Is enlightenment just a waste of time?

[Key Elements]

This sounds informative. 

 

[blazed]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Problem solved. Now they will be ready to start doing spiritual practices.

Or they'll just settle for the psychadelics trips.

Who wants wants to do the hardest thing in the world anyway?

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

@blazed

THE HARDEST AND THE EASIEST THING IN PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT

The hardest and the easiest thing is to be 100% governed by 'in here' versus 'out there'.  That's a trend in advanced Personal Development -- to get you to be more 'in here' oriented than 'out there' oriented.  Once you have 'in here' figured out, 'out there' takes care of itself.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Rinne]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

By your logic, there isn't a me to get what you're saying, nor is there a you to complain about my not getting it

???

[jse]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't muddy the waters here with petty pedantry.

There is nothing pedantic about nonduality - don't confuse the messenger for the message.
This is what muddying the waters with the intellectual mind's obfuscation looks like:

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

By your logic, there isn't a me to get what you're saying, nor is there a you to complain about my not getting it
You are mixing up relative and absolute levels.

 

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, jse said:

There is nothing pedantic about nonduality - don't confuse the messenger for the message.
This is what muddying the waters with the intellectual mind's obfuscation looks like:

A taste of your own pedantic medicine

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, blazed said:

Or they'll just settle for the psychadelics trips.

Traps abound in this work.

We overcome the lower traps to advance to the higher traps.

[ajasatya]

On 02/08/2018 at 8:05 PM, Widdle Puppy said:

Is enlightenment just a waste of time?

no. it is real. full realization is doable. it's just too rare.

if you're not willing to throw your entire life away for Truth's sake, then it's not for you. go play video games, seek endless job promotions or something like that instead.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

no. it is real. full realization is doable. it's just too rare.

if you're not willing to throw your entire life away for Truth's sake, then it's not for you. go play video games, seek endless job promotions or something like that instead.

I don't think the question was whether it's doable. The question was, why do it?

[jse]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

A taste of your own pedantic medicine

Your obvious inability to tolerate criticism and your resorting to ad hominem attacks in order to defend your self-obsessed over-intellectualized viewpoint, speaks volumes for the path you are on.

My hope is that as time passes and failures (such as your 30-day psychedelic retreat) mount up, more of your adoring fans will see through the messenger and chose the message instead.

[Key Elements]

On 02/08/2018 at 4:05 PM, Widdle Puppy said:

 I'm cool with this paradox but I think for some of us to make progress or even live our lives it's not worth doing any of this stuff and just living our lives normally. 

You know, I really like your post. I'm really glad that you're cool about it. One of the things I see here is, one person really doesn't fully understand what the other person is going through or has gone through. And, therefore, they don't know where on the path the person is. It's really important not to make assumptions of the other person. But, unfortunately, many ppl do that unknowingly. I would say, before you make a decision, don't just take any advice. Explore other options in depth. What works for one person may be a complete bomb for another. You got to be careful on this one. We're all different. 

[Saumaya]

@Widdle Puppy if you are asking this question, then yes

[Leo Gura]

30 minutes ago, jse said:

Your obvious inability to tolerate criticism and your resorting to ad hominem attacks in order to defend your self-obsessed over-intellectualized viewpoint, speaks volumes for the path you are on.

My hope is that as time passes and failures (such as your 30-day psychedelic retreat) mount up, more of your adoring fans will see through the messenger and chose the message instead.

Lol, so passive-aggressive!

[SgtPepper]

42 minutes ago, jse said:

Your obvious inability to tolerate criticism and your resorting to ad hominem attacks in order to defend your self-obsessed over-intellectualized viewpoint, speaks volumes for the path you are on.

My hope is that as time passes and failures (such as your 30-day psychedelic retreat) mount up, more of your adoring fans will see through the messenger and chose the message instead.

what is your issue?

It seems like you're just looking for conflict. 

Also, It's so easy to criticize others...

[SgtPepper]

20 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

Many seekers avoid psychedelics because: 

1. It could just be some stupid brain shit going on. All you who praise psychedelics and have used them: you should know that psychedelics cause all kind of stupid weird nonsense illusions. So why would we trust anything which psychedelics create? If during a trip all people turn into pink elephants do you then make the conclusion that all human beings are actually pink elephants disguised as human beings? Do you trust what psychedelics show you? You think what psychedelics show you is the Truth?

2. It's not true that you can easily go beyond the ego with psychedelics. Many people take psychedelics and don't get any such experiences.

What? Is there death penalty for that in Russia?

1. Just from your post, I can easily tell you have not tried psychedelics. Pink elephants? your placing faith in propaganda instead of your direct experience.

2. That's because psychedelics are a tool like anything else. set and setting needs to be accounted for. So if a seeker wants to gain insights into reality, he should set the intention to contemplate what is happening in his/her direct experience while on a psychedelic, as well as do it in a space where contemplation can be done. In addition, many people do not easily go beyond the ego because they do not take higher doses. Most recreational users I know don't go higher than 2.5-3.5g of mushrooms or 150ug of LSD. They distract themselves with movies and video games or they may end up confused by what they experience. 

Psychedelics are complicated to describe, but they essentially raise your 'consciousness level'.

