Gurus/Mystics/Teachers opinion on psychedelic use list.

[pluto]

 

[blazed]

10 minutes ago, Feel Good said:

Relax  

Just so you know I'm not against psychedelics or saying it should be illegal, I think everyone should be free to make their own choice.

And I wasn't cherry picking to self confirm my bias I literally just took all the famous gurus I know and took their opinions on it,  hence why I asked if ppl can add to the list of spiritual leaders that recommend it or don't.

Not sure why some of you so butt hurt that you the want the topic closed or that I should stop discussing about such things.

You guys need to chill.

[Nahm]

Psychedelics reveal there are no gurus. Nothing to fear, nothing to doubt, no one to blame- there is only you. Teachers against taking them, are you. Teachers for taking them, are you. The cosmic joke. 

[d0ornokey]

all people are subject to dogma

leo, sadhguru, osho etc. 

what's important is that you're fighting for the truth of the matter - because really that's all that matters

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by d0ornokey

[cirkussmile]

Drugs is a tool. But if you’re using psychedelics over and over again and open the door to heaven over and over again you are clearly missing something. 

The natural state is beyond any psychedelic experience. Freedom can not come as long as you haven’t transcended psychedelics. 

If you can’t understand who you are now without psychedelics you will never be liberated. Eventually you have to let go of it.

Meditation. Do it. Don’t let the amazing talk about psychedelics fool you! Don’t fall in the trap! 

[Joseph Maynor]

I wonder what Adyashanti thinks about using psychedelics on the Enlightenment Path.

[Joseph Maynor]

I think Eckhart Tolle would benefit from doing psychedelics like LSD, Mushrooms, or DMT.  Just a sense I get from his vibe.  There's a stiffness in there.  He kind of clings to his little nut of theory.  That's why I don't put him at the level of Adyashanti or Mooji.  For me psychedelics really evened me out and got me outta my nut of theory when it comes to Enlightenment.  For others psychedelics produce different reactions.  For me, psychedelics got me outta theory and into BE-ing when it comes to Enlightenment.  Psychedelics helped me transcend the Paradigm of Paradigms.  If you're had enough of the right kinds of psychedelic experiences, you probably know what I'm talking about.  So, I can't discount psychedelics in good faith because they helped me over that final obstacle to Enlightenment about six months ago, which was transcending 'need to know BE-ing' and just BE-ing in the moment without pre-judgments or pre-expectations.  The last time I did LSD about 4 months ago now really drove that point home to me -- it showed it to me

Edited July 30, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Salvijus]

Mantak Chia tried = ?, Recommendation = no

 

 

Vippassana teachers tried= yes, recommendation = no

This one I personaly asked.

 

What about Peter Ralston ? No information but probably same as every master 

[Salvijus]

A little taste of nythyananda way of looking at psychedelics

 

[Salvijus]

What conclusion I personaly came to is that if I talk long enough I can make it sound both ways that psychedelics are bad or good.

Personaly I find psychedelics desructive and dulling the sistem without any permenant benefits. Also through yoga and kriya I descoverd that human sistem is so complex that I have no hope of understanding this in my lifetime and to simply put a psychedelic bomb inside without any awereness and understanding what that will do to your evergy sistem and body and mind is just the most irresponsible, desperate for experience action.

I think if sadhguru ever conducted a program with psychedelics it would look like this.

-3months of preperation

-150safety rules, like, what to wear, what to eat, what not to eat.

-highly consecrated, commited atmosphere.

-many precautions.

-every move, every second would be controled and under guidence in every step of the trip.

But now people with few weeks months or years of meditation experience just popping random drugs this way and that way. It's just.... Not smart i will say.

This kind of attitude "try it for your self and see" is not gonna cut it. You're playing with bomb here. One bad move and it can finish your life or destroy many spiritual possibilities at the very least .

Edited July 30, 2018 by Salvijus

[Esoteric]

@blazed Have you tried psychedelics? You say you are not here to demonize psychedelics, but by your responses you clearly have an agenda with this thread, are you willing to admit that?

Back in the day Muhammed married a child because it was the cultural norm. All the enlightened masters 1000+ years ago were running on beliefs. Just like all enlightened gurus today are running on beliefs to some extent. Just because you get realized doesn't mean you act as a divine God with no cultural baggage. We know very little about enlightenment still and maybe we will look back at this period as primitive because we were still scared by psychedelics since there is a lot of baggage attached to it still.

 

You think Muhammed and Jesus thought gay people could "become divine"? My guess would be not. Try to be open. Maybe psychedelics will have a role in our awakening, maybe they won't.

And yeah I love psychedelics so I am biased here. Wouldn't be on the path if it wasn't for them and they have helped my spiritual growth, I dare say, enormously. What was it about your use of them that you didn't like them? Share your experiences so we can have a good discussion about it. Peace.

 

“LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have NOT taken it.” - Timothy Leary

Edited July 30, 2018 by Esoteric

[Laymen]

8 hours ago, blazed said:

I know of martin ball, seen his videos, I just dont consider him in the same league as the others, if we going by small individual western scientist/doctors we can easily get thousands of recommendations for drugs, looking for more big names in the spiritual practices.

