Gurus/Mystics/Teachers opinion on psychedelic use list.

[cirkussmile]

9 hours ago, molosku said:

@Leo Gura

 

 

This is absolutely hilarious ? 

[Hsinav]

22 hours ago, blazed said:

Alan Watts - Tried = ? (Lsd) Recommends = No 

"it should be used like medicine, not a diet. I would not be put out if LSD vanished from the world tomorrow, you dont take this every so often, its something you take a few times with diminishing until you had it. But other people seem to keep taking it and bigger and bigger as if they were looking to find something (lol reminds me of Leo).

 

 

[Hsinav]

22 hours ago, blazed said:

Eckhart Tolle - psychedelics tried = Yes (LSD/ACID & WEED). Recommends = No.

He says its maple syrup for the mind. (can't find the clip about acid use video he had with Oprah right now).

 

 

[Hsinav]

 

[Hsinav]

 

[Hsinav]

What a lot of people don´t understand here is that the way Leo works with psychedelics is groundbreaking and not many people on earth

have this experience.

[Joseph Maynor]

5 hours ago, Feel Good said:

@Joseph Maynor

What you are seeing is Eckhart Tolle's teaching method.

So your new paradigm is the transcendence of paradigms. Which is also your own teaching method. 

 

Actually it’s more intuitive than that about Eckhart Tolle.  It’s just a sense I get.  And I could be wrong, right.  I haven’t watched all of his videos.  And I like Eckhart Tolle, he’s my third favorite of the famous gurus.  For me it’s Adyashanti and Mooji kinda both at the same level as 1 and 2, and then Eckhart Tolle at 3.  So, I rate Eckhart Tolle very highly.  I’m just nit-picking on a vibe I picked up after watching many videos of his.  It’s a stiff vibe like I mentioned.  It’s a tendency to conceptualize BE-ing, even if it’s ever so slightly.

On another issue you raised: there’s a difference between rigidly clinging to paradigms about ‘reality’ to loosely clinging to more or less useful frameworks.  This is one way Conceptual Understanding helps Enlightenment.  I’m not stuck in Tier-One Epistemology or Tier-One.  Most people are stuck by default in Tier-One Conceptual Understanding which screws up their Enlightenment.  There is a sense in which work in Conceptual Understanding helps Enlightenment.  But I agree with what you say — every Enlightenment teacher has to have some framework for teaching Enlightenment.  

Edited July 30, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

14 hours ago, cirkussmile said:

Drugs is a tool. But if you’re using psychedelics over and over again and open the door to heaven over and over again you are clearly missing something. 

The natural state is beyond any psychedelic experience. Freedom can not come as long as you haven’t transcended psychedelics. 

If you can’t understand who you are now without psychedelics you will never be liberated. Eventually you have to let go of it.

Meditation. Do it. Don’t let the amazing talk about psychedelics fool you! Don’t fall in the trap! 

I agree with this 100%.

[Hsinav]

Crystal clear  answer by Mooji

[pluto]

@Rinne https://obsproject.com/

[Rinne]

@pluto Awesome really appreciate your response man. 

[Forestluv]

@blazed Your list is missing the most important person of all

[blazed]

On 30/07/2018 at 6:26 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

I wonder what Adyashanti thinks about using psychedelics on the Enlightenment Path.

Need to find out more but this was interesting:

Adyashanti says:

   "...the state of consciousness that a great majority of humanity is in is not natural. It's altered. We do not need to go looking for altered states of consciousness; humanity is already in an altered state of consciousness. It's called separation. Separation is the ultimate altered state of consciousness...Contrary to a popular misunderstanding, enlightenment has nothing to do with an altered state of consciousness. Enlightenment is an unaltered state of consciousness. It is pure consciousness as it actually is, before it is turned into something, before it is altered in any way." (23)

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, blazed said:

Need to find out more but this was interesting:

Adyashanti says:

   "...the state of consciousness that a great majority of humanity is in is not natural. It's altered. We do not need to go looking for altered states of consciousness; humanity is already in an altered state of consciousness. It's called separation. Separation is the ultimate altered state of consciousness...Contrary to a popular misunderstanding, enlightenment has nothing to do with an altered state of consciousness. Enlightenment is an unaltered state of consciousness. It is pure consciousness as it actually is, before it is turned into something, before it is altered in any way." (23)

It makes total sense to me brah

I have consumed various types of psychedelics personally. This relates to what I have been through within this last month. I tried to talk about this with all my psychedelic partner-buddies. They seem to be talking about the same old altered state. What I am talking about seems totally different. I actually have read about a similar unaltered state here on the forum and reached out to them personally. 

