Self Analysis implies abstraction, which nourishes division-duality

[Nahm]

@tsuki Love.

[Saumaya]

5 hours ago, tsuki said:

@Faceless What is the origin of fear of fear?

Self survival

[Faceless]

19 minutes ago, Saumaya said:

Self survival

Time

i wanted to see what others would say. I would say self survival is a form of time indeed. 

[tsuki]

@Faceless

First, there is nothing.

Then, there is a duality of opposites. 
The direction between positive and negative is what defines movement.
This direction is the possibility of decision between opposites. Either one, or the other.
Repulsive movement is fear. Attractive movement is love.
Duality is what constitutes knowledge/belief.

Then, we notice the duality of the '+' and '-'.
That love and fear are the same direction seen from two points of view.
That love attracts and fear repulses, but the direction is the same.
That the movement is not a choice. That knowledge predetermines outcome.
In seeing the connection of the opposites, we recognize their union.
Thought is the recognition of division and hierarchy.
Insight is the recognition of oneness by noticing the movement.

Is there any difference between the two above pictures?
Can we locate the movement that the second picture implies?
Is there a difference between duality and unity?
Is there a difference between (+) and (-)?

Fear of fear is the lack of recognition of self-reference.
Without it, knowledge of knowledge is born and duality is a (-) and non-duality is a (+).
Then, there is a movement of insight that is taking place, which is a fear of fear.
It is nothing else than fear itself.

Is it clear, or are we constructing knowledge of knowledge of knowledge?

Edited August 8, 2018 by tsuki

[tsuki]

6 hours ago, Saumaya said:

Self survival

@Saumaya What is the meaning of self if there was no self to begin with?
What is the difference between pre-enlightenment and post-enlightenment?

Edited August 8, 2018 by tsuki

[Nahm]

Seems like the difference here is the realization of no self (nullification of fear) , and the realization of Self (actuality of Love, absence of fear / knowing fear is just Love).

[tsuki]

@Nahm Can't see the difference from my point of view.
First, there was running away from the things we fear.
Then, there is chasing the things we love.

Running away is like chasing with respect to movement.
Is there a polarity to be seen?
Can we really choose the things we love?
Is there any basis for such a choice?

Edited August 8, 2018 by tsuki

[Nahm]

One could be thoughtless (no more fear), without realizing Being (fear/thought was just Love/Self). 

Realization of actuality of fear is then fearlessness, this is a psychological realization, still at the ‘thought level’.

Being, is the realization of the actuality of illusion and Self. 

[Nahm]

@Feel Good ??

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

One could be thoughtless (no more fear), without realizing Being (fear/thought was just Love/Self). 

@Nahm Yes, before any polarities subside, there is a place of stillness.
If fear is love, then again: what is the difference between pre-enlightenment and post-enlightenment?
When fear is love: pre-enlightenment is post-enlightenment.

[Big Guru Balls]

Pre-enlightenment- Fear is the illusion/belief of being separate from the source.
Post enlightenment- Love is realizing one is not,and never was separate from the source.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Big Guru Balls

[tsuki]

@Big Guru Balls Still not seeing the difference.
One is not, and never has been separate from the source.
That is also true pre-enlightenment, from the post-enlightenment point of view.
What is the incentive to make a big deal out of it?
Why make spirituality out of it?

And I'm not monkeying words here, mind you.

[Big Guru Balls]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

One is not, and never has been separate from the source.
That is also true pre-enlightenment, from the post-enlightenment point of view.

Pre-enlightenment/realization, is this known?  Did you know for fact, pre-enlightenment/realization,or only have ideas/assumptions?

 

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

What is the incentive to make a big deal out of it?

The urge/desire to know for oneself what is true,not willing to rely on previous ideas or conclusions.
After realization,not such a big deal,loll.

 

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

Why make spirituality out of it?

Good question. Does truth claim to be spiritual,or those who seek it? Is it a 'spiritual awakening" or just realizing what was always there?
Is it a natural behavior for human beings to romanticize the unknown?
 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Big Guru Balls

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, Big Guru Balls said:

Pre-enlightenment/realization, is this known? Did you know for fact, pre-enlightenment/realization,or only have ideas/assumptions?

Like I said, I'm not monkeying words.

What I was asking about is what is the incentive to make any deal out of it post-enlightenment.

