Jordan Peterson

[CreamCat]

@Emerald Let me state my position clearly once and for all. I don't want to speak about this any further. I wish you respected my wish not to talk about this any further.

I'm not really worried about being killed. The possibility that someone finds out funny things about me and makes fun of me is such a bother that I just want to walk away. Convincing you of anything is not that important. Feminism may be important to you, but convincing anyone of anything about it is less important than my operational security.

If you wanted to find the truths about feminism, you should go meet various kinds of feminists instead of believing me. Perhaps, I was wrong. I don't know. I just stand by what I saw. It's fine to not believe me.

If you really insist a resolution, let's agree to disagree on feminism.

Edited August 22, 2018 by CreamCat

[WaveInTheOcean]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, it's very simple. All that nihilism really boils down to is that being is meaningless. Which is what nonduality reveals.

That's all.

But the ego-mind don't want to accept that. To the ego-mind it seems negative or depressing or chaotic.

You gotta be very careful though. Meaninglessness does not mean what you think it means.

You don't need to dive deep into nihilism per se. You just need to become conscious that ego-mind constructs all meaning for the purpose of its survival.

Reality is meaningless indeed. But it's also full of meaning, just look around.

What I'm saying is that reality is <"insert anything"-less> , i.e it's nothing, but it's also everything. 

Yes objectively speaking there is no deeper meaning.
But, there exists no objective viewpoint.
Subjectively speaking there exists meaning everywhere.

So to say it more directly, reality has infinite potential for an infinite multitude of meanings exactly cos it is completely meaningless.

[Emerald]

Just now, CreamCat said:

@Emerald Let me state my position clearly once and for all. I don't want to speak about this any further.

I'm not really worried about being killed. The possibility that someone finds out funny things about me and makes fun of me is such a bother that I just want to walk away. Convincing you of anything is not that important. Feminism may be important to you, but it is less important than my operational security.

If you wanted to find the truths about feminism, you should go meet various kinds of feminism instead of believing me. Perhaps, I was wrong. I don't know. I just stand by what I saw. Don't believe me.

Give me evidence from a reputable source if you want me to consider what you're saying.

It's not that I'm so attached to Feminism. There are many schools of thoughts within Feminism that I disagree with vehemently. Feminism is such a broad umbrella topic, that there are more types of Feminism than there are flavors of Baskin Robbins ice cream. And some are diametrically opposed to one another. So, it wouldn't be shocking to me to find a group of Feminists that I disagreed with or thought were unethical. In fact, that's pretty much a guarantee if you're a Feminist, because the types of Feminism are so varied. 

So, I could believe that there's some fringe group of Feminists number in the 100-500 member range worldwide who believe that men should die or whatever.

That said, I don't believe that there's some one million member group of Feminists that are ready to mobilize and eat male babies. 

So, understand, I'm not very attached to Feminism, I just find great social value is calling out propagandists. Propagandists cause so many social issue that can lead to some really ugly things. So, I have no qualms with calling you out on your lies. 

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Reality is meaningless indeed. But it's also full of meaning, just look around.

What I'm saying is that reality is <"insert anything"-less> , i.e it's nothing, but it's also everything. 

Yes objectively speaking there is no deeper meaning.
But, there exists no objective viewpoint.
Subjectively speaking there exists meaning everywhere.

So to say it more directly, reality has infinite potential for an infinite multitude of meanings exactly cos it is completely meaningless.

It's one thing to say that, it's a totally nother thing to actually realize that in your life.

The real test is when the shit hits of fan. When someone tells you your child was run over by the bus. How conscious will you be of the fact that you create meaning?

[Brittany]

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A Bodhisattva is someone who has awakened.

That ain't JP.

We have to be really careful with this though. haha I used to be a Christian and this sounds like my dad when he would say "They aren't true Christians." due to the things someone would say.

With Bodhisattva's, the definition is "a person who is able to reach nirvana but delays doing so out of compassion in order to save suffering beings.". Bodhisattva's are tricky characters because they may not necessary speak about awakening with the public, but they know of it in their inner life. They are not necessarily obvious and outspoken in the way that maybe Eckhart Tolle or Alan Watts are.

It's through small Freudian slips and pointers that make you realize "oh, maybe this guy or girls is awake but is just hiding it because they think it would be more effective if they did." Jordan Peterson comes across to me as a Christian mystic , who might have awakened haha, who is trying to bridge the gap between Christianity and science. And he needs to tread really carefully with this.

When a friend or a coworker seems to be having a problem, I do not speak to them about non-duality. In many of my social circles, I do not think it would be helpful to push people towards "awakening". Sometimes the next best step is to help people within the dream and give them a sense of relief within the dream. Which I think Jordan Peterson seems to be doing.

haha But you are right, I do need to take Peterson off the pedestal I put him on though. And maybe I have rose colored glasses on when I watch his videos. And I need to be more critical about his work.