Also if that statement below is true, its a bad case for psychedelics.

"By far the most surreal moment of the two days that I attended, was watching Martin, an adamant non-duelist and religious studies professor, ranting and pointing at his conference attendees for a few minutes while in the throes of a full-blown tantrum, repeatedly screaming such gems as, "fuck you" and, "go fuck yourself!" Martin's repeated and unfounded slandering of other authors and researchers in the field such as James Oroc and Terence McKenna, while later defending violent malpractice and non-consensual administration of psychedelics, was as shocking as it was disheartening."

http://psillyrabbits.com/podcastblog-archives-1/2018/5/27/exploring-psychedelics-2018-reviewing-zealotry-and-apologetics-within-the-field-of-psychedelics-2lyt5

Osho - Can you link me some videos / articles of osho recommending use of drugs because everything I find he is not recommending the use of them.

 

Trust me, he did recommend trying LSD. I read it. I'm too lazy to find it again. But he said you should taste LSD to be encourage to pursue enlightenment. After you have the encouragement you should meditate and experience something LSD cannot release. However, he also said it's dangerous to use drugs to attain enlightenment. He didn't say it's not possible. 

 

[molosku]

@Leo Gura

 

 

[Rinne]

@pluto What program do you use to record videos? Like the one you just did. 

[moon777light]

for people asking about a younger teacher:

Lisa Cairns (is 35 or something): tried psychedelics: yes (lsd), Recommends?: NO (said she damaged her brain and doing nonduality work would be easier if she hadnt)

BUT there are many spiritual gurus who do recommend. Blazed wrote a list of people who dont agree. But you still need to consider the ones that do

Teal Swan: tried psychedelics: ?? (i think so?) Recommends: YES, HIGHLY

Ralph Smart (IDK hes seems more of a pep talk person rather than an actual "guru"): tried?: yes recommends?: YES

if anyone knows any other who recommends, i'd add them here. I think the reason why all of the most famous gurus dont is because they know the huge influence they have and know a lot of people who watch them might have unstable minds (depression/psyhotic episodes) and psychedelics would damage further. Maybe theyre against it because psychedelics would pull the person away from their teachings (since alot of them are business men, no? maybe people who misuse them would blame them (the guru) and then the media would make the guru look really bad and theyre trying to avoid that or trying to avoid getting sued. we have to look at every angle here. 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2018 by moon777light

[moon777light]

13 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

But I can say it because I am against drugs. But that does not mean they cannot be used. They can be used as a means, they are not the end.

 

13 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

But in certain moments under LSD he is very close to awakening. Under a right guide he can be introduced to the technique of meditation. He can be given what is called post-hypnotic suggestions for which he is absolutely vulnerable. He can be told that, “This meditation, you will be able to do it when you are out of LSD experience.” You can go on repeating it that, “You are going to succeed in it.” It is a simple method and there is no problem in not succeeding in it. Just one or two sessions with a guide will be enough. The man can be moved towards meditation. And once he moves towards meditation, drugs have no importance at all.

gotta agree with this. I have never had any drug experience, (i do wish to try it once or twice) but i dont think people should be taking them so often. maybe annually or bianually. I do think everyone should at least try a psychedelic to get a glimpse of what non duality is about but we cant confuse this with actual non duality. SO far what ive learned from here is that they are the same thing the same experience, but how do we know if they are the same? what if the drug tricks us into thinking we are having a non dual experience when its an illusion.  I love what leo does on this channel, but most of these teachers blazed mentioned have over 30 years of experience, some over 40 years. Leo has a couple of years. Maybe Leo hasnt gotten yet to the stage where he realized that using so much psychedelics isnt that "good" for awakening. idk im quite confused on this subject now. 

[Prabhaker]

@blazed  In tantra tradition drugs can be used.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

Question – How is it that great masters like Chogyam Trungpa get so drunk on occasional festivities that they have to be carried home? Can the use of alcohol for enjoyment disturb a certain awareness of seekers?

