The labels "Introvert"/"Extrovert" are ABSURD and DISRUPTIVE!

[MrDmitriiV]

In the common psychalogy and self-help world there's a big trend to overuse the labels "Introvert"/"Extrovert". 

When I got into self-help, I considered myself to be the label "Introvert", and like everyone else I used it as an excuse! "I can't do public speaking properly because I'm an introvert." "I don't love to be around people because I'm an introvert"

No, I couldn't do public speaking properly because a series of failures created a bad imprint/memory in my brain which made me fear it even worse then others.

(I had such bad verbal issues, that the whole class would burst laughing) 

No, I don't love to be around people because I have radically different interests then the average human.

If you'll put me in a room full of average humans, I'll try to exit it if possible and go find something more enjoyable/productive to do. (So called psychologists will label me an introvert)

If you'll put me in a room full of stage yellow/turquoise humans, I'll try to make as many friends as possible. (So called psychologists will label me an extrovert)

You see the absurdity of it?!

Most people who get introduced to these labels quickly start using them as excuses. As though the label causes the problems.

In the last few years I realized that the problems won't be fixed by addressing the label, they will be truly fixed by addressing my association with the label and then some root causes.

For example, I did lots of Tony Robbins stuff like affirmations and visualisations, which can only cover up the root causes instead of truly fixing them. In fact, whoever forgets that "Introvert"/"Extrovert" are loose labels but not facts will choose the path of covering up the root causes. 

Did covering up help me become a better public speaker? In short bursts yes, but as soon as I stoped using those shallow techinques the problem quickly came back.

What truly helped me: Understanding that the map is not the territory. 

 

[Jack River]

@MrDmitriiV

i feel ya mannice post. 

I like this parts

14 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

n the last few years I realized that the problems won't be fixed by addressing the label, they will be truly fixed by addressing my association with the label and then some root causes.

13 minutes ago, MrDmitriiV said:

No, I couldn't do public speaking properly because a series of failures created a bad imprint/memory in my brain which made me fear it even worse then others.

[Jack River]

@Faceless went into this a little with me couple days ago. Has to do with the image we formed from the past.  

[MrDmitriiV]

@Outer It's not like there's something wrong about these labels, just they way most people misuse them.

[Leo Gura]

@MrDmitriiV I think you're misunderstanding what an introvert is.

Introvert: someone who get energized being alone, drains energy being with people. Introverts make fewer but deeper friendships. Doesn't like to approach new people, prefers new people to approach them.

Extrovert: someone who gets energized being with people. Extroverts makes lots of shallow friendships. Loves to approach new people and make new friends.

[Galyna]

@Leo Gura I would disagree with you about shallow friendships for extrovert, Leo. 

[Progress]

@Galyna Agreed, seems like a very general overview. Extroverts simply have more choices and from that perspective, are more in a position for quality people. They also have the energy to sustain maximun numbers of quality people. Introverts are a natural filter for people but not a tourist trap. Extroverts have to learn to filter while Introverts have to learn to attract.

[MrDmitriiV]

@Leo Gura I passed so many different tests over the years, and I always got introvert.

Then how can I sit for 8-12 hours (not kidding) with my friend and talk almost non-stop?! 

If you'll put me in a room full of average humans, I'll try to exit it if possible and go find something more enjoyable/productive to do. (So called psychologists will label me an introvert)

If you'll put me in a room full of stage yellow/turquoise humans, I'll try to make as many friends as possible. (So called psychologists will label me an extrovert)

[Rilles]

have you ever heard of ambivert?

is the table a table or is the table a piece of wood? both of course

[aurum]

@MrDmitriiV

I'm with you on this one.

If you study energy work, there's nothing about certain people gaining energy from being alone versus being with other people.

The reasons introverts "think" they lose energy in social situations is because they're too stuck in their head. They're analyzing everything and self-monitoring, which causes them to lose energy.

You can see this for yourself in social situations. If you pay very close attention, you'll sometimes see that people who become trapped in their heads start yawning. They're exhausted.

An extrovert is really just someone who has gotten out of their head. Because they're not self-monitoring out of fear, their energy expands. And they just get more and more.

I've had both sides of these experiences numerous times.

I'll be out socializing somewhere, and as soon as I get stuck in my head, I'm exhausted. It's like I'm running a marathon, except all I'm doing is standing and talking to people.

But when I'm socializing and I'm out of my head, it's like I have endless energy. I go home feeling so jacked up that it might even carry over to the next day.

