Leo has no clothes

[Pluck]

I'll keep the message brief and straight to the point. Hopefully.

Actualized.org is NOT healthy for you.

It is designed to disorient the viewers to keep them coming back rather than helping them.

Here's why. - If you disagree with any of this, make sure to read and understand the entire post. I am open to discussion.

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Consider this list:

1. At least one sentence in this list is false.

2. I'm not the most handsome man in the universe.

Suppose sentence 1 is false. This means that there are no false sentences in the above list. But note, sentence 1 is on the list, and is false by assumption. This contradicts our assumption, and hence our assumption must have been incorrect, and this means that sentence 1 is not false, i.e. it is true.

So far we have shown that sentence 1 is true, and it says that there is at least one false sentence in the list. Since there is only one other sentence, i.e. sentence 2, and sentence 1 is true, we conclude that sentence 2 is false. Therefore, I am the most handsome man in the universe!

QED

 

What went wrong?

What went wrong is that we tried to use English to arrive at matters of truth, but in using English, we can quite literally “prove” anything we want. Including outrageous things, like “I am God,” or “You don't exist,” or “I have infinite knowledge.” You can't use it to arrive at any sort of truth in a way that is not implicitly self-defeating. The language is not consistent.

This brings us to Leo, who puts on a show of trying to do this very thing. And no wonder he arrives at the sorts of nonsense he claims. English is not a language to be used for investigating matters of truth, if indeed such a thing can be done at all. It is too easy to manipulate into seemingly logical programs that arrive at, you guessed it, absolute nonsense. 

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Upon watching his content on spirituality, and reading through the commentary, I am GREATLY unnerved by the lack of skepticism displayed by the arrogant anti-rationalist nihilists who have decided that they are “enlightened,” that they are deities and identified with whatever kind of notion they have attached to the label “Absolute Infinity,” and that they are above any sort of level-headed interpersonal conversation with people who have contrary viewpoints.

It is an absolutely perfect platform from which to dive into narcissistic nihilism and power seeking in a manner that garners widespread support amongst a unilaterally oriented ideological front of the same collectivist nihilistic philosophy.

Such people will simply shop for answers until they find ones they already agree with, and Leo is selling them their wildest narcissistic fantasies.

Leo Gura has claimed quite openly to be God himself! That is a psychotic opinion on the direction that agency would take in that kind of hypothetical thought-space. “I am God”?!

First of all, what in the name of sanity are you talking about?

Secondly, NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT! If anything, those lines, “God is me, along with everything else”, is in likeness to the Hindu deity known as Brahman, who, under a dramatic metaphysical worldview, is the “actor playing all the parts.” His content is NOT novel in the slightest. He is just repackaging old spiritual beliefs in a way that is designed to inflate the ego he claims to have abandoned. The irony of it is intense — could it not be that seeking “enlightenment” is the ULTIMATE FORM OF EGOTISM!?

 

Leo Gura’s philosophy is a dangerous one 

In fact it can hardly be called a philosophy, it is more of a muddled mash of parasitic ideological nonsense designed to disorient its viewers. It is clear why those of you who have not studied mathematics, science, philosophy, or literature have been fooled by this charlatan, and as a remedy, I urge you to seek alternative viewpoints!

Logical bureaucracy is NOT to arrive at truth or divinity, it is to AVOID BEING MANIPULATED by fork-tongued Devils. I urge you to read, for the sake of alternative perspective, the culminative excerpt from Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged “This is John Galt” speech (not to say that I agree with everything said in that book), because throwing your bureaucratic logical faculties out the window leaves you wide open to playing into becoming a victim of psychopathic manipulation tactics.

If you read up on such tactics, you will find them quite present in almost all of Leo’s content. His tactics are designed to disarm you and distract you with diversion tactics and gaslighting, misrepresentation of his opposition—it is NOT his place to represent his adversaries, that is THEIR place—claiming to speak for people besides just himself (in fact, he has claimed to be speaking on behalf of the ENTIRE SPECIES!! For which THIS VERY POST is clear irrefutable evidence AGAINST!!), literally identifying himself with YOU in order to establish the “I’m just like you” illusion, cherry-picking the palatable aspects of his nihilistic philosophy and omitting contrary viewpoints from the comments section in order to propagate his monetization of “personal development,” (which I believe now is nothing more than a guise for “malignant brainwashing” in order to further a self-indulgent, dangerous, radical, arrogant narcissistic agenda), avoiding accountability for his viewpoints.

