No way, as way, to headlessness

[Faceless]

11 minutes ago, who chit said:

Ok. Now I get it
Each arising moment is perceived as a fresh,new moment.

Indeed..

Perceived without the perceiver (the old) 

no dead-static content of “the i” (thought) meeting the dynamic-alive movement of now (what is) 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

The WHAT IS is not covered by what has been, which inevitably projects what should be. 

[who chit]

11 minutes ago, Faceless said:

The WHAT IS is not covered by what has been, which inevitably projects what should be. 

Sustained emptiness in which ever new arising's can arise and dissolve without attachment.

[Faceless]

 

6 minutes ago, who chit said:

without attachment.

Yes attachment being a movement of time-fear-anticipation. Which also is one and the same movement of desire seeking security in thought-self . 

Self feeding loop ⭕️

Edited August 10, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@who chit you see it all being one unitary movement of fear-time? 

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Faceless said:

sorry im not very good at interpreting language yet, but when I speak of this creative movement, I mean actual cessation of thought-experiencer. (Experience, knowledge, memory). In this cessation makes for a newness. Like stepping foot on a new world with a totally void mind. 

@Faceless This is it. That is the movement I am speaking about. It is not a movement through effort, but via seeing through the past.
Can you observe as the past is being accumulated and then discarded via stepping foot on a new world?

This new world is 'empty' because it is not yet populated by observation of how this movement itself works.
Once this knowledge is accumulated, the next step is taken. Into a new world.

It is not a movement of effort, of trying to understand myself. It is effortless. I can see through myself as if I saw through a fraud.
In this sense, there is an interplay of knowledge and seeing through.

This very text is a knowledge of how it works and once I can see through it, I take a next step into the 'unknown'.
It is the moment of 'death' and then, the empty observer is born.

It feels like a self-constructing tower of observers, all looking down, and the moment one is born, the other watches him and understands what he does. In doing that, the one being watched vanishes and the next is born, watching the watcher.

Edited August 10, 2018 by tsuki

[who chit]

34 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Faceless This is it. That is the movement I am speaking about. It is not a movement through effort, but via seeing through the past.
Can you observe as the past is being accumulated and then discarded via stepping foot on a new world?

This new world is 'empty' because it is not yet populated by observation of how this movement itself works.
Once this knowledge is accumulated, the next step is taken. Into a new world.

It is not a movement of effort, of trying to understand myself. It is effortless. I can see through myself as if I saw through a fraud.
In this sense, there is an interplay of knowledge and seeing through.

This very text is a knowledge of how it works and once I can see through it, I take a next step into the 'unknown'.
It is the moment of 'death' and then, the empty observer is born.

It feels like a self-constructing tower of observers, all looking down, and the moment one is born, the other watches him and understands what he does. In doing that, the one being watched vanishes and the next is born, watching the watcher.

 I very much relate to this. An excellent description of my own current experience.

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

It is the moment of 'death' and then, the empty observer is born.

 

??Indeed....death, which makes for “birth” or creation is every second. This depens dramatically when I am alone and such. It brings about a total cessation of registration, recollection, identification. 

Your experience is little different than mine, as I don’t use the text (writing) the way you do. But I am new to reading-writing. For me it is direct through whole perception-insight 

As in constant inward Awareness of psychological-thought movement. 

I like your applied text reflection idea. Pretty interesting indeed. I think because of my “nonverbal thinking” its more effortless for me to just observe inward-outward (being unitary) phenomenon. 

So a constant watching of psychological time and all its implications. 

Again, it is interesting this text approach. I’m going keep an eye on your posts, friend??

Edited August 10, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

The more and longer this awareness is in movement the less fear-time moves into the next moment. 

 

The more consistent, the less carry over. 

Not moving positively-negatively as time-self, makes for less “future” thought movement. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Faceless

[who chit]

54 minutes ago, Faceless said:

constant inward Awareness of psychological-thought movement. 

This is what I was getting at with the statement
Sustained emptiness (i.e., empty awareness) in which ever new arising's can arise and dissolve without attachment.

 

1 hour ago, who chit said:

tsuki,
the empty observer
watching the watcher

Same with this. 
Constant (sustained) empty observer (sustained empty awareness), watching, as psychological content ,("other one" being watched/I-thought,memory,knowledge) arises then dissolves/vanishes.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by who chit

[who chit]

41 minutes ago, Faceless said:

The more and longer this awareness- the less carry over

Not moving positively-negatively, the more and longer (constant/sustained), this empty awareness "is".

