Strong Determination sitting

[PsiloPutty]

4 minutes ago, Pernani said:

I tried to do a few strong sits b4 and what always keeps ruining them is when the pain gets really intense I start thinking abt how im gonna ruin my knees and joints! I actually used to feel knee pain when I would walk for a while during that time.

Another is: I do the do nothing technique along with it and when it starts going deep my head just lifts up automatically without me realizin it 

It sounds to me like you're falling asleep or getting damn close to it. I know my head does the same thing when I'm flirting with sleep while meditating. While sleeping is of course not "allowed" during a SD sit, having your head lift up automatically doesn't break the rules of a SD sit, since it's not a conscious movement. Same as having a twitchy muscle. If it's beyond your conscious control, and it's not caused from sleep, you're still doing a SD sit. 

[Wildcattt555]

On 8/12/2018 at 4:01 PM, Tony 845 said:

Ok, Hi I am new on this forum, I have been doing self inquiry, mantra mediation & strong determination sitting for about a year now, the longest I've ever sat for is (2 hours & 5 minutes strong sit) 

i have a some questions for everyone.

shinzen young has a video out its about 17 minutes, saying it's one of the fastest way to enlightenment, but in another interview he said he didn't become enlightened this way it was through self inquiry that really drove the nail home for him . But he also said that with the strong Sits that the pain went away & it became quiet? & that pain didn't hurt anymore so what is that like the 1st phase on enlightenment? Also after enlightenment do you still dream? Also is enlightenment the end of all anxiety? 

Also thank you Leo Gura for starting this forum you have helped me out during the worst times of my life, as well as Adyashanti, Echart, shinzen young & many other awakened/ liberated people. ?

 

I tried to create a topic about this a few days ago, it’s the only thing I’m currently interested in after trying everything. As I’m no longer interested in experiences that can’t be replicated in a sober state , no matter how “profound.”

the thing is , if you are sitting in decent position, your body is not going to be in any danger of harming itself. For most people, they will stop because the pain becomes so severe, it feels like you are causing injury.  If you sit through the excruciating pain, which fortunately comes in waves and isn’t constant due to endorfin release, you can get up after a two hour sit with no numbness or pain of any kind.  Thus the excruciating pain basically meant nothing and was a creation of the mind.  This is obvious logically, but to have that experience is pretty valuable, because the extreme states , including  the pain and mini highs  is ultimately illusory.    
 

im trying to build up to very long sits to see what the monks see, but it is so much more rewarding than regular meditation , I doubt I’ll ever meditate in comfort again.  It also forces me to meditate properly, because if I let my mind wander it will inevitably convince me to stop.

You must either focus on the pain , which paradoxically helps, or the void or pure awareness/ whatever you want to call it.

I’m betting that once I build up to 3 and 4 hour sits, it’s going to re contextualize how the body interprets emotion and not just physical pain, and will thus be extremely valuable  

 

((the first milestone referenced by the op is basically that even during the meditation the pain often completely subsides for long periods of time. This feeling is extremely empowering … like where did it go, was it even “real

Edited September 20, 2021 by Wildcattt555

[Nahm]

@Wildcattt555

The body can’t interpret emotion. This is like thinking an antenna can interpret the radio frequencies it’s receiving. The so called finite mind interprets, and misunderstanding of emotion is unfortunately how emotion is suppressed, how guidance is refused, and how suffering continues. 

I would look into the key distinctions between pain & suffering, and I found the Buddha’s teaching on this matter to be clearest & most precise.

In understanding and interpreting emotion accurately, and by accurately I mean by how you feel, an end is brought to suffering. Pain is of this world, and may or may not happen, and pain too can be transcended as of course pain too is ultimately you. But if these words resonate, start with that key distinction. 

Emotion.

Our chief want of physical, emotional & physiological well being is identical my friend. I’m no adversary, I feel it too.  

Also, strong determination sitting is a misnomer in some, in many, contexts. 

[Wildcattt555]

42 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

Is it a problem if i think/thoughts don't stop?

It definitely makes it harder to continue, but if you do, will they stop automatically at some point?

Yes they change/ lessen in intensity. But you have to fight through unpleasant thoughts and sensations in the beginning.  That’s a big part of it.  I’m still in the beginning. Never gone beyond 2 hours 
 

But I’ve had periods of “ quiet “ and some highs. remember that not the goal. 
pretty sure in theory they stop. Tibetan monks literally do this for 3 weeks straight.   That’s just speculating on your question though. Who knows what happens to them. 

