know if you can't even be bothered to read 5 books on the subject?

How about you read 5 books written by feminists and 5 books written by post-modernists, and then we talk.

[CreamCat]

@Leo Gura Are you implying that radical feminists on media could be actual feminists and they actually make sense as feminists in feminist point of view? Are you implying that actual feminists have valid reasons to support so-called radical feminists? What am I missing? I don't need to read those books to understand game of thrones in disguise of (radical) feminism. I cannot imagine on my own how murder fantasies can be sympathized with by feminism.

I was once a nationalist and fantasized murdering foreign people who invaded us in the past, but I never talked about my fantasies. I eventually realized foreign people are just like us. Oh my god, I fantasized killing innocent people. I recognized myself as a murderous asshole that I was. I am a completely different person now. Is feminism like my version of nationalism?

Can you summarize what you want to convey in a few sentences or a few paragraphs? I don't want to wait until I read 5~10 books. I'm quite bogged down with my own work. I will need some serious motivation to even consider reading feminist books or post-modernism books.

Edited September 9, 2018 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat I am implying that you are uneducated about the topics you speak so passionately about.

In fact, your passion is no accident. It is there precisely so that you don't feel the need to pick up a book.

I am not going to explain feminism or post-modernism to you on a forum because these are nuanced topics which entire books have been written about and which require years of study to understand properly. These are not conversations for online keyboard jockeys. These are serious intellectual pursuits.

[CreamCat]

@Leo Gura What about murderous bitches? Do I need a book to know that I should avoid them? I mean, practically it's enough to know that I should avoid murderous bitches and their public allies especially when I'm one of the targets of their murder fantasies. What most people care about is practical safety measures.

You are focused on nuances. I'm focused on practicality and what to do about them personally. My personal policy is to avoid them and not assume they are actual feminists because feminism is a deep topic. I'm passionate about my own practicality for most topics. My real passion is reserved for a few topics related to my life purpose and my job.

What can you speak in a practical point of view? Did you not say we should practically cut toxic people out of our lives in one of your videos?

Edited September 9, 2018 by CreamCat

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, CreamCat said:

@Leo Gura I don't deny that I am reacting to it from my ego agenda. It just appears that radical feminists are successful at suppressing other kinds of feminism in my country. They performed a lot of publicity stunts on media recently. They are good at making people believe that radical feminism is the mainstream. There weren't publicity stunts a few years ago.

Radical feminism is a fad in my country for now. I can say that they are working very hard to expand their influence.

It looks like game of thrones to me. It's just that radical feminism is in throne at the moment. All I can relate to is game of thrones going on in media. This game of thrones has almost nothing to do with feminism. I also heard some rich people funded radical feminism to divert people's attention from important issues through publicity stunts. Many young women think radical feminism is hip and cool.

I'd like you to consider the possibility that people who claim to be feminists are also following their ego agenda. Most people are sheeps that just follow latest trends. Feminism is in big trouble.

I think actual feminism would be different from media queens who claim to be radical feminists. I don't think I need a book to talk about game of thrones played on media by self-proclaimed radical feminists. I think it's not feminism but game of thrones.

I'm not a fan of JP although I was impressed by his verbal skills when he conversed with Cathy Newman. I watched only a handful videos of JP. My first impression of feminism came from publicity stunts, not from JP. I live very very far from USA and Canada where people don't speak english. JP doesn't have a lot of influence here.

I'm not against feminism or post-modernism per se. Post-modernists made mistakes such as believing there is no truth until trump became the president and said there was no truth. There are people who are dogmatic about feminism or post-modernism. But, I don't know much about it to have a strong opinion about it. What I am against is self-proclaimed radical feminists who are big on media. I also don't like dogmatism which is like believing that black hole is absolutely real. There are always holes in a theory that expose a theory's fictitious nature. I intuit that feminism and post-modernism are ultimately fictions as much as black hole theory and science are. I don't have absolute trust in fictions.

You seem to have great trust in yourself.

Trump doesn't say there's no truth. He's doing the opposite, actually.

[CreamCat]

24 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Trump doesn't say there's no truth. He's doing the opposite, actually.

On https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38191313/no-truth-in-journalism-trump-voters-cast-wide-net-for-news, trump said there is no truth in journalism. He said that probably because some news media attacked him.

On https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838, trump's lawyer said "truth isn't truth".

Trump and his lawyer demonstrated that relativism can be abused. They figuratively slapped post-modernists in their faces because post-modernists used to say there is no truth, too.

Edited September 9, 2018 by CreamCat

[Forestluv]

Some facinating exchanges going on here.

[CreamCat]

@Leo Gura Perhaps, you should make videos about feminism someday so that we can at least know what is and is not feminism.

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat I will make a video about Post-Modernism at some point.

And probably one on Jordan Peterson specifically. Although I do not want to get into debates with his cult like followers. They will not be open to hearing what they need hear about him. So there will be a lot of stage Orange denial.

[Dinesh Karki]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

one on Jordan Peterson specifically

Don't make video on Jordan Peterson. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

15 hours ago, CreamCat said:

On https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-38191313/no-truth-in-journalism-trump-voters-cast-wide-net-for-news, trump said there is no truth in journalism. He said that probably because some news media attacked him.

On https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45241838, trump's lawyer said "truth isn't truth".

Trump and his lawyer demonstrated that relativism can be abused. They figuratively slapped post-modernists in their faces because post-modernists used to say there is no truth, too.

Saying there is no truth in journalism as a hard core fact = presenting it as 'a truth' that there is no truth in journalism :-) 

You got very little clue about what post-modernism and deconstruction is. That's clear. To say that all that deconstruction is saying is 'that there is no absolute truth' is a gross oversimplification of what deconstruction actually is.
 

 
This is actually a great little video giving some key insights into what Derrida was up to with his "deconstruction".

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, Dinesh Karki said:

Don't make video on Jordan Peterson. 

Agreed. You don't have to Leo, I think. if you do it anyway, make it somewhat short and precise with a Spiral Dynamics-perspective

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Caterpillar said:

I think someone who doesn't like feminism is never going to read a book about it.

Exactly