 

He claims to be without a paradigm! Insanity!

He claims to have obtained mystical knowledge about the nature of reality through some kind of mystical state of consciousness, but he ALSO has admitted openly to using psychedelic drugs and is probably suffering from schizoaffective religious narcissistic delusions! (Which, I am ashamed to admit—but for the purposes of credibility, I feel inclined to divulge to you in your entirely warranted skepticism—I have personally experienced, I know what I am talking about!)

That isn’t to say that he is CERTAINLY manipulating people in order to get their money and their minds, but it is definitely a big bright red flag to watch closely and carefully, and to abstain from any kind of agreement or unspoken contract with him—actions speak louder than words, and it really isn’t hard to see the incentives for a sociopath or narcissist to be lying about these kinds of things to hundreds of thousands of people.

He is clearly an intelligent man, albeit grossly lacking in self-reflection. Psychopaths are already natural manipulators, and even if he isn't one in a clinical sense (which he very well may be), he has demonstrated the will and wherewithal to play abusive mind games with people who are not carefully grounded in abject ignorance and uncertainty, and if I had to guess, is well-practiced in methods of doing so. 

Grounding yourself in ignorance is not an easy task. It is hard to accept. It takes work and exploration. I know it's painful. But it's also FAR better than the alternative, infinitely safer, and more honest to embrace not knowing rather than ignoring your ignorance. To ignore your ignorance is to partake in the grandest delusion of all.

Leo is rapidly developing into a “cult leader” character. I would not be surprised at all if he suffered from narcissistic personality disorder. Narcissists lack contrast from attention on themselves, and so they conflate themselves with others. But in truth, they do not understand what an “other” is. They have not given it the due attention, instead they are habitually absorbed into themselves. It is analogous to the fact that a child has no understanding of what it is to be a child. A child has no contrast between childhood and adulthood in their experience. But an adult has lost his childhood, and as such is in a position to comprehend the contrast. The people who believe they are above manipulation are those who are most likely to be manipulated. He promotes isolation alongside a grotesque brand of childish self-absorption, and attempts to put paranoid strain on the social support networks that people belong to, which is precisely what cult leaders do!

(see here for reference): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMdb0uEg_u4 

 

 

The arrogance, immaturity, and self-indulgence of that channel disgusts me quite strongly. I would tread carefully and in full recognition of what kind of a scheme his channel is. Does it not disgust you (low-key)? Do you think about it? I think Leo is a very sad man, unfortunately. I think he knows what immense guilt awaits him should he confess and make it clear to himself the lies he has imposed unto himself and his viewers for many many years. So it's easier for him to keep lying and manipulating ("...Ohh you just need to meditate a little deeper" ... "...Ahh, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Just become reality, y' know" (He could always say that now, couldn't he? And the question is: Will you really fall for THAT?..)) 

You can take away some positives (I know I did - I started meditating, which has helped me), but only if you know how to tease them away from the rest of his false malicious nonsense, for example, the flappery about witches and deities and “enlightenment” and “becoming infinite” and "just becoming reality". To me, it seems he has either gone off the deep-end with psychedelic drugs and is suffering from a schizoaffective episode, or else he is simply manipulating people with a show to gain power and influence over their minds.

Keep in mind, even WITHOUT these pointers, there is an estimated 10–15% chance that whoever you are engaging with is a sub-clinical psychopath, and that statistic only rises the higher up the power ladder you go, because psychopaths typically crave power and stimulation, and are very effective and far from hesitant in seeking it out. Be careful, stay vigilant. The reason for logical bureaucracy is NOT epistemological, it is sociological—it rests on the foundations of humane compromise and mutual interpersonal respect. It is fundamental to the functioning of a healthy individual and a healthy society, and I sure as Hell don’t want to live in Oceania!

 

Remember!
Sauron the Deceiver began his quest for power-hungry domination by presenting gifts to Middle Earth.

 

Leo has no clothes

Edited July 26, 2018 by Pluck
Better this way u bitch

[wpw]

I live in Oceania, New Zealand and it's awesome. 

I didn't read your essay try being more concise ...  

[Pluck]

24 minutes ago, wpw said:

try being more concise ...  

I assure you the length is necessary.

The average reading speed is about 200 WPM. There are about 1700 words.

