What do I do with this?

[Forestluv]

@zoey101 I’ve been there too. Most of it is programming/conditioning from my parents. 

I’ve found it helpful to relax the mind in meditation and observe the thoughts and emotions without identifying with them. As if I was watching a documentary of other people. Just watching without identifying can have a “Hmmm, well isn’t that interesting” kind of feel.

Also, I changed the frame from “I hate myself” to “I lack self love”. Then my mind shifted from focusing on why I hate myself to how I could love myself.

I’ve experienced realizations that the self is an illusion. Yet during my process of actualuzation, that self returns. At times, I’m aware if it and witnessing. Other times, there is immersion into the character. Immersion into The Story of me and my life. I’ve found it helpful to love this character. When the personality relaxes, there is space to experience what’s happening and for insights to arise.

[zoey101]

2 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@zoey101

the self-thought is always trying to seek psychological security in itself. Just be aware of that for now. 

If you look very carefully you will notice that this movement of fear is in motion pretty much all the time. When you are aware of this movement in yourself, in that awareness-attention, is action in of itself. When you are aware of that movement you see that it looses its power and dissolved on its own. 

Okay, I will try. Thank you.

[Faceless]

Just now, zoey101 said:

Okay, I will try. Thank you.

Let me know if you are confused about anything I said. I will look for something to send you by message to further explain it as well. 

This problem you have is not unique to you, but is very common to the conditioned consciousness. We are all together in this, my friend.

[Faceless]

@Feel Good

We communicate with one another, because we are responsible for one another. 

We are all the same here, no teacher-student authority, but friend-friend learning-sharing. 

Right? 

[Faceless]

Just now, Feel Good said:

Yes. Got you. 

My request is can you/we just keep it on the forum so that communication can continue for the benefit of all. 

Anyone who is interested in this can find me here.??

Its the most interesting subject to me personally. 

[robdl]

43 minutes ago, zoey101 said:

I kind of understand that...

I caused and created all my problems in my mind.. no one else sees them as a problem but me, so I need to just stop seeing it as a problem and just move on.. right..?

The movement of thought-self invokes problems then goes about dwelling on the problem, which perpetuates the sense of the "I" or "thinker" or "problem haver/solver."

You say "I created all my problems."  You could also say "problems created 'I"".  Both statements are true, as the "I" is made out of thought, as are problems.  So either way, you are saying, "thought causes/creates thought."  Thought is self-sustaining in this manner.

I (thought) create problems (thought) = thought causing/creating thought.  Self-feeding thought loop.

Edited August 1, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, robdl said:

The movement of thought-self invokes problems then goes about dwelling on the problem, which perpetuates the sense of the "I" or "thinker" or "problem haver/solver."

You say "I created all my problems."  You could also say "problems created 'I"".  Both statements are true, as the "I" is made out of thought, as are problems.  So either way, you are saying, "thought causes/creates thought."  Thought is self-sustaining in this manner.

Ultimate Wisdom??

[robdl]

The "I" separates itself from mind's problems and then feels that the problems need to be solved or denied.  But "problems" and "I" are within one and the same movement of thought-time.  This is what is meant by the observer ("I") is the observed ("problems").

Edited August 1, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

It seems silly to be in conflict with my own thought. 

Indeed lol 

ultimately the division-duality that thought invented as “the i” and what “it thinks” inevitably leads to, and breeds conflict. 

Divison always implies conflict. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

18 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

When I'm in conflict with someone, I am actually in conflict with a thought I created about another. Both those thoughts "I" and "you" belong to me, they are both the same movement. 

Noticing this is what is actually going on is the ending of the conflict. It seems silly to be in conflict with my own thought. 

? 

 

Let's say "you" are angry at someone.  The "I" has separated itself from the "anger".  The "I" then resists/fights this anger or justifies/relishes in it. But the "I" and the "anger" are one and the same movement of thought-self.  If there is holistic understanding into all of this, where can there be conflict if the "I" and "anger" aren't seen as separate? As @Faceless pointed to, the division/duality of thinker-thought breeds/implies conflict.

Edited August 1, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, robdl said:

Let's say "you" are angry at someone.  The "I" has separated itself from the "anger".  The "I" then resists/fights this anger or justifies/relishes in it. But the "I" and the "anger" are one and the same movement of thought-self.