To OP, I have actually wrestled with the same question you are asking and seeking enlightenment is definitely a niche path. At the moment, I am content with my psychedelic adventures and daily sober meditation practice (although sometimes I miss, need to work on discipline). I have always been naturally curious about the universe, reality, and God since I was a kid. As a result, my lifestyle has been giving me many insights into reality. I am often in congruence with Leo's video, but definitely feel he has more depth in understanding reality. 

Being 23, I do not feel I am a point where I can devote my life to becoming enlightenment (meditating 4 hours+ a day) because I still have a career to build and I want the wife-children set up. However, my practices have been sufficient, I have gotten DEEP non-duality experiences and insights about myself and the universe through my practices. I advocate psychedelics because they've definitely sped up the process. 

However, it can easily change. I would say enlightenment path is worth it. You're essentially asking whether knowing the Truth is a waste of time or not. Just answer that for yourself and then let your intuition guide you. 

 

 

[SgtPepper]

9 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

As a side note: most people in this community actually doing psychedelics seriously, were already doing them before Leo ever talked about them. The other people who never tried them, mostly had an ego backlash when Leo started talking about them.

We're not blindly following everything Leo says and we didn't start raving about psychedelics just because he started talking about them. I started following Leo precisely because I had already tried psychedelics and I understood what he was talking about since the beginning.

I also don't believe that the 30-day retreat he did was a failure. That's yet another ego backlash from the anti-psychedelic crowd. They took that as an opportunity to criticize him by saying that because Leo uses psychedelics, he's going down this weird rabbit hole and this interfered with his ability to meditate for 30 days straight. But to me, that seems more a projection of their fear of psychedelics and inability to change their mind about spiritual use of substances. I watched all the vlogs of the retreat and there were some huge insights there. Just because it ended before expected, doesn't mean much. A 30-day retreat, especially done for the first time, is not a joke. 

It might seem I'm gossiping or trying to defend Leo or something, but actually I'm just trying to point out that there's still a big stigma around psychedelics, and the pioneering work Leo is doing with them, even in this community. And that's how it's gotta be. 

I agree with everything you said.

Psychedelics were why I even got into meditation which lead me to finding actualized.org (Leo's how to meditate video). I definitely felt conflicted when Leo originally claimed psychedelics were a distraction, but I still could not shake my personal experiences and kept doing them anyways for consciousness expanding purposes. When Leo came out advocating psychedelics, I was literally shocked and even more excited than I already was to see where his videos were going. 

[Naviy]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Buy a plane ticket.

Yeah, I know.

For me not having access to psychedelics is one of the things that bother me the most. I want to grow further and I'm getting a little bit sick of being so slow and inefficient in the process of discovering truth. I want to have access to psychedelics. I think I am ready to start using them efficiently.  

But there are obstacles right now. My life circumstances are changing radically at this moment (moved to another country, married, quit my profession, working on a Life Purpose and figuring out how to financially support myself in all these new circumstances).

It's planned for me, though, to get access to psychedelics in future, of course. I'm disappointed that I have not done it yet, but there are objective reasons for it right now, really (yeah, yeah, not an excuse, I just want to express my bitterness and disappointment that's it ). 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Naviy

[Saumaya]

30 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Is it possible to elaborate more on that?

Enlightenment is not exactly a choice. Enlightenment is pursued for truth's sake. If someone pursues enlightenment for their uses or wondering how much "free will" they have, then they are not serious. Why waste your energy on a pursuit you won't get results from, unless you are serious about it. When the time is right, enlightenment will become the only choice, otherwise imo, it's just a distraction from life.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Saumaya

[Widdle Puppy]

so what happens when this body dies or whatever we have labeled as death? if there is no such thing as bad or good okay I can see that and I can also see this ego logically and how i'm a slave to my desires and aversions. I have meditated quite a bit and do see the benefit of that and doing this work. But at the same time I see it as being pointless as well. if there is no point to anything and no good or bad or no shoulds then whatever, why not just chase my cravings and live with my ego? I'm fine meditating and learning about my emotions if it makes me happier and a better person. why do all this super hard spiritual work and give up though and just settle for a decent life? won't this ego illusion disappear when the body it seems to be in is dead anyway? and if there is so free will then isn't it all something i never did in the first place? seems like my life would be better focusing on raising myself, getting more money and ensuring a long and fun life

Edited August 4, 2018 by Widdle Puppy

[Saumaya]

10 minutes ago, Widdle Puppy said:

so what happens when this body dies or whatever we have labeled as death? if there is no such thing as bad or good okay I can see that and I can also see this ego logically and how i'm a slave to my desires and aversions. I have meditated quite a bit and do see the benefit of that and doing this work. But at the same time I see it as being pointless as well. if there is no point to anything and no good or bad or no shoulds then whatever, why not just chase my cravings and live with my ego? I'm fine meditating and learning about my emotions if it makes me happier and a better person. why do all this super hard spiritual work and give up though and just settle for a decent life? won't this ego illusion disappear when the body it seems to be in is dead anyway? and if there is so free will then isn't it all something i never did in the first place? seems like my life would be better focusing on raising myself, getting more money and ensuring a long and fun life

Being mature person is much better than being an enlightenmened person, though enlightenment does make being mature easier. It all comes down to what you want. You can do anything you want, but what do you actually want to do? As you become more mature, your quality of wants will also mature. Do what needs to be done, and desire what you truly wish to desire.