Clarification on Consciousness

[Chrissy j]

Some people say reality is real and not real at the same time. Is that the case? Or maybe that’s how it seems at a certain level of consciousness? Or is it ONLY nothing and infinity or whatever? And also is consciousness just lucidity as in you feel like reality is more lucid(unlike a dream where you feel out of it)?Or is it just awareness of your mental concepts and seeing through those into the emptiness or infinity or whatever facet? That’s what it seems like the most to me from my experience. Self inquiry got me feeling insane.  Or is it your level of growth? People say raise you consciousness through personal development. That doesn’t make sense to me. Raising your consciousness(enlightenment work) seems to be a different facet of human development than personal development work though they can both effect each other. Raising your consciousness is about seeing Truth (or maybe lucidity?) while personal development is working on your behaviors, life, etc. Can I get a clear answer on all these please? What is the case, or are these all ways of defining consciousness?

[Leo Gura]

Real vs unreal is a duality.

Nonduality = all distinctions collapse into a unity. At this ultimate, Absolute level of consciousness, there is literally no difference between anything. There is not even a difference between real and unreal.

Practically, you should make a distinction in your mind between level of consciousness vs level of development.

Enlightenment work is about raising your level of consciousness.

Personal development is about raising your level of development and changing your life around.

Both are very important.

[Chrissy j]

@Leo GuraWhat about lucidity though? Isn’t it you just like you feel more there?(unlike a dream where you are unconscious). How is seeing through distinctions and lucidity connected?

[Leo Gura]

@Chrissy j

Yes, consciousness is basically the same as hyper-lucidity. You become so lucid you realize there is no difference between difference and sameness. You become conscious that the metaphysical distinctions underlying your entire sense of reality are all meaningless: self vs world, life vs death, real vs unreal, something vs nothing. All of these distinctions collapse and you are left in pure nonduality. Reality becomes indistinct. Your identity collapses to zero and expands to infinity simultaneously.

At this level of lucidity, life as you know it is over. You have awoken from "life". You realize that your entire "life" was just a dream. You have died and awoken to realize that death is impossible because you are God. You are suspended in an infinite eternal state of Nirvana. You have achieved actual immortality. You realize that your true identity is an infinity singularity, which includes inside it every living creature that has ever existed or will exist. You are so lucid that you have 100% omniscient understanding of all of reality. You realize that you have created yourself using infinite intelligence and that nothing exists but yourself.

This degree of consciousness cannot be imagined or believed. It is extremely radical. It defies all scientific or rational explanation.

[Archen]

@Leo Gura  Hey Leo, this state you describe as enlightenment is similar to what I believe it to be as well. However, I am quite young relative to many of the users on here and I am a novice with meditation and I have never done any psychedelic so I do not feel as if I have experienced it yet. Deep down I tell myself we are all one, yet when I look in the mirror I still see "me" as a separate entity from the rest of reality. Excuse my arrogance but would you read my post and tell me if my perception of enlightenment is accurate and if not, in what places am I mistaken?

[Chrissy j]

@Leo GuraA little side question:How important is study when it comes to personal development and enlightenment? Say if you became hella enlightened right now(like for example Eckhart Tolle) how important would it be to do personal development? I feel like you would grow hugely from the enlightenment. And then the need for books wouldn’t really be a thing? Is studying personal development literature important?(say standard self help like tony Robbins, or maybe some sort of stage green or yellow self help?) or would you not need that since you are beyond all that? You have outgrown it all after you integrated the enlightenment? Maybe you have gone up to turqoise within a couple years? What is the importance of literature on personal development when you have a radical enlightenment? I’m just trying to get a big picture here.

edit: Does it vary from person to person on who needs study or should everyone study?

Edited August 9, 2018 by Chrissy j

[Leo Gura]

@Archen You obviously haven't awoken yet. You have an intellectual understanding (which is a good start) but now you need to actually awaken.

Kriya yoga & psychedelics will get you there much faster.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Chrissy j said:

@Leo GuraA little side question:How important is study when it comes to personal development and enlightenment? Say if you became hella enlightened right now(like for example Eckhart Tolle) how important would it be to do personal development? I feel like you would grow hugely from the enlightenment. And then the need for books wouldn’t really be a thing? Is studying personal development literature important?(say standard self help like tony Robbins, or maybe some sort of stage green or yellow self help?) or would you not need that since you are beyond all that? You have outgrown it all after you integrated the enlightenment? Maybe you have gone up to turqoise within a couple years? What is the importance of literature on personal development when you have a radical enlightenment? I’m just trying to get a big picture here.

It would still be important. Of course having a massive enlightenment will itself produce a huge shift in your development. But that will not be enough by itself. There will still be many things which you are unconscious of and many ways to improve your life. Your bad habits and shadow side will still largely remain unaddressed. You will still lack important skills and knowledge for succeeding in the world.

