Why does the mind exist? Why is it limited?

[KMB4222]

I’ve been reading a book about non-duality, and the author mentions how it is necessary to quiet the mind because it gets in the way, so to speak. The author mentions that the mind can never get you to your true nature, and that if you sense your true nature, you are actually just thinking about it using the mind, because the mind is only capable of creating thoughts about things, as opposed to directly experiencing them.

 

So this leads me to wonder:

 

If we are all one infinite consciousness/awareness, why would infinite consciousness even create a limited thing such as the mind? Why would consciousness do anything or create anything at all?

Why not just let us in on what we are right from the start?

 

Thank you.

[Natasha]

@KMB4222

Why does the mind exist? - The Absolute to become self-aware and experience itself through form.

Why is it limited? - Why not? Because it can.

[kieranperez]

Derive truth for yourself. An answer you read on here means nothing.

example: there is no self

im guessing you didn’t become a Buddha from reading that. 

[Nahm]

@KMB4222 It’s your own veiling. You did it. 

[Telepresent]

@KMB4222 I'm going to suggest that this question is a diversion from the quest. If you reach the truth, then presumably you will understand. Probably at this stage you wouldn't understand anyway.

Asking "why" right now (as far as I can see) can only be a distraction. It is, reason or no reason. Work with that. 

[Leo Gura]

Infinity contains all finities. So here you are.

Infinity cannot stop itself. It creates every possible thing, to infinity. Like an infinite runaway chain reaction.

[Timotheus]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Infinity contains all finities. So here you are.

Infinity cannot stop itself. It creates every possible thing, to infinity. Like an infinite runaway chain reaction.

How does the concept of cosmic or god's intelligence fit into this? This seems to be rather random.

[Leo Gura]

@Timotheus The entire universe is infinitely intelligent. Look, it's reading this sentence right now and understanding it!

But that's just the tip of the iceberg of how smart the universe is. It was smart enough to create itself. Think about that for a moment.

Then notice, you are the universe thinking about how it created itself!

It really helps to reframe your entire metaphysics of what reality is. Rather than thinking of reality as a dumb box of bouncing balls, think of it as an infinitely intelligent disembodied mind. Once you make that reframe, it's no longer puzzling that the universe should be intelligent. Intelligence is just fundamentally what minds do.

The universe was not born as dumb matter. It was born fully intelligent. Because that's what reality is! There is no option for reality to dumb, other than by acting stupid through application of infinite intelligence to trick itself.

Rather than thinking of the universe as a thing which starts out at 0%, think of it as a thing which starts out at 100% and dumbs itself down. So it's not that intelligent apes evolved, but rather than infinite intelligence was dumbed down to create apes, ants, humans, etc.

Imagine that God is a really good method actor playing an ape. That's you! The method actor is so good he can dumb himself down to any level below infinity, precisely because he is infinitely good.

Another way to think of it this: try to imagine why the universe wouldn't be infinitely intelligent. And then realize, there's nothing that would stop it. So it became infinitely intelligent. And here we are. Everything exists because there is no one to enforce any rules upon reality. So reality overflows into an infinite number of directions and dimensions.

When you realize that dumbness is equally as impossible as infinite intelligence, you'll understand why infinite intelligence exists.

The question you should really be asking yourself is: Why did I ever assume the universe was dumb?

Your mind might protest: "But how was intelligence created?"

To which you should tell it: "But how was dumbness created?"

[Joseph Maynor]

What you want is awareness, not control.  Just be aware when you meditate, don't try to control anything.  your problem is not lack of control, it's lack of awareness.  Do Do Nothing Meditation for 1 hour each day.

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Timotheus]

@Leo Gura Thanks. I guess I get some of the points or pointers.

Given that I would still run into this problem: If it is infinitely intelligent, then why is god convinced that the creation of suffering would be a smart move? One argument could be, because of its infinite freedom, but then again it does not seem to be free enough to stop itself from evolving into all the "bad" directions and dimensions, since it is infinite. 

It could still be that it's work in progress, but this would imply it's not perfect and imo not infinitely intelligent, just intelligent.