A lot of radical dudes and dudets here I must say. It’s a pleasure to talk with you guys. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Jack River said:

It makes total sense to me brah

I have consumed various types of psychedelics personally. This relates to what I have been through within this last month. I tried to talk about this with all my psychedelic partner-buddies. They seem to be talking about the same old altered state. What I am talking about seems totally different. I actually have read about a similar unaltered state here on the forum and reached out to them personally. 

A lot of radical dudes and dudets here I must say. It’s a pleasure to talk with you guys. 

What do you mean by 'radical'?  I'm a pretty normal dude actually.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Jack River]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What do you mean by 'radical'?  I'm a pretty normal dude actually.

My bad using the word radical. I mean Rad as in awesome????

 

[Jack River]

My favorite poster on here seems like a very down to earth dude. Which makes for chill conversation. 

Chill is Rad 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Jack River

[blazed]

Interesting read from an LSD user: http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/haveyoueverbeen.html

some interesting snippets:

In the case of psychedelics, such as LSD, other considerations apply. While we still will argue that they do not “expand" the mind or consciousness (which is not an experience, but that which is aware of experience), they have affects that may seem to do so, in the sense that they can temporarily reduce ones identification with certain limited assumptions, such as body-identification, and may also give a flash, a glimpse that the world is an idea, which is a step towards the advaitic realization that all is Mind. The problem is that they may also definitely NOT “purify Buddhi,” or the ability to discern truth from falsehood, especially when their immediate effects wear off. The ability to concentrate effectively may be lessened - it is unlikely that they can increase ones ability to deeply concentrate, as in reaching samadhi or penetrating the third eye and going to higher planes voluntarily - and the ability to make feeling connections may also be either enhanced or decreased, depending on many unpredictable personal, individual factors, including the biological condition of ones brain. Hence there are risks involved.

--

Dr. John Mumford warns the Western student of attempting to mimic the drug use of the qualified Tantric practitioner:

   "Indiscriminate use of conscious-expanding drugs without prior mental training and the absolute physical discipline imparted by years of Hatha and Raja Kriya is equivalent to dynamiting open the door to a treasure vault (the unconscious mind) and discovering the blast has destroyed half the treasure plus irreparably damaging the door so that it cannot easily be shut at will.

   The karmic basis of life is that a price is exacted for everything, including illumination. The Yogi or Tantrist pays his karma through his years of practice and discipline well before ever opening the mind with a psychedelic drug.....Most Westerners dropping "acid" or other such substances risk paying a karmic debt after the experience with depression, inability to cope, de-realization, depersonalization, psychological malaise, and in some cases precipitation of latent schizophrenia or recurrent psychotic episodes." (5)

--

Sant Kirpal Singh remarked that the use of such drugs was "a mockery of the divine grace". Sant Rajinder Singh affirms the view that drugs lower one’s consciousness. Most importantly, truth or realization is not just an acquirable experience, but "a turnabout in the deep seat of understanding AND the incomparable transformation-death of the Bodhisattva's individualized will control" (6), and this must be paid for with the sacrifice and submission of one's whole being, whether or not one ingests a particular herb or other substance on any occasion. Roshi Philip Kapleau remarked:

 "the spiritual heights can no more be scaled by smoking pot and dropping acid than a mountain can be climbed by looking at a map of it while reclining in an easy chair drinking beer. It is the climbing that brings joy and strength - joy in the release from the bondage of self and mountain, top and bottom; strength to LIVE in this realization." (7)

--
Many a soul has doubted his own existence while on LSD! Perhaps a few have had intimations of the ineffable as well. This writer remembers a decidedly unphilosophically inclined friend of his at Cornell who sat for hours on acid repeating, "It's all the same, IT'S all the same, it's ALL the same, it's all the SAME, it's all the same, IT'S ALL THE SAME!......" But the next morning it wasn't, nor was he. (Reminds me of Leo lol, Isn't this exactly what Leo was saying over and over in one of his videos?)

