Am I going crazy or are people going crazy?

[Scholar]

Today I have tried to have some conversations with people on discord (it's a chat-application) on multiple servers, and I am not sure whether I am just incompatible with people or whether people are just being hyper-emotional. 

I was on multiple philosophy servers and tried to make some Atheists question materialism, I remained calm and non-judgemental. I asked questions about the nature of substance, I tried to ask what they mean when they talk about material, particles etc. and I even went so far to explain to them quantum mechanics, which they immediately dismissed because I am not a physicist myself.  They refused to investigate and learn about physics when I told them that I did not think it was controversial to assume that the model of particles, atoms etc. are merely models that are not supposed to resemble reality but instead are a tool to predict it.

I was ridiculed, I was called crazy, reductionist, low-iq. They went completely nuts on me. The only person on that server I was capable of having a conversation with was a Christian who claimed he took multiple doses of 5-MeO-DMT. He was the only person who was even remotely open minded enough to even talk to, and note that I really tried to explain these things from the perspective of a materialist, I tried to show them how materialism didn't hold up even from a rational, scientific view-point.

Didn't work.

 

Then I decided to strike up conversation with vegans, on a vegan server, because I am a vegan myself. I remained polite and open minded, when people started to call certain individuals Nazi's and Misogynist's, I politely disagreed and inquired for them to tell me why they think that was the case. They went completely crazy, they were offended by the mere fact that I could even consider that these people were not what they claimed they were. It was not possible for me, no matter how hard I tried to appease them and be nice, to have a normal open minded conversation with them. I wanted them to convince me of their position, and they still took offense in the mere fact that I was not able to adopt it.

 

All I am trying to do is find a place where I can have normal conversations with people about philosophy without emotions and dogma. I just cannot find it, and I seriously am questioning whether I have some blind-spot where I just don't see my irrationality that seemingly makes everyone think I am a threat to them. I even tried approaches where I merely asked questions, without including any of my own ideology, and people think I am trolling and being intentionally annoying as if I had nothing better to do.

 

It just frustrates me, the people who are supposed to show compassion show no mercy to people who are of other opinion or ignorant. And the people who are supposed to be rational seem to actively avoid rationalism in the favor of staying in their paradigm.

 

Does anyone here know how to deal with this? Do I have to give up on conversation and debate and just philosophize by myself? I really don't want to do that because I know I have blind spots in my belief-systems that I might not see if someone else doesn't point them out to me. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Scholar

[Hansu]

I used to do the same on my local 4chan and get angry for the same reason. But then i looked inside myself and understood that my need to change peoples opinions were my own ego jacking off and trying to become "cool wise guy who everyone looks up for wisdom"

Today, i still do discuss these things on 4chan but mostly just for my own amusement to see how absurd self-contracting shit people can let out of their minds. And whenever there is soneone who get interested, i shift my mind to explaining mode, but still wont get angry if they dont understand or accept my opinions. Fuck their problems, I wont make them mine ?

 

[Scholar]

19 minutes ago, Hansu said:

I used to do the same on my local 4chan and get angry for the same reason. But then i looked inside myself and understood that my need to change peoples opinions were my own ego jacking off and trying to become "cool wise guy who everyone looks up for wisdom"

Today, i still do discuss these things on 4chan but mostly just for my own amusement to see how absurd self-contracting shit people can let out of their minds. And whenever there is soneone who get interested, i shift my mind to explaining mode, but still wont get angry if they dont understand or accept my opinions. Fuck their problems, I wont make them mine ?

 

Yeah I've been thinking the same about myself, the need to show off knowledge is definitely egoic. Though it still would be nice if there was a place where reasonable people can have reasonable discussion without judging others. I still don't know whether I am possibly just stupid by assuming all the things I do assume, but they make sense to me. If I am stupid they will make sense to me even if they are ridiculous ideas, and I can't learn anything if everyone just dismisses my ideas and more importantly my questions immediately. Maybe there is something I am missing, but I just don't understand why everyone has to get so upset by me not understanding things, if I indeed am the one who is misguided.

The thing is, how likely is it that everyone disagrees with me while I am right, especially when I go into specific philosophy places where people seem to train themselves to be rational. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Scholar

[Hansu]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Yeah I've been thinking the same about myself, the need to show off knowledge is definitely egoic. Though it still would be nice if there was a place where reasonable people can have reasonable discussion without judging others. I still don't know whether I am possibly just stupid by assuming all the things I do assume, but they make sense to me. If I am stupid they will make sense to me even if they are ridiculous ideas, and I can't learn anything if everyone just dismisses my ideas and more importantly my questions immediately. Maybe there is something I am missing, but I just don't understand why everyone has to get so upset by me not understanding things, if I indeed am the one who is misguided.

The thing is, how likely is it that everyone disagrees with me while I am right, especially when I go into specific philosophy places where people seem to train themselves to be rational. 

