Post Your Disagreements With Leo Here

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@FocusOnTruthThis is extreme thinking.  All beliefs are not illusions.  I believe that I am tapping on a keyboard right now, and that my dog is in the next room.  Beliefs are fine.  The problem is when you start believing that all beliefs are illusions then you run into real trouble.

I know it is extreme, and I'm willing to accept that I'm incorrect. If I accepted it as an unquestionable truth, then I'd be susceptible to endless folly. However, I'm intrigued and willing to suspend judgement while I explore this on my own. When I say beliefs are illusions, I am not saying they are useless (that is a dangerous trap in my view, yet many who follow the spiritual path abide by it). I am only saying beliefs are not absolute truth, which has a fair basis, I think. The spiritual path claims to have direct access to truth, which sounds far-fetched to me, but I am willing to humor the assertion while I seek.

I don't have any problems with beliefs. I just think they are illusory; that doesn't mean I think they aren't necessary.

This thread is premised on the idea that thoughts and beliefs are still useful, despite being illusory and reconciles the spiritual path with rationality. It is the manner in which I think is most useful for adapting our own views to Leo's, bridging rationality and post-rationality. Some people have expressed sentiment against rational thinking at all, treating it as a hindrance to enlightenment. Others have shown skepticism toward enlightenment and champion logic and reason. I am playing around with a joint approach. Maybe it's foolish, maybe not.

 

[abrakamowse]

10 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@abrakamowse Its happened to me loads.  

I even spent two weeks in a non dual state once.

Anybody can have these states.  They permeate the personality and upgrade it.  They can even downgrade it if you try to cling to it.

Was it real though?  I dont know.  I dont even know if it was enlightenment experiences.  It could have just been the books I was reading made me feel better and I didnt contract as much (which makes my self selse feel even more defined)

Maybe it was lack of chronic indigestion (which I suffer from a lot)

 

 

Cool! Not the lack of chronic indigestion, the experiences seem cool hehehe...

The ultimate truth is that we know nothing.
Lol

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@abrakamowse Its happened to me loads.  

I even spent two weeks in a non dual state once.

Anybody can have these states.  They permeate the personality and upgrade it.  They can even downgrade it if you try to cling to it.

Was it real though?  I dont know.  I dont even know if it was enlightenment experiences.  It could have just been the books I was reading made me feel better and I didnt contract as much (which makes my self selse feel even more defined)

Maybe it was lack of chronic indigestion (which I suffer from a lot)

 

 

I think I know what you mean here. I've also had issue with enlightened people supposedly knowing absolute truth. I am doing enlightenment work to experience myself, but it strikes me as dangerous that they supposedly believe that they transcend all beliefs and perspectives and have direct access to the Truth. However, even if it's not the case the emotional and mental health benefits sound quite appealing to me, so I am willing to give it a shot.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

The ultimate truth is that we know nothing.
Lol

 

But we cant say thats the truth.  Because sometimes our projections are accurate.

So its more helpful to say there is no absolute truth.

[abrakamowse]

@FocusOnTruth  @Nomad   I must say that thinking that we are nothing (I mean our identity and ego) had helped  me to overcome a lot of fears.

So I think that the point is not believe that you are your beliefs and be able to change to grow and feel better.
 

[abrakamowse]

1 minute ago, Nomad said:

 

But we cant say thats the truth.  Because sometimes our projections are accurate.

So its more helpful to say there is no absolute truth.

What if God is the only absolute truth? But we can't understand him?. That's what I think it happens, but I am always having my mind open to any possibility. I think... 
 

[Guest]

Just now, abrakamowse said:

@FocusOnTruth  @Nomad   I must say that thinking that we are nothing (I mean our identity and ego) had helped  me to overcome a lot of fears.

So I think that the point is not believe that you are your beliefs and be able to change to grow and feel better.
 

Thinking you are nothing?

What you're doing there is just denying. I think anyway.

Not sure if that really works, because all anybody would have to do is walk around saying "I'm nothing".

Which I have done by the way.  Its pretty weird

[Guest]

Just now, abrakamowse said:

What if God is the only absolute truth? But we can't understand him?. That's what I think it happens, but I am always having my mind open to any possibility. I think... 
 

 God?

This is the 500BC mindset ive been "banging on" about lately.

God is a belief. Absolute truth is a belief.

Why people are so hung up on finding God is beyond me.  

There is no absolute truth.  I think this is the more helpful way to look at it, because we know we dont know anything for sure, but there ARE times when our projections are accurate.

If you say there IS and absolute, then you rule out the possibility of being right sometimes.

If you say there is no absolute truth, then you allow yourself to be right sometimes

[abrakamowse]

@Nomad  Do you think that you are your collection of memories, experiences, opinions of others that you assimilate as yours, etc? ... You said you had an experience of no identity, what are you when you don't know your identity? 

You are an awareness or a consciousness right?... that's what we are. When I say we are nothing, it means our ego, what we collect from our experiences and contact with other people, etc.

[abrakamowse]

12 minutes ago, Nomad said:

 God?

This is the 500BC mindset ive been "banging on" about lately.

God is a belief. Absolute truth is a belief.

Why people are so hung up on finding God is beyond me.  

There is no absolute truth.  I think this is the more helpful way to look at it, because we know we dont know anything for sure, but there ARE times when our projections are accurate.

If you say there IS and absolute, then you rule out the possibility of being right sometimes.

If you say there is no absolute truth, then you allow yourself to be right sometimes

How do you like to call it? Energy? Universe? Nature? the law of attraction?? The Absolute? The no absolute truth???...

But you are saying that "there are times when our projections are accurate? "

They are accurate compared with what? With the absolute truth?  I call absolute thruth God, but that doesn't mean that my idea of  God is from 500 BC, it's actually a pretty modern and "Matrix like" idea of God. But I call it God anyway.