Edited August 10, 2018 by who chit

[Faceless]

@who chit ??

[Charlotte]

@Faceless Can you explain exactly what is meant by fragmentation please. Also, just thought I'd say while I'm here, I've been having lots of headless'ness moment's lately and I'm observing the time spent in headless'ness getting longer and longer as the weeks pass. It's absolutely blissful. 

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

@Faceless Can you explain exactly what is meant by fragmentation please. Also, just thought I'd say while I'm here, I've been having lots of headless'ness moment's lately and I'm observing the time spent in headless'ness getting longer and longer as the weeks pass. It's absolutely blissful. 

@Charlotte Let me answer this question as I understand it, with full awareness that @Faceless may mean something else.
This may be a good way to bring us closer together.

So - basically, fragmentation is the difference between yes and no. Everything, always is either yes, or no.
For example, for some people:

• Democracy is yes and totalitarianism is no
• Pizza is yes and vegetables are no
• Philosophy is yes and meditation is no
• Art is yes and pop-culture is no
• Pen is yes and pencil is no

I am not establishing valid preferences here, but giving an example of what a prototypical person may be fragmented into.
There is an attraction towards yes, and repulsion away from no. This attraction and repulsion is what fear is.
The movement of thought is the preference of one over the other in everyday situations.

The so-called conditioned mind is the mind that cannot see this movement that attracts and repulses between opposites.
The so-called unconditioned mind is the one that can see the unity of opposites (for example, the unity between democracy and totalitarianism) and acknowledges that both outcomes are the same. It is holistic in its nature.

The biggest problem with this definition of fragmentation is that the difference between yes and no is meaning. 
The unconditioned mind is the meaningless mind, and for the conditioned, meaning is yes (attractive) and  meaninglessness is no (repulsive).
To even begin working with this definition, one has to be willing to accept that meaninglessness and meaning are not mutually exclusive. Even if it appears as contradiction.

This contradiction is what is the main obstacle in transition from the meaning-seeking mind to meaningless-seeking mind.

Edited August 11, 2018 by tsuki

[tsuki]

13 hours ago, Faceless said:

Your experience is little different than mine, as I don’t use the text (writing) the way you do. But I am new to reading-writing. For me it is direct through whole perception-insight 

@Faceless It is not only about text. It's about reality itself.
Try acknowledging that the same 'thing' that goes on and lets you read this text happens all the time.
As you look around your home and see a table with a computer, you are reading reality itself.
There is no such thing as a table unless you read it. That is because you know to look for a table.
When you learned how to read - you learned to look for words and notice them in relation to the sounds people make when they speak.
In the same sense you can understand yourself as you read your own posts, you can read yourself as you look around.
In this sense, thought is not merely 'monkey chatter' that goes on forever.
Thought is everything, but since you are new to text - you may not have noticed it.

Text is just a very powerful mechanism of storing understanding so that it can be transcended through self-reflection.
If this self-reflective movement is mastered (internalized), it can be brought (or noticed) in everyday situations.
When you speak to a cashier, you may use her as a mirror to read yourself off her by observing your own reactions.
This self-reflective movement is not something to be done for the sake of something else (fear).
It is just a not-yet recognized conditioned movement of a different kind than what you call thought.

This 'tower of observers' I was speaking of lately is another dimension of time to be recognized.
Time is not only fear between exclusive opposites, but this mechanical movement can be seen within insight, or 'fear' of fear.
'Fear' is here similar, but not exactly the same than fear. Once you see the similarity it becomes much more acceptable to call it that.

[Faceless]

6 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Faceless It is not only about text. It's about reality itself.
Try acknowledging that the same 'thing' that goes on and lets you read this text happens all the time.
As you look around your home and see a table with a computer, you are reading reality itself.
There is no such thing as a table unless you read it. That is because you know to look for a table.
When you learned how to read - you learned to look for words and notice them in relation to the sounds people make when they speak.
In the same sense you can understand yourself as you read your own posts, you can read yourself as you look around.
In this sense, thought is not merely 'monkey chatter' that goes on forever.
Thought is everything, but since you are new to text - you may not have noticed it.