Yes...

it’s important to see when this division-duality is in motion.

The seeing of that, is the ending of that dualistic movement with its contradictory and incomplete action 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Faceless

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, zoey101 said:

I actually have an irrational fear of mirrors... go figure... but I get what you are saying... is that the kind of stuff that gets done through meditation..? I have meditated but just focused on breathing and silence.. so I'm not sure...

@zoey101 If mirrors scare you, you can use a picture as well. It would be perfect if you had a picture of yourself from 'that' time.
The important thing is to establish a relationship with the other you. Talk to her. It would be perfect if you talked to her out loud, but if it is difficult because you are not alone, then talk with your inner voice. Make peace with her.

[zoey101]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@zoey101 I’ve been there too. Most of it is programming/conditioning from my parents. 

I’ve found it helpful to relax the mind in meditation and observe the thoughts and emotions without identifying with them. As if I was watching a documentary of other people. Just watching without identifying can have a “Hmmm, well isn’t that interesting” kind of feel.

Also, I changed the frame from “I hate myself” to “I lack self love”. Then my mind shifted from focusing on why I hate myself to how I could love myself.

I’ve experienced realizations that the self is an illusion. Yet during my process of actualuzation, that self returns. At times, I’m aware if it and witnessing. Other times, there is immersion into the character. Immersion into The Story of me and my life. I’ve found it helpful to love this character. When the personality relaxes, there is space to experience what’s happening and for insights to arise.

wow, thank you.. that was really beautiful.. I felt a tug in my heart while reading that..

2 hours ago, Faceless said:

Let me know if you are confused about anything I said. I will look for something to send you by message to further explain it as well. 

This problem you have is not unique to you, but is very common to the conditioned consciousness. We are all together in this, my friend.

Thank you

2 hours ago, Feel Good said:

Keep it in the forum so that everyone can learn from you 

I will try to keep it on here. 

2 hours ago, robdl said:

The movement of thought-self invokes problems then goes about dwelling on the problem, which perpetuates the sense of the "I" or "thinker" or "problem haver/solver."

You say "I created all my problems."  You could also say "problems created 'I"".  Both statements are true, as the "I" is made out of thought, as are problems.  So either way, you are saying, "thought causes/creates thought."  Thought is self-sustaining in this manner.

I (thought) create problems (thought) = thought causing/creating thought.  Self-feeding thought loop.

As confusing as that was to read, I think I understand... they both kind of feed of of each other and when you find yourself stuck in the loop you give more power to your "ego" and it is harder to break from it...

like that?

1 hour ago, Feel Good said:

When I'm in conflict with someone, I am actually in conflict with a thought I created about another. Both those thoughts "I" and "you" belong to me, they are both the same movement. 

Noticing this is what is actually going on is the ending of the conflict. It seems silly to be in conflict with my own thought. 

? 

I can see how I've done that.. Definitely something I'll need to think on... 

1 hour ago, tsuki said:

@zoey101 If mirrors scare you, you can use a picture as well. It would be perfect if you had a picture of yourself from 'that' time.
The important thing is to establish a relationship with the other you. Talk to her. It would be perfect if you talked to her out loud, but if it is difficult because you are not alone, then talk with your inner voice. Make peace with her.

Thank you.. and I don't have any but I can get them from my old Facebook account, I suppose. I spent my lunch break trying to "talk to her". I didn't really know what to say so I kept repeating "there is nothing wrong with you", "you are worthy to be loved and deserve to love yourself", things like that... I'm not sure how much that will do.. but I feel a little better 

 

God.. sorry for the long post!

Edited August 1, 2018 by zoey101

[robdl]

13 minutes ago, zoey101 said:

As confusing as that was to read, I think I understand... they both kind of feed of of each other and when you find yourself stuck in the loop you give more power to your "ego" and it is harder to break from it...

like that?

 

Indeed.  Problems nourish "I" and "I" nourishes problems.  As it's thought nourishing thought, either way you look at it - stuck in a loop.

But it's important to know:

"You" = thought loop = ego.  All one and the same thing/movement of thought-self.  

When you say "you" are stuck in the loop and this results in strengthening the ego, it sounds if the "you", loop, and ego are different things. But the "you", the loop, and ego are different expressions for one and the same thing! 