The final nail in the coffin on the whole "introvert / extrovert" debate is that I've just seen too many cases where it's arbitrary. You tweak one simple variable and suddenly an introvert becomes an extrovert. And visa versa.

It's way more accurate to say that we can be either. Stop treating these personality tests like gospel, they're more a reflection of your current self-image than anything else.

[Socrates]

@aurum That's insane man you've put it so eloquently. I have had both of these experiences and it feels exactly as you said.

I feel like there is no downside in being in an extroverted "mode" so to speak but I can't seem to know how to trigger it myself. The only way I have found is vibing with a buddy of mine but whenever I am alone I get somewhat introverted for no apparent reason. 

On all tests, my results say 95%+ extroverted but it doesn't feel like that.

When I want to socialize on my own I want to be in an extroverted mood but in order to be in that mood, I need a friend to talk to. But since i am alone i get in my head. It is a vicious cycle. 

Have you found anyways of triggering it yourself? 

[Leo Gura]

You gotta keep in mind that introversion/extroversion is a spectrum. Many people are somewhere in the middle.

For me, I am very introverted and have been my whole life. Yet most people who meet me face to face would think I am an extrovert because one-on-one I can get very animated and go into a deep conversation with some close friend. But I am terrible at small talk or meeting new people because the shallowness of it bores me and drains my energy.

For me, the introversion label fits perfectly. And I know others whom it fits perfectly too. And I also know extroverts who are just the opposite: they go into a bar and light up like a Christmas tree. As an introvert I just can't do that. Small talk wears me out. I need quiet intimate environments, not noisy clubs or bars.

All that said, I can still push myself to go to a bar and be extroverted. It just feels very unnatural.

So a lot this has to do with what feels most natural to you.

Would you rather have 100 friends who you rarely have a deep conversation with, or 3 really close friends? Extroverts tend to have 100s of friends, so many they don't even have time to meet them for more than 10 minutes. An introvert will have a couple good friends but spend hours talking to them.

Of course, as with all theories, categories, and models, don't let it limit you. Use it to deepen your understanding, and if it doesn't help you do that, throw it away. For me it's a handy distinction which explains how I tend to act.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Have you found anyways of triggering it yourself? 

The key is to work several angles congruently.

First angle is your inner game. Do things like meditation and yoga, because these are natural practices that will get you out of your head and into your body.

Second angle is owning your environment. Yeah, I can go to some random nightclub or social situation where I don't know anyone, muscle through the resistance and quickly make friends. I've done it countless times.

But why make it harder than it needs to?

Instead, deliberately structure situations where you do know people and you're a bit like the "king" of that environment. Think Dan Bilzerian, not random pickup artist running around approaching strangers.

Third angle is social momentum. Socializing is a muscle, so the more you are social the easier it becomes.

Conversely, the less social you are, the harder it becomes.

We are creatures of habits. So work that in your favor by being social as much as possible.

For instance, I have a rule that as I go about my day, I will talk to any strangers that I come across. It might just be saying "hi" to the cashier at the grocery store or striking up a conversation with the person next to me at Starbucks for 30 seconds. But I'm going to do it because I understand the importance of momentum and keeping this mouth moving. And maybe I can add a little light into their day.

You can also use momentum on a micro scale in any given social situation. I went to this white party last week where I only knew a couple of people, so the first thing I started doing was talking to whoever I saw. That built momentum throughout the night itself.

[thehero]

27 minutes ago, aurum said:

Third angle is social momentum. Socializing is a muscle, so the more you are social the easier it becomes.

 

I can attest for this

[RichardY]

I know from reading some of Psychological Types 1921 that introversion is subjective thinking (A>B), where as extroversion is objective thinking (A = A). People using various modes, but fragmented, perhaps.

Extreme Introversion - Schizophrenia.
Extreme Extroversion - Psychopath.

Like in the movies the psychopath is always the athletic weightlifting one, MEGA GAINS!!!! Perhaps like the Twilight Movies (Not seen it, but popular chick flick right?), shall I date the psychopath(werewolf) or the Schizophrenic (vampire).....

Projection - Not entirely sure how the various types use projection. I think the introverted type will tend to assume themselves as the object(existent), where as extrovert will project onto objects the contents of their psyche, strongly influenced by those around them.

The following would be extreme introversion imo.

Peter Pan - 1902
The Shadow - 1930
Bram Strokers Dracula - 1897

Or Extreme Extroversion....