Lol, i have been wondering whether im stupid or intelligent all my life, and i have found plenty of answers that indicate to both directions but none are what i seek. I have dropped the question completely.

Assumptions are fine as long as you keep questioning them. Keep questioning them until you either have answer or you drop the question. You cant rely on other people giving you answers to your questions, you have to seek them yourself.

Like if there is a screaming child in grocery store and you make an assumption that the child is horrible person, and immediatly you get the feeling that "fuck, i shouldnt assume things like that"

Just let yourself assume without critizising your assumption, and start bombarding yourself with questions related to why you are assuming, and whether the assumption is true or false. In the end, you either drop it or you poop out a fact. You dont need other people to get that fact

I have found that being my own teacher has been the greatest discovery of my life

 

[Sunchild]

On 8/5/2018 at 4:23 PM, Scholar said:

 All I am trying to do is find a place where I can have normal conversations with people about philosophy without emotions and dogma. I just cannot find it, and I seriously am questioning whether I have some blind-spot where I just don't see my irrationality that seemingly makes everyone think I am a threat to them. I even tried approaches where I merely asked questions, without including any of my own ideology, and people think I am trolling and being intentionally annoying as if I had nothing better to do.

It may not be you.  It is quite likely in these communities (having hung out in one which was pretty materialistic and atheistic) have endured a lot of JAQing off concern trolls (said forum had a regular parade of such coming and going), and when you sound just like one they will jump your behind, even if you are sincere.  We also do have, as you intimated, the cemented mindsets in question from the regulars that you dealt with there.  I say let them find out for themselves.

[hinawashi]

The reason I don't join any servers or any multi-channels is because I knew this from the very beginning that there's no chemistry between me and them. It's not because anyone is crazy, but rather incompatible as you said. Nobody is crazy because you follow your logic perfectly and they're following their logic perfectly. I had the same question before but I thought about it for quite a while and I realized that to think yourself or anybody else is crazy is only the ego talking, because the ego likes to separate itself from others by putting labels like "crazy" on either side. In reality these labels don't exist, therefore nobody can be crazy.

It's like mixing oil and water. They don't mix but how can you say oil is bad or water is bad? Nither is good or bad. They just exist. People just exist, nobody is crazy, that's all.

[MarkusSweden]

@Scholar Aren't we just as close-minded here? 

Remember that character who call himself "egoless" that told us that he leaved non-duality for christianity? 

Lol, we absolutely slaughtered him, we showed him no understanding what so ever.

I also started a thread, where I elaborate on spiritual narratives, and why the non-dual, non-materialistic narrative is so dominant here. 

I was labeled crazy for even elaborate on materialism and the existence of subjects aka selves. 

Isn't if funny? 

  

Edited August 7, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Leo Gura]

On 8/5/2018 at 1:23 PM, Scholar said:

I have tried to have some conversations with people on discord

That's your porblem right there.

Discussing the nature of existence with teenage gamers in an online chatroom, lol. What could go wrong?

You're still not getting it. The ego does not care about truth. Nor do atheists. You may as well be preaching scripture or teaching calculus to a donkey.

At least the donkey won't resort to smartassery.

[lmfao]

@Scholar I find discussing self actualization and enlightenment to mostly be pointless at this point. If you're gonna get a materlisit to stop clinging to their beliefs, you're going to have to take it to metaphysics and show that metaphysics is groundless and arbitrary. And when you get to metaphysics people are super defensive, metaphysics create an entire person's world view man. An ego will always protect its world view. 

AND LEO'S COMPLETELY RIGHT YOU'RE TALKING TO RANDOM ASS 15 YEAR OLD GAMERS ABOUT METAPHYSICS LMAO. I've talked to people on discord before, good luck meeting anyone open minded. Surely you can find some amusement in all of this, I know I do. I've tried doing the same sort of thing as you did. 

In order for people to "see truth" they have to experience it themselves and come to it themselves. 

Get out of your head and meditate is what I say. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by lmfao

[pluto]

Thus why this remains one of my favorite quotes of all time.

And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.

Its time to reside and surround yourself in places/people of your own frequency or you will always clash with others on a lower frequency. I used to be a hard gamer, i mastered every game and enjoyed excessively always being one of the best players at whatever i played, i even won thousands of dollars in tournaments which only fed my negative ego more and more but i was eventually suffering inside because i knew i knew better than this and within there was so much greater potential to be used in the world and it wasn't my divine truth because i was continuing to play the same loops in life and not just gaming but many other aspects of modern day life i was staying attached too.

Eventually every second conversation was an argument until i realized they simply do not see what i see and as long as i do things that no longer serve me and that i have evolved from i am deliberately putting myself in a state of suffering and static instead of dynamic and expansive.

Be wise, don't be like me

Edited August 8, 2018 by pluto

[Leo Gura]

Quote

"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

-- Jesus