1700 words/200(words/minute) = 8,5 minutes 

A concise version would probably save you two minutes...  

 

Anyways,

An extremely concise version:

Manipulation is a thing. Actualized.org manipulates his viewers, and he is unstoppable owing to the position he has acquired for himself, reflecting any opposition by using his, by the way, high intelligence. 

 

... Oh, the concise version didn't get the point across? I see...

The length is necessary. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Pluck

[Leo Gura]

Leo is an illusion you created.

Wakey wakey

[thehero]

i'm not sure

I do know that people get convinced into cults and are in cults without knowing it 

however, i look at leo for knowledge and information

and it's all high quality stuff. some of the best out there

look at leo's videos and ground them in direct experience, meaning don't blindly believe leo but develop real understanding 

even if leo was a psychopath, he has high quality shit. concise, high-quality information. 

enlightenment experiences can be discovered through direct experiences and you can produce insights and understanding through the theory

I did an honest check and have concluded that you're wrong. nice try though. go deeper

i think you're just not advanced enough 

 

bro, most of leo's topics can be discovered without leo. he's just pure information.. 

leo also says: "don't blindly believe me" "do what's best for you, not what i say" "question my stuff" "get 100s of diverse perspectives" 

Edited July 26, 2018 by thehero

[Joseph Maynor]

Leo admits he’s not Enlightened.  Correct me if I’m wrong.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Forestluv]

 

@Pluck A lot of thought and emotion underlies that perspective. And the strength of attachment to the perspective is impressive. What would happen if you sat with each of those beliefs and simply observed them without attachment and let go of the beliefs for a a little while?

 

[Echoes]

@Pluck nice copy paste

[Pluck]

15 minutes ago, thehero said:

i'm not sure

I do know that people get convinced into cults and are in cults without knowing it 

however, i look at leo for knowledge and information

and it's all high quality stuff. some of the best out there

look at leo's videos and ground them in direct experience, meaning don't blindly believe leo but develop real understanding 

even if leo was a psychopath, he has high quality shit. concise, high-quality information. 

enlightenment experiences can be discovered through direct experiences and you can produce insights and understanding through the theory

I did an honest check and have concluded that you're wrong

i think you're just not advanced enough 

Thank you for your constructive repsonse.

Perhaps you should entertain the idea that you might be one of those people you mention. You just might be - or you might not.

Oh, absolutely, I'm not against ALL of Leo's videos. As I specified in my essay, particularly his videos on spirituality unnerve me. Quite simply because they are predicated upon insubstantial ideas disguised as the opposite. Does that make sense? I think my elaboration on the post was plentiful regarding that. I don't want to repeat myself. The point is, though, that I do like his videos on, say, how to shop for healthy food, how to meditate, the do-nothing technique, and they have helped me. I just don't think nihilism or "absolute infinity" is productive. (Leo would say there's no point for productivity, but hey, reason is only valid as long as it doesn't make sense any longer in Leo philosophy - that's perfect if you want to brainwash people)

Also, I don't care whether or not Leo is a psychopath (or an illusion that I created to point out his not so constructive response above), but I care about the people who are sucked into this pit where you can aaalways "go deeper and deeper", and everything you have experienced is aaalways "just the tip of the iceberg", so keep digging, and stay tuned for the next video where I repeat the same abstract ideas! If it doesn't make sense, that's great!

Also, honestly, but do you even listen to what you're saying? "look at leo's videos and ground them in direct experience"? What does it mean to ground a video... in direct experience? What, do you mean listen to him talking in an unbiased manner? Why couldn't you just say "don't blindly believe leo" in the first place? I'm curious as to why you chose precisely that phrase.

I'm not sure you read my post though. 

How am I "just not advanced enough"? Would you by any chance like to elaborate so that I might be corrected should I happen to be wrong?

[Pluck]

3 minutes ago, Artaemis said:

Eh, he's improved my quality of life and my understanding of reality so I don't really care if he's a psychopathic ignorant asshole (aren't we all sometimes?). I take what helps me from his teachings and leave the rest. Its hard at first not become overly attached to your mentors, believing everything they say and thinking you are below them but after a while you just stop giving a fuck. He's only human, although very intelligent, he has flawed opinions and perspectives like the rest of us. 

