How To Accept Death?

[Guest]

On 3/21/2016 at 7:15 PM, FocusOnTruth said:

@Nomad Yes, but beliefs are necessary to orient oneself toward enlightenment and doing the work necessary to transcend belief. The beliefs themselves are falsehoods and illusions, but for the sake of communication and primary understanding they are a necessary preliminary ingredient when pursuing enlightenment. 

 So what you're actually saying (without being aware of it) is that you can use your intellect to create a belief system strong enough to repress your mind so that thoughts and feelings no longer appear in your direct awareness, but now they appear "out there" in the "unconscious ones".

Then you can be free of "them" who have dust in their eyes and are acting from egoic motivations.

Feels good to have gotten rid of your feelings.  

That's what you mean by "spiritual enlightenment"

[nbolt]

7 minutes ago, Nomad said:

 So what you're actually saying (without being aware of it) is that you can use your intellect to create a belief system strong enough to repress your mind so that thoughts and feelings no longer appear in your direct awareness, but now they appear "out there" in the "unconscious ones".

Then you can be free of "them" who have dust in their eyes and are acting from egoic motivations.

Feels good to have gotten rid of your feelings.  

That's what you mean by "spiritual enlightenment"

This is not about repressing anything, it's about acceptance. Accepting the actual reality in front of you instead of getting lost in the stories your mind generates.

[Steven]

I've dealt with this when I was five :)

 

 

[Guest]

@Neill Bolton All you got are stories.  Its whether you take them seriously or not.  Thats the question.  You will always have a conceptual mind, there is no enlightenment or freedom from conceptual mind.

There is only your reaction towards it

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nomad said:

 So what you're actually saying (without being aware of it) is that you can use your intellect to create a belief system strong enough to repress your mind so that thoughts and feelings no longer appear in your direct awareness, but now they appear "out there" in the "unconscious ones".

Then you can be free of "them" who have dust in their eyes and are acting from egoic motivations.

Feels good to have gotten rid of your feelings.  

That's what you mean by "spiritual enlightenment"

No, that's not what I'm saying,and quite honestly I have no clue if this enlightenment is bullshit or not. However, based on anecdote, it seems convincing enough to take the leap of faith. From what I understand, enlightenment is not a belief, the belief is only necessary to orient oneself to do the enlightenment work. Also, it isn't about repressing anything, merely becoming more aware. Enlightenment is the process of realizing that the self does not exist and of breaking free of the perception that there is a boundary between the internal and external world. I am no more aware of this than you are. I'm just adopting the belief to stimulate me to become aware.

[Guest]

@FocusOnTruth There is a boundary.  

There is only your interpretation of what is going on.

You can have a spiritual experience for sure.  It doesn't last. It's just a momentary thing that allows you to update your current model

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Neill Bolton said:

This is not about repressing anything, it's about acceptance. Accepting the actual reality in front of you instead of getting lost in the stories your mind generates.

Sorry, this just sounds so contrived. Like you have absolutely no experience of doing this work or having a spiritual moment.  For you spiritual work is not a reality.  Its a belief system,  its sooooooo obvious in the way you use language.

[nbolt]

that ego you're defending doing ok? 

[Guest]

@Neill Bolton Sometimes defending the ego is the right thing to do.

Ken Wilber talks about the problem of spiritual teachers hitting everything as "egoic" resistance.

Where the actually it could be the persons discriminative wisdom protecting them from taking in garbage uncritically.

The problem with spirituality is that every form of resistance has to be ego.  Which is not actually the case 100% of the time

If youre a hammer, then everything looks like a nail yeah?

 

[nbolt]

5 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Where the actually it could be the persons discriminative wisdom protecting them from taking in garbage uncritically.

 

and what specifically is this garbage you are supposedly preventing yourself from taking in?

[Guest]

@Neill Bolton Your garbage about enlightenment.  It doesnt exist.  Its a belief system.  Have you not been following the threads?   

[Guest]

@Neill Bolton Sorry.  and the garbage you regurgitate from the books, that are not your own thoughts or experience. The ones that are sounding contrived

[Guest]

@FocusOnTruth What are you becoming more aware of?

Your own "ego"?

You think that putting that in a little box while you clear some space to experience "enlightenment" is becoming aware?

Awareness is knowing there is no such thing as enlightenment, as a transient state yes, clearing space for your mind to assimilate new knowledge yes.

But the thought that enlightenment is bullshit is derived from accessing that experience enough times to know non conceptual awareness is a tool.

Dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

These experiences are supposed to inform your self concept, not get rid of it.

[nbolt]

I said be specific. what do you think I think enlightenment is and what do you think I'm regurgitating from what books in place of actual experience? who's even to say books aren't a legit experience in of themselves, that's how we learn and grow in the first place. You learn something from someone else, identify with it, and decide you want to start exploring those concepts and putting the lessons you come up with into practice in your personal life.

There are so many assumptions happening here. what is it you're trying to prevent exactly? nobody's getting on your case about anything, in fact this thread is the opposite.
 

Quote

Awareness is knowing there is no such thing as enlightenment.

 

Quote

All you got are stories.  Its whether you take them seriously or not.  Thats the question.  You will always have a conceptual mind, there is no enlightenment or freedom from conceptual mind.

Many spiritual leaders as well as people in this very thread would agree with these above statements, so I'm really not sure what you're trying to protect or argue for here.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Neill Bolton

[Guest]

@Neill Bolton Books are books.  They were that persons experiece at the time.  Mahayana Buddhism was founded on one persons experience and who felt the need to let everybody else know that this was the ultimate truth for mankind.

Thats cult religion.

Religions dont have to be some kind of belief system at all.  Religion is as simple as saying non dualism is THE truth.  Which it isnt.

The belief in non dual enlightenment as some kind of ultimate truth.  Once you tell somebody that your truth is the only truth they need then youre in big trouble.

Is it possible that you have bought hook line and sinker into somebody elses truth?

Loads of people have done it since.  But they are still not expressing their own truth, they are expressing the a truth somebody convinced a whole lineage of people that this is the only thing thats real.

 

[nbolt]

[Falk]

Meditate to remind yourself what life is.

The fear of death will vanish the moment you see what life is.

Love remains.

[Khin]

@TimStr This is one of Buddha's teachings or techniques. I also used it myself and very effective.

Why do you afraid of death? Because you love yourself.

So ask yourself "Why do I love myself?"

Then look at your body. Imagine all that intestines, blood, saliva, other organs and fluids. Try to find something that is very attractive or beautiful.

I know that in Biology science, we'd be learning how cool our body parts are but will you keep any body parts in a beautiful chest because they are so cool? Will you hold any body's heart in your hands and kiss them because it is the best organ for animals? Our body is disgusting after all.

When you think your body is disgusting and useless, you will not love it anymore and will reduce the fear of death.