   In The Web of Life John Davidson makes the following statement regarding the effects of various mind-altering drugs:

   "In general terms, brain drugs such as LSD and L-dopa can move the center of attention into the more subtle physical realms by biochemically ligaturing part of the physical brain pathways, thereby forcing attention to focus on the more inward subtle constitution." (18)

   This, no doubt, sometimes occurs, but even so it still would not amount to anything of lasting spiritual significance, for the reason that it is only more experience (in this case of the inner aspects of the brain), and not the transcendence of experience itself. Moreover, we have the strong warning from primal therapist Arthur Janov that such drugs as LSD can do serious damage to the gating (pain defense) mechanisms of the nervous system, even permanently altering the pathways between the reptilian, limbic and cortical areas of the brain. This can lead to extreme difficulty in accessing feelings and thus opening the heart. There is also the danger of psychosis in those whose “gates” are already too open.

--

Marilyn Ferguson stated years ago:

   "It is impossible to overestimate the importance of psychedelics as an entry point drawing people into other transformational technology." (19)

--

  We conclude this discussion simply by agreeing that there is in fact a spiritual way, but there is likely no pharmaceutical - or even yogic - "shortcut".

--

Ramana Maharshi: spoke about the use of drugs by those practising yoga:

"I do admit that drugs have some beneficial effect. A certain drug can make the whole body melt and flow like a milky ocean. One man told me that when he was given chloroform before an operation he experienced a nectarous bliss and longed for that state again. The Chinese look like skeletons, but when they take opium, they feel like giants and do any amount of difficult work. These drugs, however, must be taken in limited amounts and secretly. Otherwise all will demand them. Moreover, after some time, the drug habit will become a great fetter and obstacle to jnana. Its addicts will not flinch from any crime to satisfy their cravings. So, it is best to remain desireless. Having seen the effects of all these drugs, I have decided that to be as we are is best. To strive for knowing one's real nature through self-enquiry, though it is a little difficult, is the only safe path." (10)

 
Paul Brunton (who spent time with ramana Marashi and brough his teachings to the west):

  “Young persons are easily deceived by the sham uplift which drugs may confer. It is an astral plane experience, not a Buddhic plane one, as it seems to be.” (13)

   “What the drug taker gets is imagined reality, not real reality. Consciousness assumes the experience of knowing Truth, gives him the most vivid idea that this is IT. The end-effect is not to bring him nearer to the goal, as he wrongly believes, but farther from it. Such are the tricks that mind can play on self.” (14)

   “The drug experience, however exalted it is, never really gets beyond being an astral plane copy, a pseudo-contact with a pseudo-god. It is illegitimate for modern man to break Nature’s safety barrier in this way. He may pay a penalty withhealth, sanity, or self-deception.” (15)

   “The glimpse brings him to himself, but no drug can do that. The drug brings him before a vivid mental picture which he lives; it is still only a picture - sometimes horrible like a nightmare, sometimes sublime like a mystical ecstasy. But never in these experiences does he enter his true self. Always he is looking at and living with a picture.” (16)

 Sri Nisargadatta speaks from a larger [perspective when he says:

   M: ...."No doubt, a drug that can affect your brain can also affect your mind, and give you all the strange experiences promised. But what are all the drugs compared to the drug that gave you this most unusual experience of being born and living in sorrow and fear, in search of happiness, which does not come, or does not last. You should enquire into the nature of this drug and find an antidote...Birth, life, death - they are one. Find out what has caused them. Before you were born, you were already drugged. What kind of drug was it? You may cure yourself of all diseases, but if you are still under the influence of the primordial drug, of what use are the superficial cures?

OPRAH WINFREY (HOST):Sounds like a drug trip.

ECKHART TOLLE: Well, later on, people tell me, they ask me, "Is that like acid?" Because some people take acid and they say, "Oh, we experienced that when we took acid," they told me many times. Until finally, I'll tell you in confidence, finally I tried acid just for once.

OPRAH WINFREY: You're telling me in confidence here?

ECKHART TOLLE: Yes.

OPRAH WINFREY: Okay, good.

ECKHART TOLLE: I tried it just once just to see…

OPRAH WINFREY: If it was the same thing?

ECKHART TOLLE: Yes.

OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah?