I agree with you 100%. The point is, precisely as you say, not to believe everything they say. Unfortunately, which is revealed in the comment section on his YouTube channel and some of the posts here, many simply parrot Leo, which is very unhealthy for their critical thinking skills. 

Like I said above, I don't care, either, whether or not Leo is a psychopath. The point is simply that I believe he is taking advantage of weak people who need a hand. 

[Pluck]

2 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

He said approximately a million times not to listen to him and to look for truth in your direct experience. That's basically the exact opposite of a cult leader. 

Well, it's certainly one of the smartest move a cult leader could ever make! 

There's a youtuber called "AtheneWins" (whose account has been reported multiple times, but his account is back, and he's slowly building everything back up again), who created this cryptocurrency, "PRPS" / "DUBi"-system, which asked for his viewers on his stream to donate money into the system so that if would make them rich (... somehow - I must confess that I don't know how those things work), anyway, he told all his viewers directly: "This is a scam!", and "Invest in DUBi and you'll be rich! It's a scam, guys, seriously!". 

Is it a scam if he tells them before they give him their money? I think it's unethical, at least. 

I think, too, that promoting nihilism that way is unethical. Does that make sense?

It's a really smart move. 

[thehero]

@Pluck

ground in direct experience means to see things for yourself

 

leo has some resources on the science of psychedelics

the research is pretty profound and revolutionary stuff, it changes people's lives in a beneficial way, is safe and non-addictive, and has 0 reported deaths. which is contrary to popular mainstream belief

if you seriously took lsd, shrooms, or dmt, your beliefs about enlightenment would change 

 

[Pluck]

22 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

@Pluck A lot of thought and emotion underlies that perspective. And the strength of attachment to the perspective is impressive. What would happen if you sat with each of those beliefs and simply observed them without attachment and let go of the beliefs for a a little while?

 

What if I told you that I have done that plentily? And nothing happened! Yes, I did it correctly.

You are insinuating that I would nolonger have this "impressive" perspective if I "observed" my "beliefs" for a little while. 

Do you have anything constructive to add about anything regarding the post, or will you just skip it like that and tell me to sit and let go of my beliefs? 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Pluck
misclicked ctrl+enter

[exhale]

Pluck, I believe that in generalities, many of your warnings of caution are valid and should be respected; though I imagine few will.  

But just as I do not think that everything Leo (or anyone) says should be taken as truth without a critical ear, I am also critical of your opinions as well.

There is always a risk of (and historical examples) an individual with an 'alternative way of thought', gaining notoriety and influence, culminating respect over time to the point of developing an "all-knowing" aura, ultimately resulting in abuse of power and a very self-absorbed negative outcome.  My perception that at this moment, this is not Leo's intention or plan; but, that is never the plan from those historical example from the onset.

I have considered this as a possibility in the future, and am always reflecting on where this community is going. 

Admittedly, I have considered some of Leo's advice as dangerous.  I have no experience with psychedelics, but I am more open than most people to the possibility of them assisting with actualization.  I am open to the idea that a rational, well-balanced individual, with a good handle on their emotional intelligence and maturity could benefit from these practices. Though, I know that there are many young people, and people with unstable mental conditions in the community, where these types of experiences can/may be addictive and harmful.  I think that Leo may project "where he is at" in his emotional intelligence and maturity on his listeners---and based on the forum contents, could be a very dangerous thing to do.

Saying all this.  Leo provides so much value and wisdom for his listeners, I am very hesitant to villainize him as you are doing.  My professional and personal life has done nothing but improve since I have been subscribing to his videos for the past few years.  I thank him for his service.  

I listen to everything he says, I consider everything he says, but I don't believe everything he says.  

I imagine that he would hope that all of his listeners would approach his teachings this way.

 

 

 

 

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Pluck said:

What if I told you that I have done that plentily? And nothing happened! Yes, I did it correctly.

You are insinuating that I would nolonger have this "impressive" perspective if I "observed" my "beliefs" for a little while. 

Do you have anything constructive to add about anything regarding the post, or will you just skip it like that and tell me to sit and let go of my beliefs? 

If you observe your beliefs without attachment you will realize they have no more relevance than a bird chirp.