[Leo Gura]

@Brittany It's obvious to me that Peterson does not have a direct consciousness of God/Absolute.

He speaks of God way too theoretically and indirectly. As if he read about it in a book.

He is not a mystic, he is an academic with some Christian leanings.

[CreamCat]

@Spacious I have only watched a few videos of jordan peterson. His debate with cathy newman was the video that introduced jordan peterson to me for the first time. He was very good at defeating the opponent verbally, but I was also amazed by how he used gender politics to make himself known to the public.

I didn't see much point in gender politics. Perhaps, gender politics was necessary to make jordan peterson a famous man. Gender politics made Milo Yiannopoulos famous, too. Milo Yiannopoulos is a fun guy.

Other videos of jordan peterson were not as impressive as that debate. To me, leo's videos have more practical value. Leo is a practical guy. I'm looking forward to his life purpose course which I will take soon.

What is the value of jordan peterson's videos for you?

Edited August 22, 2018 by CreamCat

[Brittany]

20 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

What is the value of jordan peterson's videos for you?

His political videos and the viral edited videos are crap. Skip those.

Go to Jordan Peterson's youtube page then click Videos then click Sort By then click Date added (oldest).

This is where his good content is. I am watching all of his old lecture videos during my commute to work. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It's one thing to say that, it's a totally nother thing to actually realize that in your life.

The real test is when the shit hits of fan. When someone tells you your child was run over by the bus. How conscious will you be of the fact that you create meaning?

That's true. I don't know yet, but we'll found out if that ever happens. It will probably hurt. I mean even if you're on a very high level of awakening, it will still hurt you if your child gets run over by a bus and dies. I think the difference is, that a higher-conscious person will allow it to hurt a lot and get over it much quicker than a person who clings too much and resists too much. The person who deeply knows that life is fundamentally just a theater play will play his role and cry for his child, but will get over it and move over to a new role in the play much sooner, cos it's not fun to watch a theater play where the same actor cries for too long time:D

[Brittany]

4 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

That's true. I don't know yet, but we'll found out if that ever happens. It will probably hurt. I mean even if you're on a very high level of awakening, it will still hurt you if your child gets run over by a bus and dies. I think the difference is, that a higher-conscious person will allow it to hurt a lot and get over it much quicker than a person who clings too much and resists too much. The person who deeply knows that life is fundamentally just a theater play will play his role and cry for his child, but will get over it and move over to a new role in the play much sooner, cos it's not fun to watch a theater play where the same actor cries for too long time:D

But what if you want to hurt? I want to suffer when that happens. I don't want the suffering to pass. I want to feel it all.

I feel like it is more beautiful to deeply feel the suffering than to get over it faster.

And that might be my own delusion and insanity.

[WaveInTheOcean]

2 hours ago, Brittany said:

But what if you want to hurt? I want to suffer when that happens. I don't want the suffering to pass. I want to feel it all.

I feel like it is more beautiful to deeply feel the suffering than to get over it faster.

And that might be my own delusion and insanity.

Great comment Brittany. That's the drama of life, that's the beauty of it, the insanity of it, the thrill of it. Ultimately when people suffer a lot, it's God suffering, it's God's choice to suffer, so to speak, so it's perfect.
Everything is perfect, ultimately speaking. Relatively speaking, a lot of shit is going on the world now lol .. *cough* trump *cough*.

[Strikr]

ok leo isn't wrong about JP, there is some gold, but a tons of bs aswell ( as in anything ). He has a agenda being aware of it is great, but if he is a bridge in "spiral dynamic awakening"  ( like transcend blue to orange ) where is the bad in it ?

maybe we shouldn't demonize him, cause he just do his part. 

You can't be a "green or yellow" thinker, if you didn't get the limit of "orange/blue" so peterson push those limit on people, is that wrong ?

I think in 10 years he will be probably yellow ( or not, who knows ) if he study really more than just making monney maybe he will. But why hate on him ? is popularity is maybe going too far, but he isn't as evil as anyone else ( maybe just be careful listening to him, but this advice work on anything, even you leo ( but you told so, so .. ). He try "to undestand", and that is a good fundamental for advance the whole society.
 

Just imagine a world full of "turquoise", what would happen ?

I'll be complete HS, but do you all think of "Nietzshe" ( who is cited many times by peterson ) was a orange ? He was non dual and didn't believe in "moral" or christian value, he doesn't believed in materialistic happiness, he doesn't believed in happiness in fact as a true state, but only like a delusion of english culture. ( he say german wasn't hungry for "having a pleasurable life" he told this is an english delusion value )

I m reading currently Nietzshe and his view on spirituality isn't : blue/orange/green. ( to me ); and he was aware of the WHOLE idea of budhism ( and was thinking it was the most "smart" dogma value, because .. read him if you want to know, me talking about it, I reduce his view on it ) 

Budhism look a lot like a soft version of nihilism, and most people here are old nihilist. Why "nihilist" are pushed to budhism spirituality ?