[Wildcattt555]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Wildcattt555

The body can’t interpret emotion. This is like thinking an antenna can interpret the radio frequencies it’s receiving. The so called finite mind interprets, and misunderstanding of emotion is unfortunately how emotion is suppressed, how guidance is refused, and how suffering continues. 

I would look into the key distinctions between pain & suffering, and I found the Buddha’s teaching on this matter to be clearest & most precise.

In understanding and interpreting emotion accurately, and by accurately I mean by how you feel, an end is brought to suffering. Pain is of this world, and may or may not happen, and pain too can be transcended as of course pain too is ultimately you. But if these words resonate, start with that key distinction. 

Emotion.

Our chief want of physical, emotional & physiological well being is identical my friend. I’m no adversary, I feel it too.  

Also, strong determination sitting is a misnomer in some, in many, contexts.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Wildcattt555

The body can’t interpret emotion. This is like thinking an antenna can interpret the radio frequencies it’s receiving. The so called finite mind interprets, and misunderstanding of emotion is unfortunately how emotion is suppressed, how guidance is refused, and how suffering continues. 

I would look into the key distinctions between pain & suffering, and I found the Buddha’s teaching on this matter to be clearest & most precise.

In understanding and interpreting emotion accurately, and by accurately I mean by how you feel, an end is brought to suffering. Pain is of this world, and may or may not happen, and pain too can be transcended as of course pain too is ultimately you. But if these words resonate, start with that key distinction. 

Emotion.

Our chief want of physical, emotional & physiological well being is identical my friend. I’m no adversary, I feel it too.  

Also, strong determination sitting is a misnomer in some, in many, contexts. 

I really don’t understand what you are saying.  It’s definitely not about suppressing emotion.   Any more than exercise suppresses negative emotion. It just happens. 
that’s exactly what I’m saying. U sit through pain and negative emotion without suffering.    Strong determination sitting is one of the few things I can do without a teacher that I’m pretty sure is a legitimate path to less suffering / joy/peace.  It’s very straightforward. Its 100% not a way to “ suppress emotion by replacing it with pain/endorphins   The  pain isn’t constant. If it was and you just went from being in pain to at peace and blissed out and back to pain without normal meditation intervals where normal emotions arise  I would see your point. 
 

oh I see what you meant. I meant for me having strong unhealthy emotions. Not to try to numb normal unpleasant ones that are inevitable. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Wildcattt555

[RickyFitts]

1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

Is it a problem if i think/thoughts don't stop?

Only if you make it into one, if you tell yourself that the point is to have a silent mind - go into it with that belief and you'll be in for a world of frustration, because you really don't have that much control over your thoughts.

I like Adyashanti's simple meditation instruction: 'Allow everything to be as it is'. And if thoughts happen to be arising, that's just what happens to be arising in the moment, and it's not a problem.

1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

It definitely makes it harder to continue, but if you do, will they stop automatically at some point?

I think the key thing is the releasing of the underlying unresolved emotion that's driving the mental activity - once that's resolved, the mind tends to become quieter. Though fair warning, the mind may actually become busier for a time, it may get worse before it gets better. But that's perfectly normal, it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong.

[Nahm]

34 minutes ago, Wildcattt555 said:

I really don’t understand what you are saying.  It’s definitely not about suppressing emotion.   Any more than exercise suppresses negative emotion. It just happens. 
that’s exactly what I’m saying. U sit through pain and negative emotion without suffering.    

Again, it’s a suggestion and nothing more. Look into the distinction between pain & suffering. As an example, pain is localized. If a doctor asked where is the pain, it can be pointed to. Suffering arises of discordant beliefs, such as “negative emotion”. For clarity, this is fundamentally all grey at the same time, and never black & white. If that sounds vague or confusing at all, then let’s say it’s 90% grey, 10% black & white, if more amicable. Maybe one day it’s all grey, in peace. 

Quote

Strong determination sitting is one of the few things I can do without a teacher that I’m pretty sure is a legitimate path to less suffering / joy/peace.  It’s very straightforward. Its 100% not a way to “ suppress emotion by replacing it with pain/endorphins   The  pain isn’t constant. If it was and you just went from being in pain to at peace and blissed out and back to pain without normal meditation intervals where normal emotions arise  I would see your point. 