Osho - Who told you that this man is a Master? He belongs to a tradition in which many Masters have existed, but he carries just the dead load. And this is the trouble because in the tradition to which he belongs there have been men like Marpa, Milarepa, Naropa, Tilopa — great siddhas — and they all used to drink, now this is delicate, but they never got drunk. They used to drink, but they never got drunk.
That is one of the ways of tantra, a method: one has to go on increasing the amount of alcohol and getting attuned to it, but remaining conscious. Hmm?… first you take just one teaspoonful. you remain conscious; then two; then three; then you go on. Then you drink the whole bottle. But now you are so attuned your consciousness is not disturbed; then alcohol won’t do. Then you move to more dangerous drugs.
There came a time in the tradition of tantra when snakes, poisonous snakes, were used because a man became so attuned to all types of drugs. Then the last test was the snake cobra. Then the cobra was forced to bite the man on the tongue — then too he remained conscious.
This was a secret test and a growth: now you have achieved to such crystallization of consciousness that the whole body is filled with alcohol but it doesn’t affect you. This was a point in tantra to go beyond the body; this is going beyond the body — for tantra.
This man comes from that tradition, so he has the permission from the tradition to drink, but if he gets drunk then he has missed the whole point; he not a Master; he is not aware. But in America everything is possible now. Not knowing the old tradition. this man can say to people, “Even our own Masters have been drinking.” In tantra all those things that are ordinarily prohibited are allowed. A tantric is allowed to eat meat — ordinarily it is prohibited; he is allowed to drink ordinarily it is prohibited; he is allowed to have sex — ordinarily for a seeker it is prohibited. Everything that is prohibited ordinarily, is allowed in tantra, but allowed with such conditions that if you forget the conditions you forget the whole thing.
One should go in sex, but there should be no ejaculation. If ejaculation happens, then it is ordinary sex; then it is not tantra. If you make love and no ejaculation happens, for hours you are together with the woman and no ejaculation happens, this is tantra. This is an attainment. Drinking is allowed, but getting drunk is not allowed. If you get drunk you are an ordinary drunkard — no need to bring tantra in.
Meat is allowed, but you have to eat meat — even sometimes human meat, human flesh, from dead bodies — but you should remain indifferent. You should remain unperturbed — not even a flicker in your consciousness that “something wrong….”

Tantra says that every bondage has to be transcended, and the last bondage is morality — that too has to be transcended. Unless you transcend morality you have not transcended the world. So in a country like India where vegetarianism has gone to the very deep core of Indian consciousness, meat-eating was allowed, but it was not allowed in the way that meat-eaters eat. A man has to prepare his whole life for it. He was to be a vegetarian; as a seeker he was to be a vegetarian.
Years will pass — ten years, twelve years he has remained a vegetarian, he has not made love to any woman, he has not drunk anything alcoholic, and he has not taken any other drugs. Then after twelve years, fifteen years, even twenty years, the Master will allow him, now, to move into sex, but to move with a woman with such respect that the woman is almost a goddess; it is not carnal. And the man who is moving with the woman has to worship her, touch her feet. And if even a slight sexual desire arises he is disqualified; then he is not ready for it.
It was a great preparation and a great test — greatest that has ever been created for man. With no desire, with no lust, he has to feel towards the woman as if she is his mother. If the Master says, and sees, that he is right — now he is like a child entering the woman, not like a man, and like a child he remains inside the woman with no sexuality arising: his breathing is not affected his body energy is not affected; for hours he remains together with the woman, there is no ejaculation; a deep silence pervades — it is a deep meditation.
For twenty years remaining a vegetarian and then suddenly you are offered meat to eat: your whole being will feel repulsed. Hmm?… if you feel repulsion then tantra says, “You are rejected. Now go beyond it. Now whatsoever is offered, accept it in deep gratitude.” You must know if you have remained a vegetarian even for one year and suddenly meat is offered, you will start feeling nausea, vomiting. If that comes that means the man is still living in the thoughts — because it is only a thought that this is meat and this is vegetable. Vegetable is also meat, because it comes from the body of the tree; and meat is also vegetable, because it comes from the tree of a man’s body or an animal’s body. This is the transcendence of morality.
And then he is prepared to drink strong drugs. If he has really become alert then whatsoever is given will change the chemistry of the body but not his consciousness; his consciousness will remain floating on the chemistry of the body. Gurdjieff used to drink as much as you can imagine — but was never unconscious, never drunk. He was a tantric Master. If you want to look in the West towards somebody, then he is George Gurdjieff, not Tibetan refugees.

[Jack River]

I have played the psychedelic game myself. What I got was some crazy experiences with minimal freeing effects to follow. None of those experiences matched a moment of complete silence while sitting on my board out in the pacific. Its like everything I knew including myself had totally vanished. Felt as if I was a new being looking at a new world for the first time. This didn’t seem like an experience like the billion before. It seemed quite different. This happened a month ago, and ever since there has been this extreme sense of grooving every moment. I am much more conscious around people and surfing has greatly improved as well. Personally I don’t see my psychedelic use as beneficial, when it comes to this “silence”. I kinda feel a little dumber actually. But that may be just the way I am ..But that is just the way I see it. I am not against them at all, just don’t think they come close to what I went through in the water that day, and the way I am now. I wouldn’t say they are needed at all. I think this silence comes about in a totally difference way. So what I would say is we don’t need psychedelics, but if we want to take them don’t let anyone else’s opinion stop you.  I never asked anyone anything. You shouldn’t have to ask permission either. 

[cirkussmile]

11 hours ago, Outer said:

Meditation is for egos.

Are you out of your mind? No, you’re not. You are completely in your mind.

Say that to adyashanti or any other master that meditation is for egos. Do it and see their response. 

[cirkussmile]

7 minutes ago, Outer said:

Well isn't an unenlightened person an ego? Do you think enlightened people meditate? If so why?

Of course they meditate. Everything is meditation. And even if they don’t have a meditation schedule, they definitely sit down in silence most of the time. Sitting and resting in being. I’m sure many of them meditate “strictly” as well.

Meditation helps people to meditate all the time which becomes liberation.