Edited March 23, 2016 by abrakamowse

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

How do you like to call it? Energy? Universe? Nature? the law of attraction?? The Absolute? The no absolute truth???...

Not sure why "it" has to be called anything.

Why the need to have a God or some higher thing.

We're getting into Teal Swan territory here I fear

And no. I am not an awareness or consciousness, because that isnt always there in the same form.  There are as many of these as there are experiences.

[abrakamowse]

@Nomad  I edited my post and I added something more. I like your way of thinking. Maybe I change again, cause I am nothing

LoL

[abrakamowse]

5 minutes ago, Nomad said:

We're getting into Teal Swan territory here I fear

Teal Swan is awesome, cause she's pretty 

[Guest]

@abrakamowse Of course your idea is not of a man in the sky etc.  A deity in 2nd person, a mono-theistic being or poly-theistic beings.

What I mean is what makes you want to take one idea of God and exchange it with another?

Now all you have done is transfered your need for a God onto consciousness.

The problem with that it is, I think anyway, 

Is that you still cling dependently to a higher order that you.  It creates a safety net, stops you from going insane in a meaningless universe.

It also can stop us from growing up and just accepting that were all essentially screwed up.

The other thing is death, if youre source then you are never going to die, which is why enlightenment is so appealing to the childs mind.

[abrakamowse]

@Nomad  I ask you because I am always looking for other opinions. Ok... maybe you are right.

But my experience is that there's really a higher self, a part of us who is connected with something bigger than us. That connection with the universe, with everything. That's is everything but is you too... that is my concept of God. God is the "I AM", so basically we are Gods.

I know it sounds contradictory, because it is. It's a paradox, I don't know.

[Natasha]

41 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Maybe it was lack of chronic indigestion (which I suffer from a lot)

 

 

Fresh grapefruit juice, ginger, and raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar in water are great for that. 

[Anicko]

1 hour ago, Emerald Wilkins said:

It's not necessarily a disagreement exactly. But there are some parts that don't resonate with me as much at this point in my life, but used to and may again. For example, Leo's admiration of and slight leanings toward asceticism and hard core discipline doesn't resonate with me as it would have when I was a teenager. I find a lot of it helpful, but I resonate more now with cultivating self-love and using moderate amounts of well-rounded self-discipline. That said, it still helps.

This is an excellent point. I could choose to sit and think about all the ways I disagree with someone, but that does not move me forward. And I feel strongly that that is actually true for every person at their core. That's the "inner work" part, it is completely within oneself. 

I do understand why someone would think debating agreements/disagreements would help, but it's an ego trap. 

There are plenty of things Leo has said that I know are wrong, but that's because I'm in a different place than he is right now, and truly I can witness his own growth in his videos, and it is beautiful. 

I can hear him say something that I disagree with or know to be false without being hurt by it because no one else but me can get me me where I need to be. I'll take the help wherever I can, but I won't be blind anymore. 

But see, even as I am writing this, I am realizing what it means to the people who participate in the debate and I feel my perspective shifting. I want to tell everyone "No, you're doing it wrong, go this way",  but that is my own personal trap, because we must each make our own path. 

I say it far too often anymore, but it is impossible to explain precisely what I mean. You must see and feel it for yourself. I feel grateful that Leo, and others, are sharing their experiences, and I am willing to understand, overlook,  and, most importantly, forgive mistakes that are made in the process. 

[Guest]

@abrakamowse I have no idea what you are talking about.  This is very abstract, and I have never sensed that. I've had moments of unconditional love.  How I interpret that as I came out of it is in my belief system now.   

[Anicko]

36 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@FocusOnTruth  @Nomad   I must say that thinking that we are nothing (I mean our identity and ego) had helped  me to overcome a lot of fears.

So I think that the point is not believe that you are your beliefs and be able to change to grow and feel better.
 

In my always humble opinion, you have a very good, important point here. You have to tinker and try if you want to discover. 

Sometimes, for example, I'll consider solipsism. All the what ifs that come with it are full of lessons, if one keeps an open mind. 

Do I think it's truth? No. But what do I actually know? 

It's fun to consider all sorts of things, as long as you don't get lost in beliefs. 

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Anicko said:

This is an excellent point. I could choose to sit and think about all the ways I disagree with someone, but that does not move me forward. And I feel strongly that that is actually true for every person at their core. That's the "inner work" part, it is completely within oneself. 

I do understand why someone would think debating agreements/disagreements would help, but it's an ego trap. 

There are plenty of things Leo has said that I know are wrong, but that's because I'm in a different place than he is right now, and truly I can witness his own growth in his videos, and it is beautiful. 

I can hear him say something that I disagree with or know to be false without being hurt by it because no one else but me can get me me where I need to be. I'll take the help wherever I can, but I won't be blind anymore. 

But see, even as I am writing this, I am realizing what it means to the people who participate in the debate and I feel my perspective shifting. I want to tell everyone "No, you're doing it wrong, go this way",  but that is my own personal trap, because we must each make our own path. 

I say it far too often anymore, but it is impossible to explain precisely what I mean. You must see and feel it for yourself. I feel grateful that Leo, and others, are sharing their experiences, and I am willing to understand, overlook,  and, most importantly, forgive mistakes that are made in the process. 

I think that's a very healthy way to look at things. Its not so much a matter of someone's views being absolutely right or absolutely wrong but more so about what resonates with someone at their particular phase in the journey. As we move through different levels of consciousness teachers will come and go. A teacher who was helpful at one point may become unhelpful. A teacher who isn't helpful now may become helpful. It's a little bittersweet to go out of resonance with a teacher because of conscious expansion, but it is a good sign. It's like a shedding process.