Gurus/Mystics/Teachers opinion on psychedelic use list.

[blazed]

More on Jiddu-Krishnamurti:

"Why should one not take drugs? You apparently seem to be against it. Your own prominent friends have taken them, have written books about them, encouraged others to take them, and they have experienced with great intensity the beauty of a simple flower. We, too, have taken them and we would like to know why you seem to be opposed to these chemical experiences. After all, our whole physical organism is a biochemical process, and adding to it an extra chemical may give us an experience which may be an approximation to the real. You yourself have not taken drugs, have you? So how can you, without experimenting condemn them?"

No, we have not taken drugs. Must one get drunk to know what sobriety is? Must one make oneself ill to find out what health is? As there are several things involved in taking drugs, let us go into the whole question with care. What is the necessity of taking drugs at all - drugs that promise a psychedelic expansion of the mind, great visions and intensity? Apparently one takes them because one's own perceptions are dull. Clarity is dimmed and one's life is rather shallow, mediocre and meaningless; one takes them to go beyond this mediocrity.

The intellectuals have made of the drugs a new way of life. One sees throughout the world the discord, the neurotic compulsions, the conflicts, the aching misery of life. One is aware of the aggressiveness of man, his brutality, his utter selfishness, which no religion, no law, no social morality has been able to tame.

There is so much anarchy in man - and such scientific capacities. This imbalance brings about havoc in the world. The unbridgable gap between advanced technology and the cruelty of man is producing great chaos and misery. This is obvious. So the intellectual, who has played with various theories - Vedanta, Zen, Communist ideals, and so on - having found no way out of man's predicament, is now turning to the golden drug that will bring about dynamic sanity and harmony. The discovery of this golden drug - the complete answer to everything - is expected of the scientist and probably he will produce it. And the authors and the intellectuals will advocate it to stop all wars, as yesterday they advocated Communism or Fascism.

But the mind, with its extraordinary capacities for scientific discoveries and their implementation, is still petty, narrow and bigoted, and will surely continue, will it not, in its pettiness? You may have a tremendous and explosive experience through one of these drugs, but will the deep-rooted aggression, bestiality and sorrow of man disappear? If these drugs can solve the intricate and complex problems of relationship, then there is nothing more to be said, for then relationship, the demand for truth, the ending of sorrow, are all a very superficial affair to be resolved by taking a pinch of the new golden drug.

Surely this is a false approach, isn't it? It is said that these drugs give an experience approximating to reality therefore they give hope and encouragement. But the shadow is not the real; the symbol is never the fact. As is observed throughout the world, the symbol is worshipped and not the truth. So isn't it a phoney assertion to say that the result of these drugs is near the truth?

No dynamic golden pill is ever going to solve our human problems. They can be solved only by bringing about a radical revolution in the mind and the heart of man. This demands hard, constant work, seeing and listening, and thus being highly sensitive.

The highest form of sensitivity is the highest intelligence, and no drug ever invented by man will give this intelligence. Without this intelligence there is no love; and love is relationship. Without this love there is no dynamic balance in man. This love cannot be given - by the priests or their gods, by the philosophers, or by the golden drug.

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Interesting point:

Must one do Meth and Heroine and become an addict and go through recovery to learn from direct experience before one can conclude and avoid meth and heroine?

Would one need to smoke cigarettes and get lung cancer in direct experience before one could conclude and avoid through intellect and learning alone? (When cigarettes were new people argued about them not being addictive and harmful, one would argue it helps them relax, free from stress and problems, and its somewhat meditative, it was only after science pounded it for years that we have generally accepted that smoking is terrible, even without years of direct experience required).

So there is a lot of hypocrisy here from the psychadelic users, I bet they don't go through everything and try everything in direct experience.

So here's the winning idea: Why need anything at all? Isn't the enligthenment the end of all seeking and suffering? and if so shouldn't one be practicing abstaining from everything in meditation sessions rather than more doing more, adding more chemicals to the body, and changing brain chemistry through force, boosting the illusory senses and bringing about more mystical experiences?

[Prabhaker]

On 7/30/2018 at 1:12 AM, blazed said:

Should be someone that falls into a similar league as the above people, not just some westerner individual who's having a good time with the drugs.

Before industrialization, it was very difficult to create wealth, so all masters renounced wealth.

Jesus said,"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Buddha and many other eastern masters renounced their wealth, to set an example.

But now no master can say that "No rich man can become enlightened."

On the contrary they are attracting rich people and most of the modern masters are wealthy.

Masters don't speak about use of drugs on a spiritual path, may be because most of us are not prepared for it, and there can be some legal problems.

 

[molosku]

13 hours ago, blazed said:

Papaji: (not a drug related but interesting quote)

 Q: "Do you foresee a time in the not too distant future when there will be many people on earth who are Enlightened?"
   A: "There is no future, there are no people, there is no earth, there is no one seeking Enlightenment, and no one gaining it.
   This is the final and only Truth."

Isn't it annoying when someone undercuts you entire question with superior metaphysical understanding? Hate those kinds of know-it-alls...

My take on this issue: You have only one life to spend, and psychedelics are available. Why. On. Earth you would not be interested in how it's like? Even juts once? If ones spirituality and clarity is so weak that one trip will destroy your spiritual progress, reconsider your current practices. Same with any substance. Try it once (not meaning you need to try every kind of psychedelic), see how it is. If there is value there, mine it.

Edited August 1, 2018 by molosku