It’s not really my point at all. It’s an invitation to inspect direct experience more. Nothing more than that. If what you’re doing is working, Godspeed. That’s great. 

Quote

oh I see what you meant. I meant for me having strong unhealthy emotions. Not to try to numb normal unpleasant ones that are inevitable. 

I say this knowingly out of throwing range ?…. Unhealthy & unpleasant emotions is a belief, and is what aversion is. This is how the suffering is created, and is not how it is resolved. Again though, this is no more than opinion & suggestions. The info on my site is free. There is no ask. No product. The inspiration of what is shared is inseparable from the sharing of it. If it is not for you so to speak, no worries. I do wish you the best. 

[Wildcattt555]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Again, it’s a suggestion and nothing more. Look into the distinction between pain & suffering. As an example, pain is localized. If a doctor asked where is the pain, it can be pointed to. Suffering arises of discordant beliefs, such as “negative emotion”. 

It’s not really my point at all. It’s an invitation to inspect direct experience more. Nothing more than that. If what you’re doing is working, Godspeed. That’s great. 

I say this knowingly out of throwing range ?…. Unhealthy & unpleasant emotions is a belief, and is what aversion is. This is how the suffering is created, and is not it is resolved. Again though, this is no more than opinion & suggestions. The info on my site is free. There is no ask. No product. The inspiration of what is shared is inseparable from the sharing of it. If it is not for you so to speak, no worries. I do wish you the best. 

 

thx I’m checking it out now. Yes you got through to me.  “ if I sit long enough I can’t blunt my rage. “ I see how that could potentially turn out very bad.   That wasn’t a conscious thought I had but it is definitely a subconscious motivator as to why I’m attracted to the practice. The independence from emotion.  Thanks you for fighting through my bad spelling  grammar and  personality to reply to my posts. Much appreciated 

 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Wildcattt555

[Nahm]

@Wildcattt555

The kindness in your reply, and that damn puppy picture … ya got through to me as well. God bless. ? 

[RickyFitts]

@Judy2 You're welcome  

[WelcometoReality]

@Judy2 You can't stop the thoughts and they are no problem, they are simply what's occuring and they are what's causing the suffering. It's more of a disconnection from the thoughts and watching them.

[gettoefl]

pain is the gateway, the teacher, the tool ... push awareness into now, take each 1st letter #pain ... work with the pain to dis-attach  from this bag of bones

in my experience there is no strong determination there is only strongly developed, don't boast of great determination, it's not the way to enlightenment, just sit every day

[Wildcattt555]

On 12/14/2021 at 11:43 AM, Nahm said:

Again, it’s a suggestion and nothing more. Look into the distinction between pain & suffering. As an example, pain is localized. If a doctor asked where is the pain, it can be pointed to. Suffering arises of discordant beliefs, such as “negative emotion”. For clarity, this is fundamentally all grey at the same time, and never black & white. If that sounds vague or confusing at all, then let’s say it’s 90% grey, 10% black & white, if more amicable. Maybe one day it’s all grey, in peace. 

It’s not really my point at all. It’s an invitation to inspect direct experience more. Nothing more than that. If what you’re doing is working, Godspeed. That’s great. 

I say this knowingly out of throwing range ?…. Unhealthy & unpleasant emotions is a belief, and is what aversion is. This is how the suffering is created, and is not how it is resolved. Again though, this is no more than opinion & suggestions. The info on my site is free. There is no ask. No product. The inspiration of what is shared is inseparable from the sharing of it. If it is not for you so to speak, no worries. I do wish you the best. 

Something about this post( or our exchange yesterday) really helped me ..and caused actual  introspection. “ don’t confuse me with him, the enemy is within.” I don’t know, I was just thinking about all the people I blame for my failures, and got to a point where I saw that I’m at the root, and it couldn’t be   otherwise in any meaningful sense.   I think I was trying to bait you into coming down to my level , and when you didn’t, it triggered something.  So thank you. More than you know. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Wildcattt555

[Nahm]

@Wildcattt555

Nice try, but you underestimate my sneakiness. I was already on ‘your level’. (I’m not a levels believer ? don’t tell anyone ). No levels, no failures, non judgyness, no shame. Much love.