ECKHART TOLLE: It's not quite the same thing because what I experienced was much more subtle and beautiful. The acid I experienced has almost a violent thing where violently the perceptions, sense perceptions become so magnified that there was no room for thinking anymore. But I could see why people say, for some people it's a glimpse of what it means to perceive the world without this continuous interference of mental noise.

OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, but your trip without acid was better.

ECKHART TOLLE: Much better.

Papaji: (not a drug related but interesting quote)

 Q: "Do you foresee a time in the not too distant future when there will be many people on earth who are Enlightened?"
   A: "There is no future, there are no people, there is no earth, there is no one seeking Enlightenment, and no one gaining it.
   This is the final and only Truth."

Edited July 31, 2018 by blazed

[Nahm]

@Hsinav Good point man. 

[blazed]

Jiddu-Krishnamurti:

Questioner: What can we do to prevent others from taking drugs?

Krishnamurti: Do you take drugs?

Questioner: No, but I drink coffee and alcohol. Isn't that the same?

Krishnamurti: We drink coffee, we take alcohol, we smoke, and some take drugs. Why do you take them? Coffee and tea are stimulants, aren't they? I don't take them myself, but I know about them. Physiologically you may need some form of stimulant; some people do. Are alcohol and tobacco the same as taking drugs? Go on, answer it.

Questioner: Yes.

Krishnamurti: You say taking alcohol is the same as taking drugs.

(General disagreement.)

Krishnamurti: Don't take sides, please. One says, "No", somebody else says "Yes". Then where are we? I am simply asking why you take any of these things at all. Do you need a stimulant, do you need something to pep you up, to encourage you? Please answer this question. Do you need constant stimulation and entertainment, must you have tea, tobacco, drugs and all the rest of it? Why do you need them?

Questioner: To escape.

Krishnamurti: To escape, to take the easy way out. You drink a glass of wine and you are happy, it is done quickly!

Questioner: Yes.

Krishnamurti: So you need stimulants in various forms. Are you being stimulated now by the speaker? Questioner: Yes. (Laughter).

Krishnamurti: Please pay a little attention. You say "No" and this gentleman says "Yes". Please investigate. Are you being stimulated at this moment? If you are, then the speaker is just as good as a drug. Then you depend on the speaker as you are dependent on tea, coffee, alcohol or drugs, whatever it is. I am asking why you depend, not whether it is right or wrong, whether you should or should not. Why do you depend on any of these stimulants?

Questioner: We can see what action it has on us, but we don't need to be dependent on it.

Krishnamurti: But you are dependent! When the effect wears off you need more stimulants, which means you are dependent. I may take LSD one morning and get a kick out of it, and when it lets me down I need some more; the day after tomorrow I am dependent on it. Now I am asking why the human mind depends - why does it depend on sex, on drugs, on alcohol, on any form of outward stimulation? This is psychological, isn't it? There is a physiological need for tea and coffee because we eat wrongly, we live wrongly, because we overindulge and so on. But why do we want to be stimulated psychologically? Is it because we are so poor in ourselves? Is it because we have not the brain, not the capacity to be something entirely different, that we depend on stimulants?

Questioner: Doesn't alcohol destroy the brain as well as drugs?

Krishnamurti: Alcohol may do it gradually, it may take a number of years, but drugs are very dangerous because they affect future generations, your children. So if you say, "I don't care what happens to my grandson, I am going to take drugs", then that is the end of the argument. But I am asking: what happens to your mind when you depend on anything, whatever it is, whether it's tea, coffee, sex, drugs or nationalism?

Questioner: I lose my freedom.

Krishnamurti: You say these things, but you don't live it, do you? When you depend on anything it destroys freedom, doesn't it? It makes you a slave - to alcohol, for instance: you must have your drink, your dry Martini or whatever it is. So gradually your mind becomes dull through dependency. It was established a long time ago in India, that any man who is really religious will never touch any of these things. But you don't care; you say, "I need stimulation".

I once met a man who took LSD and he said that when he went to a museum after taking it, he could see all the colours more brightly, everything stood out more vividly, more sharply, there was great beauty. He may see the lovely light of a sunset more brilliantly, but his mind is gradually being destroyed and after a year or two he becomes just a useless entity. If you think it is worth it, that's up to you. But if you don't, then have nothing whatever to do with it.

Edited August 1, 2018 by blazed