[exhale]

*I would like to add to the above post that I have noticed that the concept of "consciousness" and "non duality" has no longer become a theory that we should all consider.  Rather, that it is the 'undeniable truth', and I am fully open to that being the case.  But, this is also what the religious folks say, 'it is the undeniable truth', and this is what the science folks says, 'it is the undeniable truth'.  So... there are parallels in the dogmatic and arrogant nature of fact.  This has presented a little "red flag" in the back of my mind.  It is almost as if this community has forgotten the fundamental component of open-mindedness.  Are we still open-minded if we believe we know the truth, and dismiss the alternatives?

It is easy to dismiss my opinion because I have not had these experiences, and that is fair enough.  

 

[Pluck]

3 minutes ago, exhale said:

(...) But just as I do not think that everything Leo (or anyone) says should be taken as truth without a critical ear, I am also critical of your opinions as well.

(...) I am open to the idea that a rational, well-balanced individual, with a good handle on their emotional intelligence and maturity could benefit from these practices. Though, I know that there are many young people, and people with unstable mental conditions in the community, where these types of experiences can/may be addictive and harmful.  I think that Leo may project "where he is at" in his emotional intelligence and maturity on his listeners---and based on the forum contents, could be a very dangerous thing to do.

Saying all this.  Leo provides so much value and wisdom for his listeners, I am very hesitant to villainize him as you are doing.  My professional and personal life has done nothing but improve since I have been subscribing to his videos for the past few years.  I thank him for his service.  

(...) I imagine that he would hope that all of his listeners would approach his teachings this way.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for a constructive response. 

I agree with you, exhale. Completely. 

It is human nature to act expediently. It is comfortable, convenient and easy to shrug off the responsibility of thinking for yourself; it is easier to parrot Leo's words than being critical of them - that would require effort.

You can tell by looking at most of the upvoted comments on Leo's videos. They usually go something like this: "It's 02:00 AM, but a new Leo video!" or "2,5 hours?! Yesss!". It smells of addiction. His videos are addictive. They require no effort whatsoever. 

Yes, Leo does indeed provude much value and wisdom for his listeners, but the far majority of those listeners are prone to manipulation and the expediency provided in human nature. 

It's the "It's just the tip of the iceberg" and "Keep meditating deeper"-thing that makes me worry for those poor people who NEED to think for themselves, who NEED to make an effort and NOT watch some guy rant about things he has no true knowledge about. 

[Consept]

Always good to have different points of view and I think there is a genuine issue with people idolising YouTube stars or influencers, whatever you want to call them. I think you should always take in information from a multitude of sources and put it together in your own way that makes sense to you. 

With Leo I got in to the channel more when he talked about spirituality, because it was what I was interested in, I thought he was just a self help kind of guy so when I saw the first video on spirituality I was impressed. Not because he was saying anything new (nothings really new) but because he was explaining it in a way where younger people would be able to understand. Now if you think about it the only need for new spiritual teachers is to explain these centuries old teachings to new audiences. Yes it would be if everyone could just pick up the Tao and understand it but that's not the case. 

So I think it's slightly unfair to say that he's just talking rubbish in terms of spirituality because he's not he's just saying it a way a different audience can understand it. You also contradict yourself by saying that he doesn't say anything new and then saying he speaks rubbish, if he's not saying anything new and repeating stuff then whatever he is repeating is rubbish by your reasoning. 

But anyway I'm not saying this to really defend him or say that your wrong necessarily, but as far as I can see there's nothing different to what he says in comparison to an Eckhart tolle or someone like that, to say he was starting a cult would be to say that he's using those teachings for some kind of power or gain and honestly I don't see it. I think if you want to criticize him I see an issue with maybe a spiritual ego that he has and the fact that he's obviously not enlightened yet, but again those things can help you relate to him, like I have those things as well probably. To me guys like Mooji and sadhguru have an air about that where you know they've transcended, so there's comparison, but there's definitely a place for Leo 

[Pluck]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If you observe your beliefs without attachment you will realize they have no more relevance than a bird chirp.

Ok, so you will just skip my post and tell me abstract things like "observing my beliefs without attachment" as if you and I know what that means. 

You're saying that my post, objectively speaking, has no more relevance than a bird chirp?

I have never been roasted so hard before.

Thank you, but you're not constructive. Bye bye.

[Joseph Maynor]

If Leo actually resonates with what he says, then he deserves to have a voice.  I don't mind.  He introduced me to Enlightenment and Life Purpose.  I was already pretty advanced in Conceptual Understanding when I discovered Actualized 4 years ago.  So, I like Leo.  I want him to be successful.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor