Post Your Disagreements With Leo Here

[Guest]

@Truth I see, and I agree with you. However, just because they can't be based on a truly solid foundation, doesn't , to me, mean to practice no discretion. The map may not be the territory,but I think there are still better ways to map than others, as fictitious as they all might be.

[Truth]

14 minutes ago, FocusOnTruth said:

@Truth I see, and I agree with you. However, just because they can't be based on a truly solid foundation, doesn't , to me, mean to practice no discretion. The map may not be the territory,but I think there are still better ways to map than others, as fictitious as they all might be.

That's a good point I didn't look at it like that. Even though the principles and higher consciousness values look and seem pretty solid, there's always better mapping that can be done.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Truth

[charlie2dogs]

6 hours ago, FocusOnTruth said:

@adramaay  I agree. Same sentiment as what I was trying to get at. Perhaps judge is an offputting word. I'm just advocating that we try to think for our selves and really understand instead of passively accepting and falling into group think.

the world sure has gotten in a mess with people thinking for themselves hasn't it?  Do you reckon their thinking process has anything to do with the mess that is being created?  I do understand that about three tenths of one percent in any given generation awaken to the reality of self realization.

[charlie2dogs]

On 3/20/2016 at 3:16 PM, FocusOnTruth said:

In interest of not becoming too complacent with what you hear from actualized.org, I want to create a thread with a sole purpose of accumulating disagreements with Leo. I think it is easy to suspend judgement to a very dangerous degree when you agree and like someone and are regularly exposed to his/her ideas.

 

To fight this complacency, feel free to post here. Also, keep in mind your unique perspective may make up for his blind spots and end up improving future content. Nobody is always right and everyone has one's own unique perspective. Let's work together to achieve a greater collective level of consciousness and build a better mental model.

In interest of not becoming too complacent with what you hear from actualized.org,  i find this amusing, if you are becoming complacent listening to Leo, you are not understanding his messages at all. Wake up, if you can.

[Anicko]

Leo said something in one of his videos (the shocking truth about enlightenment, maybe?) that you may notice contradictions and that especially older videos just don't jive with newer ones. 

He's on a personal journey, and he's trying to help others find their own paths. This stuff is not easy to explain, especially to someone who's not in the right place at the time they watch a video. He can't just tell you what to do or think, and it seems like that's the underlying expectation for a post like this. 

It doesn't mean he should get rid of material just because it's not right to you. Any time you think anyone else "should" do anything, you are supposed to wake up to your judgements and be rid of them. That's the biggest key to inner work. Let Leo be a mirror for you. He's not supposed to be your mind. 

[abrakamowse]

I don't disagree, but my ego does... what can I do?

[Mary]

@FocusOnTruth Thanks a lot. I'll look. 

At this point in my life, I'm working on success with my studies, career and my psychology. I'd rather have a healthy psychology than be enlightened but still have a crap psychology. It's the choice I made for now. But maybe it'll change in the future.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Mary

[Guest]

7 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

In interest of not becoming too complacent with what you hear from actualized.org,  i find this amusing, if you are becoming complacent listening to Leo, you are not understanding his messages at all. Wake up, if you can.

That is not what I am trying to say. I know Leo doesn't advocate for becoming complacent. I just anticipate that a good chunk of us will be complacent anyway and not think for ourselves. This thread is just to create another venue of collaboratively becoming more engaged and putting what he says to scrutiny. It's not to undermine him in anyway. If anything, I it's to expand and refine the mental model we are constructing together. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Anicko said:

Leo said something in one of his videos (the shocking truth about enlightenment, maybe?) that you may notice contradictions and that especially older videos just don't jive with newer ones. 

He's on a personal journey, and he's trying to help others find their own paths. This stuff is not easy to explain, especially to someone who's not in the right place at the time they watch a video. He can't just tell you what to do or think, and it seems like that's the underlying expectation for a post like this. 

It doesn't mean he should get rid of material just because it's not right to you. Any time you think anyone else "should" do anything, you are supposed to wake up to your judgements and be rid of them. That's the biggest key to inner work. Let Leo be a mirror for you. He's not supposed to be your mind. 

That's not the underlying expectation for this thread. I don't expect Leo to do the thinking for us; in fact this thread is to help people fight the inclination to treat Leo's content in that fashion. I'm not saying he should get rid of anything; I know personal development is not one-size-fits-all. This thread is to get people more engaged and active in the process and to not take what he says at face value (which is something Leo actually advocates). It's to serve as a reminder that he's on the same playing field as the rest of us and that we should work together to improve our models and expand upon his content. It's not to belittle him or say that his view is not valid.

[charlie2dogs]

A single sentence written reveals a great deal about the writer when seen by a conscious, aware being.  I didn't encounter Leo until not long ago but I have listen to quite a number of his videos and to date, I can find nothing to disagree with and Leo's videos are not making me complacent but rather reminding of things I have struggled with all my life, and now I can resonate with what he says.  Based on what I have seen and heard from Leo so far, if something were to arise that I felt resistance to, I would first turn it on myself and look deeply as to why the resistance was there, is it because of some false belief that I hold based on programing that I had received in life and held on to that might be creating the resistance.  Given the record I have seen from Leo in his videos I would have to think long and hard before I disagreed with what he said.  No two humans are on the same level of human consciousness, some have made more progress in evolving, when that happens those around them seem to want to hold on to their old belief systems rather than open up their minds to the possibility of something new that they haven't seen about themselves.  In order to assess ones own state of being it requires integrity.  The biggest problem with most things is that humans tend to rationalize and intellectualize things when they haven't had the living experience, which most often only add to their own entrapment created by their programing and belief system.  If your ear only allows you to hear and your mind only accepts what you believe, you are in deep deep trouble and those who are, cannot see it.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

A single sentence written reveals a great deal about the writer when seen by a conscious, aware being.  

Before I say anything else, what are you implying here? Are you a conscious and aware being who sees me, someone who is asleep? If so, could you please elaborate? I'm not denying the possibility.

[Amplituda]

@abrakamowse kill your ego, it doesn't deserve to live

[Amplituda]

@Philip Generally speaking it's very beneficial for individual  to avoid telling other people what they should or should not do. As an alternative, your behavioral pattern can imply and highlight what you stand for.

[Natasha]

3 hours ago, abrakamowse said:

I don't disagree, but my ego does... what can I do?

 

54 minutes ago, Amplituda said:

@abrakamowse kill your ego, it doesn't deserve to live

I think transcending ego would be a better alternative. That way you can still enjoy life and do fun things, while being grounded in the awareness of what you are existentially. That's where enlightenment work and self-actualization can go hand-in-hand. If you try to 'kill'/ neglect one or the other, life can get very unbalanced. 

[99th_monkey]

My gripe is that there's not enough "But Leeooooo?!?" Moments

[Key Elements]

23 hours ago, FocusOnTruth said:

@adramaay I'm just advocating that we try to think for our selves and really understand instead of passively accepting and falling into group think.

What do you mean by "group think?" 

Here's what I thought when I read this. I use what Leo says as a guide, not as ultimate. Leo, like the rest of us, is a map, not the territory. In many areas, he's a great map, but I had to adjust it to my territory. 

Also, just because a person lives or works in a group, doesn't mean the person cannot think for himself or herself. We will always be in a group, no matter what. One example: as long as we're humans and embodied, we will always have a relationship with earth - we can't destroy it and do whatever we want with it.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Key Elements

[Guest]

@Key Elements I am not saying that this is bound to happen to everyone ,and I'm not even saying there's anything inherently bad about being in a group.   Group think is just another term for mob mentality. All this thread if for is fighting the tendency to uncritically accept everything he says and help expand and refine his advice. I feel like my sentiment isn't really being conveyed clearly. I might just abandon this; most the work so far has been just explaining to people what this post was intended to do, rather than actually doing it.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not saying everyone falls into group think. I'm not saying I think Leo's message is bad. I just wanted to make a place to refine some of the main ideas of actualized.org and improve the mental model he offers us through his videos by gathering opposing perspectives.

Edited March 23, 2016 by FocusOnTruth

[JOEE]

On March 22, 2016 at 6:27 PM, Neill Bolton said:

That's exactly the point lol, we all have different passions. Leo is realizing his and hopefully you can yours.

Yea except he actually said "there's nothing better to do than to become a yogi" 

Lol

i don't think so. Let's not forget that it's because of rational people that we are able to communicate and share these ideas the way we're doing right now. 

I think the optimal idea is to unite rationality and enlightenment in a beautiful way that enables us to transcend beyond the self, but at the same time maintain our productivity and rationality to help solve our world problems. If we sit and do nothing man's ego will consume this earth and leave nothing behind for future generations. And no one left to uncover any other truths about existence or ourselves. 

[Key Elements]

@FocusOnTruth Ok. I get what you're saying. To me, his enlightenment clips are very basic. There's a lot more than that. But, I like it cause it's easy to understand - I no longer have to pass off my enlightenment experiences as dreams thanks to Leo. The no-ego = meaning peace without any human emotions other than peace is hard to understand without enlightenment experiences or studying enlightenment.

As for his other concepts on relationships  (co-dependent, independent, interdependent), Maslow & Graves model, and being post-rational, these things will probably fall into place for someone with a lot of life experiences. It did for me cause I immigrated to India from the US, and also cause I'm a startup. If I looked at Leo's clips a few years ago, most of it wouldn't have made sense to me. 

 

[Stef]

I don't like the fact that he encourages open-mindeness while being really closed-minded on several topics himself.

• Drugs. Okay, we get it. Drugs are bad m'kay. That used to be my way of thinking when I was 16. And an year later I tried pot. You can never be sure of the effects of something without trying/experiencing it for yourself. Drugs sure help you with broadening your worldview, adding new perspectives on life and even reaching certain truths. Also, remember what a little mr. Bill Hicks said - drugs have been the main source of inspiration for the most wonderful pieces of music we have today. So don't dismiss them so easily.
• Education. This one irritates me. You don't learn about life going to school. You learn about life from living/experiencing it. And while I agree that having some form of basic education is necessary don't forget that the system is different everywhere. In my country, for example, they teach us so much bullshit that has no practical use in life. They hammer in useless information even before the 7th grade on various subjects like we're going to major in everything. A lot of successful people have dropped out/never attended college so that is mostly optional.
• NoFap. It may seem silly to an outsider but if you've never experienced the benefits of abstinence you can't simply dismiss it. Porn/masturbation addiction is as real as any other addiction. The negative effects of regular porn consumption are proven and more and more keep popping up. It's a very serious issue, and if it weren't for NF me and a bunch of other people wouldn't be here or even considering self-improvement.

Leo has to learn from us at least as much as we learn from him.