The loop is the ego/"you"!!

The movement of thought seeks security in itself.  This is ego.  This is a loop.  This is "I." All one and the same.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by robdl

[zoey101]

7 minutes ago, robdl said:

The movement of thought seeks security in itself.  This is ego.  This is a loop.  This is "I." All one and the same.

Alright, thank you. 

[zoey101]

@tsuki So I think I found the picture I have to use... This one made me feel uneasy, so I thought that was as clear a sign as any. I am 19 in this picture...

 

[robdl]

Thought, in the form of the "thinker" or "I", inherently creates a sense of separation from other thoughts, so it becomes "My problems" or "I'm stuck in a thought-loop."  But in actuality, "I" and problems/the thought-loop are of one and the same movement, only thought doesn't realize this is so. @zoey101

Can you see how astonishingly sneaky/self-deceptive thought is?  It conjures an "I" and then forgets/doesn't realize it has done so.  Then the "I" reacts against other thoughts as if it were the possessor of those thoughts.  But it's all just the movement of thought.

Edited August 1, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

42 minutes ago, robdl said:

The loop is the ego/"you"!!

Indeed....

 

Any action taken as that loop-ego, who wants to escape that loop, remains an action bound by the loop. 

Most try and escape the loop by further nourishing the loop with will-effort-desire to end it. 

This is trying to escape the probem as if it was seperate from you. If “you” are that, there is no action that “the you” can take to end it, because you are it. 

Most people do not want to face the inevitable relationship with the problem, (that the loop is the problem)...We always avoid the unavoidable relationship with the fact , and in so doing never understand how the relationship causes conflict. We must not avoid the fact, but observe and understand it.  After all,  we cannot understand a problem without sufficient understanding of it right? 

In communing with the problem , not trying to solve it, (seek instant gratification to temporarily end the problem), if we instead understand the problem because we stay with it, learn about it through watchfulness, only then comes the answer. As long as we are searching for a means to an end, thought-self- the loop, will continue to deceive itself and seek security in illusion, which is an expression of that self-feeding loop. 

 

There must be freedom to look at the problem without that looking being corrupted by our own desire to feel psychologically secure. Otherwise we simply are trying to seek security in our own invention of thinking. The cause of irrational thought. 

 

To me, the most significant thing to understand is the self-thought, and this movement to maintain security in the illusory structure of psychological time. In this comes silence. 

Holistic understanding of course. 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

Once this understanding is seen as one unitary movement, instead of being “seemingly” a bunch of different parts and movements, awareness becomes much more effortless and holistic. 

Freedom comes in seeing the whole of that movement, and maintaining choicelss awareness to that unitary moment as “the i” or (fear), that seeks psychological secure in time. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

8 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Any action taken as that loop-ego, who wants to escape that loop, remains an action bound by the loop. 

Most try and escape the loop by further nourishing the loop with will-effort-desire to end it. 

This is trying to escape the probem as if it was seperate from you. If “you” are that, there is no action that “the you” can take to end it, because you are it. 

Most people do not want to face the inevitable relationship with the problem, (that the loop is the problem)...We always avoid the unavoidable relationship with the fact , and in so doing never understand how the relationship causes conflict. We must not avoid the fact, but observe and understand it.  After all,  we cannot understand a problem without sufficient understanding of it right? 

In communing with the problem , not trying to solve it, (seek instant gratification to temporarily end the problem), if we instead understand the problem because we stay with it, learn about it through watchfulness, only then comes the answer. As long as we are searching for a means to an end, thought-self- the loop, will continue to deceive itself and seek security in illusion, which is an expression of that self-feeding loop. 

 

There must be freedom to look at the problem without that looking being corrupted by our own desire to feel psychologically secure. 

 

To me, the most significant thing to understand is the self-thought and this movement to maintain security in the illusory structure of psychological time. In this comes silence. 

 

 

Thought is actually hilarious in a way.  Thinking that it will strive to break out of the loop.  Like someone who's dug themselves a hole saying, "Okay, I'll just dig my way out of here."  Or trying to put out a gasoline fire by trying to extinguish it with gas.  Perpetuating the cause of the problem in a futile attempt to end the problem lol.

Edited August 1, 2018 by robdl