Enlightenment will not automatically put you at Turquoise. Turquoise requires additional work. Being a good human being also requires additional work. Fully embodying your enlightenment requires additional work. Becoming a good teacher requires additional work. Etc.

And having one complete massive life-shattering enlightened is extremely rare. Chances are high you will fall back asleep after your first glimpse, or have some kind of ego-backlash.

[Chrissy j]

@Leo GuraHow does absolute infinity fit into all this? If all duality collapses you could say it’s nothing as a facet of reality. But then there is absolute infinity. Is absolute infinity saying everything is happening? Or is it saying that everything is happening and it’s all nothing is just the nothingness facet with absolute infinity being it’s own facet? Or is it saying all the something and all the nothing are happening? Or is it beyond all that? And is god absolute infinity? Or nothingness? Or is god just reality and these are all facets of god?

Edited August 9, 2018 by Chrissy j

[Leo Gura]

@Chrissy j Nothing and Everything are in fact identical. Nothing IS Absolute Infinity.

Infinity is a self-negating self-negation.

Reality is a happening which never actually happened.

Ta-da!

God is that.

Don't try to figure this out using the mind. It will not work. It is profoundly paradoxically. The mind cannot handle it.

Psychedelics and/or yoga is the way to go about realizing this.

[Forestluv]

@Chrissy j I'm in the process of awakening. Based on how I resonate with awakened speakers, I'd say I've turned a corner and am at an immature stage of awakening. I'm at a stage where there is a sense of an "I am" that is free from, and aware of, all aspects of "the person". All feelings, thoughts, memories, the life story, opinions, beliefs, concepts etc. It is aware of all the conditioning my person has undergone. It is attached to none of it. This "I am" is totally neutral / empty and does not identify with "the person". It is no  thing. However, the person keeps returning with various levels of identification. Sometimes there is nearly complete identification with the person, sometimes there is virtually no identification - and also everything in-between.  I realized millions of years of evolution and a lifetime of non-stop social conditioning has created this person and it seems like it will take some time to recondition into my true nature. 

Recently, this "I am" has become aware of itself leading to an energetic shift. The seeking energy has dissolved. A new energy wanting to be the "I am" consciousness is emerging. There is a sense there the person can no longer return to how it was. A sense this "I am" will continue this process.

I have found it's MUCH easier to de-identify with the person when the person is relaxed. Meditation, traditional yoga, kriya yoga etc. can help settle down the person and allow space. As well, psychology and personal development can help relax the person. Learning about why my person experiences anxiety, fear, jealousy etc. Observing how my character grasps at pleasure and avoids being uncomfortable. Learning how to sit and be still when my person is uncomfortable and wants to escape. All this promotes a more balanced, relaxed person, which allows for deeper revelations to appear.

[Leo Gura]

@Ero I'm not sure what you are asking. I wasn't able to follow your complex wording.

[Arkandeus]

whatever you call it is always there as it is

to me what most people mean by real or unreal, is the degree to which they open their hearts to whats going on

for most people a movie death doesn't feel entirely real so our hearts are not as much open as a real death

 

but if we pay attention to our hearts both a movie death or a real life death are just as real and unreal as each other

 

 

[Arkandeus]

36 minutes ago, Ero said:

@Arkandeus So I'm still dualistic about death of a paradigm (which I called symbolic, so I unconsciously mean it as unreal) and the death of an organism. Is that the case? That would make total sense. 

 

quite indeed, as long as you believe consciousness is limited to a body it becomes harder to recognize life in its different forms

how many people know the avengers, captain america, iron man and so on? they know them, they dream about them, they get inspired by them

or even the characters of their daily show

these forms of consciousness, are different, they do not posses an inherrent physical body, they get channeled so to speak by actors, by writers, they borrow the body, they borrow the special effects, in the end there's no pointing out were it begins or ends, who or what is superman in "reality"? we don't know yet we all know superman

in the same way I don't really know who I am or whats going on yet I'm here and I sort of know myself, to me I'm just as unreal or real

 

we tend to out put boundaries "well it's imagined by someone, its played out, its not actually real"

 

its funny, consciousness imagining consciousness, sounds familiar 

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Ero said:

Question: Wouldn't that propose a finality to the enlightenment "path"?

Yes and no.

You can have multiple enlightenments, each one going deeper.

It's a complex topic. There many facets of reality to become conscious of even though all of those facets ultimately unite into one. It's like you are groping an elephant in a dark room. You're groping it piece by piece. Then sometimes the lights turn on in the whole room for 1 second and you glimpse the entire thing. But it's still worthwhile to go back and grope the tail or the ear individually because there's a lot of nuance in each piece which you didn't get during that 1 second glimpse.

And after lots of doing that, maybe at some point you will get to a stage where you can clearly see the whole elephant in its full glory.