 

so maybe he isn't yellow, but he is surely not in the first tier, maybe he is just a bridge to yellow without being one, cause at his time, no one was even "orange/green", but mostly all blue.

 maybe complete outcast from the spiral, but if you give me his "place", I would watch for cue.

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by Strikr

[Brivido]

@Leo Gura Have you actually read his book? Sometimes I get the feeling that you just skim over other people content and like to point out everything that is wrong with it. That's the same thing you have done with RSD Tyler, I have watched countless of his videos, and they have been invaluable for my growth, who cares if sometimes he says something that is not spiritually evolved or enlightenment wise correct. 

I definitely agree with you, there are many things wrong with the pick up community, but that's mainly because the people that are just starting out are completely lost in their life, and all they want is to get laid. But there is much more depth than that in what Tyler is teaching in most of his videos. 

For instance, I don't agree with all of your teachings, but that didn't stop me from gaining INVALUABLE insights from your videos.

I think that if you would actually read Jordan Peterson's book, you will find it interesting and valuable, or at least entertaining, and you would still learn a thing or two.    

I think you still get into paradigm locks from time to time, isn't it what happened with psychedelics? Funny how things have changed   

There are so many parallels that could be done with what Jordan Peterson is saying in this lecture and spiritual enlightenment.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Brivido Once you become conscious enough, you can pick up a book, read a few pages of it, and you will immediately know the quality of the mind who wrote it and how conscious it is.

I read a few pages of Maps Of Meaning but couldn't bother reading any more. It would be a waste of my time. Hundreds of pages of academic talk which sound deep but are actually pretty shallow.

I have hundreds of books on my bookshelf which I have to be very selective about. These days, most of the books I buy I cannot read because they are just written by people who are too low consciousness for me. I read a chapter or two and basically throw it away.

Once in a while I stumble upon a really brilliant book written by a genius. But this is getting rarer and rarer. I sometimes wonder why I even read at all, since at this point I can basically derive all the deepest truths of life simply through contemplation using my journal.

But I still read, holding out hope for some rare brilliant gem.

It's possible to know and not read, and to read and not really know. Most of modern academia is just book smarts without any deep wisdom.

Just consider, the time you invest watching JP videos about Biblical myths might be better spent contemplating your direct experience. Or not. Discover what works for you at your level.

If JP works for you, have at it. Personally, I have bigger fish to fry.

[Strikr]

and who is the last genius you read ?

 

[JohnnyRocket]

@RendHeaven Thank you! That was a great response, with much to consider.

[JohnnyRocket]

@WaveInTheOcean thanks! The perspective your presenting is very relevant to me and my circumstances. As a 50 yr old professional and father of 7 young children, I am deep in the throws of a 3 year old existential crisis. I've been deeply studying mysticism with Tolle, Thich Nhat Han, Deepak Chopra, The Vedas, Tao Te Ching, meditation & contemplating with and without enthiogens.

JP Seems to have some insights that may help me find my way towards a path where I can continue pursuing my nondualistic spiritual quest, while simultaneously existing and performing within the dualistic construct for the purpose of maintaining an income and a household while raising a healthy, well adjusted family. Enthiogens can be useful, very long Meditation retreats aren't yet an option for me.

So I seek the most ideal ways to exist, learn and grow in such a way that integrates both my spiritual pursuits  and my obligations to raise my children within the human construct that we exist in.

 

 

[stevegan928]

@Feel Good Anyone else find this Feel Good guy a little illogical? He's just spewing ad hominem  attacks at the zen guy for no reason other than a sneaking suspicion that he might be "creepy". 

[Shroomdoctor]

8 hours ago, stevegan928 said:

@Feel Good Anyone else find this Feel Good guy a little illogical? He's just spewing ad hominem  attacks at the zen guy for no reason other than a sneaking suspicion that he might be "creepy". 

I found the zen guy to come off as really likable and "intensely in the moment". I got the sense from the video that a direct conversation with him would be awesome. Just my opinion. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

I gotta give it to your Leo (based on your recent blog post). JP is definitely orange with a scent of blue. Yeah, he's fighting against green's increasing influence in society. 

Chomsky is a good example of yellow, and Chomsky has a way more integral view of the world than JP. Just as someone like Alan Watts had a way more integral view of the world than Chomsky.

Whereas JP is orange with a scent of blue, Sam Harris is orange with a scent of green.

It's like JP is stuck halfway between blue and orange, whereas Sam Harris is stuck halfway between orange and green.

They are both fascinating human beings, very smart, but yeah, very limited in their ability to see their own perspective... I guess you have to master green and start sniffing into yellow to be able to see your own ground.