Edited August 8, 2018 by tsuki

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

Still not seeing the difference

Now that there is no separation, you can see, why You (Source) is doing this (Tsuki). 

 

[Big Guru Balls]

16 minutes ago, tsuki said:

What I was asking about is what is the incentive to make any deal out of it post-enlightenment

I suppose ,  if there's still any deal being made,then the conditioning/belief of being a separate self/identity has not been fully dissolved.

[Faceless]

@tsuki @Big Guru Balls @Nahm

Ooooh fun??

 nice drawings tsuki. I’m not sure I meet you on them though. Give me a few minutes to try and explain how I see it. 

[tsuki]

36 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Now that there is no separation, you can see, why You (Source) is doing this (Tsuki). 

@Nahm Wasn't it the opposite back then? That tsuki did this.
It just feels upside down. It's fun this way I suppose but so it was back then.
Does it switch for you sometimes?

29 minutes ago, Big Guru Balls said:

I suppose ,  if there's still any deal being made,then the conditioning/belief of being a separate self/identity has not been fully dissolved.

Wouldn't that make Buddha or Jesus half-baked prophets though?
Why would anybody wish for others to be enlightened?

[Faceless]

This is the way I see it from the standpoint of insight itself, which implies actual cessation of psychological(experience, knowledge, memory) as the i. 

 

 

 

 

                              Non-Fear

                                     I

                                   ?

                                     I

                                  Fear

 

 

 

Duality between (Fear) and (non-fear)=fear=?

 

 

?=thought=(knowledge-memory-experience)TIME  

 

?=self=(choice-the chooser) that chooses between the opposites. Duality-TIME. 

 

You the reader-observer will represent:(the whole action as (insight-truth). 

 

As you look at this moment of duality between the opposites up above, (You) are representing (the action of insight) that sees the whole of that movement of time-duality, which is one and the same movement of Truth-Love. 

 

—————————————————

 

From within the loop,(?),there is bondage of choice-time-(conditioned mind-self)........We do not see the whole of it, but instead are pursuing one side or the other of these opposites. And from that vantage point seems like the only available option. 

 

Because we are not at a far enough distance from that loop,(?), we are unable to see the whole of that loop. There must be freedom from that loop and all it implies for there to be this holistic insight of the loop. As long as fear determines action we remain in that reactive pattern of creating the opposite out of the its opposing opposite and choosing between those. Choice implies confusion, contradiction, and conflict, which breeds further fear......Example; we are unable to see that the world is round from down here on the ground. But far out in orbit it’s apparent that the world is spherical.⭕️. 

 

Same thing here. Being bound by the limited perspective (time-thought-self(chooser that chooses between), (dualistic perspective), (Time-fear), we cannot see the whole. So not seeing the truth of that fact holistically we continue to move within that same pattern of ? (fear-time). 

 

But from the outside looking in, or high above, FREEDOM NOT BOUND BY “LIMITED VANTAGE POINT”, we see the whole of choice-duality as being one unitary movement of time. And in that understanding-SEEING(perception-insight), there is whole action that ends that the perpetuation of that pattern?

 

Again when we observe, the mind being dualistic, creates the opposite out of its own opposite, and non-fear is then born of fear and vice versa. So with the fact of fear, duality-thought, creates an abstraction of non-fear and calls it love. But it is not love.....Love-insight-truth has no opposite. 

 

In this action of WHOLE INSIGHT-TRUTH-LOVE are one and the same movement of that which is timeless. Non-causal 

Because to create an opposite out of its opposite implies time-causation. If there is causation-time, freedom is not, and if freedom is not, insight, love, truth are not. 

 

Once out of this limited mechanical and fragmented perception, which demands the ending of fear-time, there can be whole observation from above that will find out that time and all its implications are all a function, or form, or process, if I can use those words, of TRUTH-NOTHINGNESS. 

TRUTH, (The whole) CONTAINS TIMELESSNESS-TIME. DUALITY OR DISTINCTION IS PART OF THOUGHT-SELF-MIND

 

Sorry if it’s confusing and nonsensical. Lol just woke up from long night crying toddler?

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

40 minutes ago, Big Guru Balls said:

I suppose ,  if there's still any deal being made,then the conditioning/belief of being a separate self/identity has not been fully dissolved.

Seems rather common if fear is not ended. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Faceless