Can one become conscious of infinite intelligence, eradicating all doubts, and become as firmly "convinced" as about the knowing of "I am"? Through contemplation?

Edited August 2, 2018 by Timotheus

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Timotheus said:

but then again it does not seem to be free enough to stop itself from evolving into all the "bad" directions and dimensions, since it is infinite.

Since it is infinite, there are no bad directions. All directions are equally great to it.

I keep telling you guys that "bad" is a projection for your ego. Sit down and contemplate what "bad" really means when you say that word. It is an egoic word.

Things only appear bad to you because you have a horse in the race. You are biased. But God has no biases because it has bet on every horse in the universe. But you bet on only one horse.

If you bet on every horse in the universe, would you care which one wins?

P.S. If it was not free to evolve in all the "bad" directions, it would not be truly free.

[robdl]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Things only appear bad to you because you have a horse in the race. You are biased.

The "bias" is the "you"; the "you" is the "bias."  They are one.  That may be what you meant, but the limitations of language divides them - separating "you" and "bias."  Bias isn't possessed by "you";  bias (i.e. memory/conditioning) is the "you."

Or to put it another way: things are observed to be negative (or positive) in thought because observation is taking place through the lens of the "you" --- the (conditioned, biased) accumulated experience/memory/knowledge/desire.     This (biased) lens directs/influences/corrupts the observation --- self-perpetuating thought-self in the process.

Edited August 2, 2018 by robdl

[Arkandeus]

who knows why things are as they are?

what is knowing? does it hold meaning to know?

all I do is follow my good feelings, those feelings that resonate, those feelings that feel good

Edited August 2, 2018 by Arkandeus

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, robdl said:

The "bias" is the "you"; the "you" is the "bias."  They are one.  That may be what you meant, but the limitations of language divides them - separating "you" and "bias."  Bias isn't possessed by "you";  bias (i.e. memory/conditioning) is the "you."

That is correct. The bias runs very deep. It is existential.

But not so deep it cannot be undone.

Our life's work is undoing this knot of self-bias.

[robdl]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is correct. The bias runs very deep. It is existential.

But not so deep it cannot be undone.

Indeed.  The movement of this biased thought-self loop can be seen holistically for what it is.   Seeing that is free from and not being skewed by the "me", as that is skewed seeing from inside the loop; being caught in it.

Edited August 2, 2018 by robdl

[robdl]

1 hour ago, Arkandeus said:

who knows why things are as they are?

what is knowing? does it hold meaning to know?

all I do is follow my good feelings, those feelings that resonate, those feelings that feel good

Thought is the known/knowledge, and therefore that is thought's sole interest.  Thought seeks security in the known, which is to say thought seeks security in its own movement. 

Knowledge perpetuates thought/the thinker.

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, robdl said:

Knowledge perpetuates thought/the thinker.

Quite so...

As seeking of experiences, and the clinging-attachment to past experience, perpetuates thought-the experiencer. 

[Nahm]

@KMB4222 You were ‘let in right from the start’, you’ve never had to believe anything anyone has said.  

@Timotheus Imagine right now you’re applauding at the end of a play. All the actors taking their bow. 

[robdl]

11 minutes ago, Artaemis said:

Wow. Well said. This helped my understanding greatly. Thank you. 

Cool

[Hamilcar]

On 29/07/2018 at 7:02 PM, KMB4222 said:

I’ve been reading a book about non-duality, and the author mentions how it is necessary to quiet the mind because it gets in the way, so to speak. The author mentions that the mind can never get you to your true nature, and that if you sense your true nature, you are actually just thinking about it using the mind, because the mind is only capable of creating thoughts about things, as opposed to directly experiencing them.

 

So this leads me to wonder:

 

If we are all one infinite consciousness/awareness, why would infinite consciousness even create a limited thing such as the mind? Why would consciousness do anything or create anything at all?

Why not just let us in on what we are right from the start?

 

Thank you.

I don't know man , am sorry alright ?
it's shit , I messed up , I know.