Discretion Advised

 

 

[zoey101]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You gotta keep in mind that introversion/extroversion is a spectrum. Many people are somewhere in the middle.

For me, I am very introverted and have been my whole life. Yet most people who meet me face to face would think I am an extrovert because one-on-one I can get very animated and go into a deep conversation with some close friend. But I am terrible at small talk or meeting new people because the shallowness of it bores me and drains my energy.

For me, the introversion label fits perfectly. And I know others whom it fits perfectly too. And I also know extroverts who are just the opposite: they go into a bar and light up like a Christmas tree. As an introvert I just can't do that. Small talk wears me out. I need quiet intimate environments, not noisy clubs or bars.

All that said, I can still push myself to go to a bar and be extroverted. It just feels very unnatural.

So a lot this has to do with what feels most natural to you.

Would you rather have 100 friends who you rarely have a deep conversation with, or 3 really close friends? Extroverts tend to have 100s of friends, so many they don't even have time to meet them for more than 10 minutes. An introvert will have a couple good friends but spend hours talking to them.

Of course, as with all theories, categories, and models, don't let it limit you. Use it to deepen your understanding, and if it doesn't help you do that, throw it away. For me it's a handy distinction which explains how I tend to act.

I think it's really great that you are an introvert though  I think it helps your videos be a lot more approachable and relateable, personally. I feel like if you were a full on extrovert, it could come off as in-genuine, if you know what I mean. You are a great speaker, but it helps really feel like the messages you give can be applied across the board when I am able to see an "awkward, nerd" (not meant to be negative at all ) succeeding on an inwards and deep level like that  

I am definitely an extrovert when in social settings, but I am an introvert when it comes to "deep conversation". I only have a few really close friends, but it is pretty easy for me to talk to new people, if the situation demands it. So I don't really know where I would fall on that spectrum. lol

[smurf88]

On 8/5/2018 at 5:00 PM, Leo Gura said:

You gotta keep in mind that introversion/extroversion is a spectrum. Many people are somewhere in the middle.

For me, I am very introverted and have been my whole life. Yet most people who meet me face to face would think I am an extrovert because one-on-one I can get very animated and go into a deep conversation with some close friend. But I am terrible at small talk or meeting new people because the shallowness of it bores me and drains my energy.

For me, the introversion label fits perfectly. And I know others whom it fits perfectly too. And I also know extroverts who are just the opposite: they go into a bar and light up like a Christmas tree. As an introvert I just can't do that. Small talk wears me out. I need quiet intimate environments, not noisy clubs or bars.

All that said, I can still push myself to go to a bar and be extroverted. It just feels very unnatural.

So a lot this has to do with what feels most natural to you.

Would you rather have 100 friends who you rarely have a deep conversation with, or 3 really close friends? Extroverts tend to have 100s of friends, so many they don't even have time to meet them for more than 10 minutes. An introvert will have a couple good friends but spend hours talking to them.

Of course, as with all theories, categories, and models, don't let it limit you. Use it to deepen your understanding, and if it doesn't help you do that, throw it away. For me it's a handy distinction which explains how I tend to act.

I remember a while ago you had made a few videos about the idea that the enlightened person should be able to sit in a room by themselves for the rest of their life and be happy. Do you still believe this to be the case? Is it something that is attainable?

I've been experimenting with this for a while and after several days of keeping to myself I find that I get a lot of unwanted feelings of anxiety, as though I am scared of something even though nothing has happened. Not sure if I should bother to keep trying or just start socializing more again.

Edited August 6, 2018 by smurf88

[MrDmitriiV]

@Leo Gura Thanks for your answer! I get it now)

[Moreira]

All my childhood I wasa harassed by psychologyst and teachers that told to my mother that I wasnt normal, that was something wrong in me . Just because I dont behave like the mainstream society patterns? 

Observing deep down my personality I reached to the conclusion that my introversion is a hard survival instinct. Thats my defaul behaviour and no matter how I fight to be social and brave whyen I let go and get homeostasis all things come back to the beginning.

Squirrels and other wild animals are fearful by nature. The abnormal are the ones domesticated by being in contact to humans.

[RichardY]

 

@Moreira Animals on islands aren't fearful.

The ones that aren't "fearful"(they are). Are because they have been domesticated to a more collective nature. Take a dog or a child for instance, leave it by itself for 5 minutes, watch it obviously, and it'll go nuts, just a a question of scale. Same with chickens....., highly collective and domesticated. The more extroverted by temperament, the more nuts they'll go in isolation.