Self Analysis implies abstraction, which nourishes division-duality

[tsuki]

3 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@robdl There is no normal language about it.
? is the I.
?? is the observer of the I.
??? is the observer of the observer of the I.
???? is the observer of the observer of the observer of the I.
...

I don't think that it is useful to write it out in normal language.
@Faceless, I am trying to point something out to you, so perhaps it would be wiser if you tried to understand what I mean as these symbols?

@Faceless can we agree on this? Do you understand it?

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

? is the I.
?? is the observer of the I.

If ? is (the i) which implies (fear-time) and so on, then the absense of ? implies @tsuki‘s  ??

there is only actual observation when time-fear and so on are not in movement. 

The observer-time must cease for there to be unconditioned observation that is whole.

as long as the observer is in the picture it will fragment, divide, distort, corrupt the observation. 

What do you guys think?

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

If ? is the i which implies fear-time and so on, then the absense of ? implies your ??

there is only actual observation when time-fear and so on are not in movement. 

The observer-time must cease for there to be unconditioned observation that is whole.

@Faceless Okay, so if absence of ? implies ??, then how does ?? have anything to say about ??
When there is ??, there is no ?. Is that correct?

[Faceless]

2 minutes ago, tsuki said:

When there is ??, there is no ?. Is that correct?

Yes, when there is unconditioned awareness (choiceless awareness) there is no i (fear-time) and all its implications. 

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Yes, when there is unconditioned awareness (choiceless awareness) there is no i (fear-time) and all its implications. 

@Faceless Ok. Let's agree. When there is ??, there is no ?. When there is ?, there is no ??.
? and ?? are mutually exclusive. It is either one, or the other.
So far, all of this ^^^^ is saying exactly the same thing.

The question is: you, as ?? write on the forum on how ? works.
How do you, as ?? know anything about ?, when there is no ? in you?

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Faceless Ok. Let's agree. When there is ??, there is no ?. When there is ?, there is no ??.
? and ?? are mutually exclusive. It is either one, or the other.
So far, all of this ^^^^ is saying exactly the same thing.

The question is: you, as ?? write on the forum on how ? works.
How do you, as ?? know anything about ?, when there is no ? in you?

Oh Lolol. Is that what is is all about. Nice 

to see the whole of ?, there has to be the ending of this?(Fear-time) . When I say (the i) or (self) I mean ultimately (fear-psychological becoming). When we stay with what is there is communion with the fact which implies the absense of choice(contradiction, confusion, conflict). (TIME) 

 

What i share on the forum is to stay with ?fear-time, and understand it. There can only be complete action that ends ? when there is a holistic perception-insight into the whole movement of psychological time-thought self(time). 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

There can only be whole insight when we commune with what is the case. 

To see (unconditioned observation) the consequences of continuing in the pattern of time one negates the whole compulsion to move in that pattern all together. 

To see the danger and not go near it. A holistic action born of infinite intelligence. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Only intelligence which is holistic sees the limitation of thought-self-time. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

If we can meet here perhaps I can go onto what I mean by headlessness(the sacred). Until then it will be futile indeed. It’s difficult indeed to communicate this isn’t it?

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[tsuki]

@Faceless You haven't answered my question. Are you saying that there is no ???

How is it that ? can reflect on itself?

What is the purpose of self reflection if the point is to stay with ??

You are being led by the nose by your sacred creativity. Find an answer that does not contradict me and does not invalidate what you do here on the forum. The answer is not to say that you are wrong but that you have missed something and can improve your teachings.

 @robdl can you understand what I'm getting at?

[Faceless]

Ultimately I am interested in sharing all the subtle movements of “seemingly seperate-divided” movements of thought-self. Pointing at the importance of being able to identify  these incomplete reactions-responses, and also pointing at the importance of (not contributing), to that contradictory movement of positive-negative movement of fear-desire-volition. 

To show that all movement of time-self is, and will inevitably be, incomplete-finite-limited, and only perpetuate its own movement of disorder-incomplete action.

Incomplete action, otherwise known as (action) will always move in accordance to time-fear-fragmentation, being a mechanical movement of division-contradiction itself. Any action influenced by contradiction will be conflicting and cause disorder in our daily life, especially relationship with yourself, others, and the environment. 