Text is just a very powerful mechanism of storing understanding so that it can be transcended through self-reflection.
If this self-reflective movement is mastered (internalized), it can be brought (or noticed) in everyday situations.
When you speak to a cashier, you may use her as a mirror to read yourself off her by observing your own reactions.
This self-reflective movement is not something to be done for the sake of something else (fear).
It is just a not-yet recognized conditioned movement of a different kind than what you call thought.

This 'tower of observers' I was speaking of lately is another dimension of time to be recognized.
Time is not only fear between exclusive opposites, but this mechanical movement can be seen within insight, or 'fear' of fear.
'Fear' is here similar, but not exactly the same than fear. Once you see the similarity it becomes much more acceptable to call it that.

I understand 100%, and see it the same way indeed. 

I see reflection through text as being a great way to reflect as well. I think cool that you use that as a way to reflect. And yes reflection through relationship; be it between persons and person, observation of fragmentation “me” trying to control fear and so on, is to me the best type of self refelection. To commune in relationship, so there can be a holistic understanding through the movement of, in, and as relationship. 

To me leaning-understanding in relationship is perhaps the greatest tool to self-reflection. It is for me anyway.

Well expressed post up above my friend??.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@tsuki

That is one thing that I was always rather aware of; that the word is not that which the finger points too. 

In this aspect conditioning never ran that deep. Basically non-existent. But, boy did I get a lot a grief for that as a youngster. Amongst other things?

For me there was, and especially is now, a capacity to observe free of the image. Oohhh, the utter beauty in so doing. People have always thought I to be rather strange to look at the same tree for such a long period of time. Or be so lost in a sunset as to not socilaize, which to others seemed like an odd and uncomfortable silence...What they did not see was that it was in the absence of time that caught the attention of an unconditioned eye?.

This for over almost two years now has tremendously deepened. It’s all very interesting to observe it all now as well. I sometimes get lost in the beauty of sound, seeing, smelling, and BE-ing, to such a extent that some may see it as odd, disconnected, “not all here”, oh but on the contrary, that is not the case one bit. Absolutely wonderful indeed! 

To me life is spectacular, and this joy derived as THE HAPPENING is significant in, and of itself. ??

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Faceless

[Saumaya]

On 10/08/2018 at 0:47 PM, tsuki said:

@Saumaya @Faceless This is the nature of infinite creativity.
It produces knowledge 'out of nowhere' and then, as you write it, it understands the conditioned parts of it.
In seeing of its own conditioning by inspecting its own writing, it becomes more aware of the conditioning.
That is why creativity deepens as you write.

In a sense - it becomes its own fuel. This is how infinite creativity works.
It is a positive feedback loop. This is the nature of boudlessness.
See my signature.

That's the writing process in enlightenment work. I don't think it's the same thing as what I am talking about here. It's more like as new ideas come to you, and they are fully expressed, they become fully understood and integrated into your working knowledge. I am surprised just because of this reason, how teachers are able to teach the same things over and over for years. They must really love teaching and the subject.

[Faceless]

Fragmentation 

 

 

Control implies division, the controller and the thing to be controlled; this division, as all division, brings about conflict and distortion in action and behavior in relationship. 

 

This fragmentation is the work of thought, one fragment trying to control the other parts — call this one fragment, the controller, which tries to control “apparent parts” of thought. 

This division is artificial and the mischief maker.

 

The controller is the controlled. 

 

Fragmentation is the effect of seeing oneself as ultimately separate from that which is thought, felt, perceived, and so on. 

 

Or for the controller, “the i”, wants to control fear, but the controller is also a fragment of fear. 

Also the controller wants to control desire, but the controller is just another fragment of desire trying to control an opposing fragment of desire. 

 

Thought in its very nature is fragmentary and this causes confusion and sorrow, which effects the psychological field (psyche), and is reflected out into the world, just as @tsukihas shared above. 

 

@Charlotte, use your understanding that we have gone into about fear.

Are you separate from fear?

“The i” that sets out to control fear...a fragment that sets out to to control a fragment, and so on.

I purposely waited to explain this because I figured it would be better to get familiar with the example we have gone into about fear over the last few months. ??

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

59 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

I am surprised just because of this reason, how teachers are able to teach the same things over and over for years. They must really love teaching and the subject.

For me writing does seem to add an increased depth in ‘connecting the dots’ of the “apparent” seperate and distinct movements of thought, where actually they are really one unitary movement. 

So there is an added-increased holistic understanding of the whole of thought.   

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Faceless