Whole action otherwise known as non-action is to cease to contribute to this movement of  contradiction. Therefore (fear-time), being one and he same movement of desire seeking pleasure, gratification, validation, and so on, is not further nourishing the pattern of incomplete action.

This sharing stresses the importance in non-action or holistic action born of intelligence. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

What is the purpose of self reflection if the point is to stay with ??

 

This is how I know we are not quite meeting yet. This is difficult for many it seems. The motive-volition to move positively-negatively. 

All movement in this direction or any direction (goal-means to and end) is a movement of thought-self. Dead end. 

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

You are being led by the nose by your sacred creativity. Find an answer that does not contradict me and does not invalidate what you do here on the forum. The answer is not to say that you are wrong but that you have missed something and can improve your teachings.

 

There will be a passive attention to this. ⬆️

 

Thank you tsuki for the discussion. Maybe we will meet one another soon enough??

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[tsuki]

30 minutes ago, Faceless said:

This is how I know we are not quite meeting yet. This is difficult for many it seems. The motive-volition to move positively-negatively. 

All movement in this direction or any direction (goal-means to and end) is a movement of thought-self. Dead end. 

@Faceless When you are talking to a goal-seeking mind, saying that there is no goal to be sought will not attract it.
You have to construct a trap in which the mind will have to observe itself.

This is what I am doing with your sacred creativity. 
Would it convince you to actually listen to me if my advice would stop it?
That the creativity would be dead and mechanical like thought? I think not. 

Self-inquire into the nature of freedom, friend.
And thank you for our conversation.

Edited August 8, 2018 by tsuki

[Faceless]

@tsuki

That is what I share buddy, the significance of Freedom. Freedom to observe the fact without the compulsion to escape. The importance of freedom without the influence of authority, being spiritual, psychological, and the authority of personal experience-knowledge accumulated which is clinged onto. A movement of fear seeking security in its own movement of desire-psychological becoming. 

Look forward to continuing later, tsuki

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[Sashaj]

7 hours ago, tsuki said:

@robdl There is no normal language about it.
? is the I.
?? is the observer of the I.
??? is the observer of the observer of the I.
???? is the observer of the observer of the observer of the I.
...

I don't think that it is useful to write it out in normal language.
@Faceless, I am trying to point something out to you, so perhaps it would be wiser if you tried to understand what I mean as these symbols?

Ok but what is the sound of one self referential arrow emoji clapping?

 

[tsuki]

5 hours ago, Sashaj said:

Ok but what is the sound of one self referential arrow emoji clapping?

@Sashaj That's what I'm explaining.
The answer is not: it's insane, you're chasing your tail, don't waste our time with your stupid paradoxes.

Edited August 9, 2018 by tsuki

[tsuki]

10 hours ago, Faceless said:

@tsuki

That is what I share buddy, the significance of Freedom. Freedom to observe the fact without the compulsion to escape. The importance of freedom without the influence of authority, being spiritual, psychological, and the authority of personal experience-knowledge accumulated which is clinged onto. A movement of fear seeking security in its own movement of desire-psychological becoming. 

Look forward to continuing later, tsuki

@Faceless What you're doing here is writing about bondage of thought from the point of view of freedom (sacred creativity).
It's important! People will 'benefit' from it, and you will remain timeless.

What I am suggesting you do instead is to write about freedom from the point of view of freedom.
And don't you dare to assume it's impossible. People bound by thought will not understand you.
You are not writing it for them, but for yourself to inquire into the nature of freedom.
This will not make you bound by time again. It will make you see the nature of freedom/sacred creativity.
Once you see the nature of it, it will explode once more.

Edited August 9, 2018 by tsuki

[Sashaj]

@tsuki I believe you and was only joking however I haven’t followed the entire thing. It’s over my head

[tsuki]

24 minutes ago, Sashaj said:

@tsuki I believe you and was only joking however I haven’t followed the entire thing. It’s over my head

@Sashaj Keep working on your head to take it off like what @Faceless suggests.
The trick is that the headless rider can also take his lack of head off .