Spiral dynamics model breaks down under emotional mastery

[How to be wise]

What would happen to a stage red or blue person if they somehow received full emotional mastery and enters a constant state of bliss and joy. Hard to think they would carry on being a warlord or inforcing religion (now they no longer have fear of disobeying god). So how would that person start acting tomorrow. What stage would they be in?

I know that Ken Wilber said in his interview with batgap that ‘waking up’ (enlightenment), ‘growing up’ (spiral dynamics) and ‘cleaning up’ (emotional mastery) where separate things and mostly unrelated. But when you think deeper, you can’t imagine a guy who is in constant bliss chasing money or attacking people. What stage would such a guy be in. What are your opinions? 

[Cudin]

stage god

[Leo Gura]

@How to be wise A stage Red or Blue person cannot have full emotional mastery because they are fundamentally deluded by ego at that stage. They can have a peak mystical experience, but they will not have full emotional mastery because that is a stage far beyond even enlightenment. That requires unimaginable degrees of consciousness which a stage Red or Blue person could not muster. The whole point of being at Red/Blue is that you are resisting full emotional mastery. If you got it, you'd transcend Red/Blue. At least at this day and age.

2000 years ago might have been a bit different because culture was so underdeveloped.

[Sockrattes]

@Leo Gura I'm wondering at which point in human development Spiral Dynamics as a model started to make sense.

At 1950s when stage yellow emerged?

[Leo Gura]

@Sockrattes At the moment it was invented

You have to understand that Spiral Dynamics did not exist 100 years ago. Electrons did not exist 300 years ago. Human rights did not exist 500 years ago. Mathematics did not exist 10,000 years ago. Etc.

All of these are conceptual schemes which cannot exist until they are invented.

For example, the notion of a subconscious mind did not exist until Sigmund Freud invented it 100 years ago.

Think about that! There was no subconscious mind before it was invented by a human! And then it appeared one day.

The ancient Greeks did not have subconscious minds! You do!

There were no electrons 300 years ago, now they exist! Ta-da!

YOU are inventing all this shit while vehemently denying that you are doing so.

You even invented the concept of your own birth. That's how you came into being! You did not exist until you thought, "I exist". And you will die as soon as you realize, "I never existed!"

Ta-da!

(Of course by "you" here I mean the ego, not the Absolute. The Absolute is eternal.)

[CreamCat]

Does spiral dynamics have any relation to emotional mastery?

[Leo Gura]

@CreamCat Loosely

[Sockrattes]

@Leo Gura Interesting. And on a broader sense this is comprehensible.

My question here is, does this apply only for conceptual schemes or is this the reality for everything?

I mean for example: Were dinosaurs 'invented' when we found the first skeletons?

In the end, apart from a few fossils, everything we know about those animals are conceptual schemes too, right?

 

EDIT: Typo

Edited July 25, 2018 by Sockrattes

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Sockrattes said:

I mean for example: Were dinosaurs 'invented' when we found the first skeletons?

It's much weirder than that!

Dinosaurs are a concept in your head.

You ain't never seen a dinosaur. And even if you had, unless you are looking one in the face right this second, it is a concept nonetheless.

Your own birth is a concept!

Your own head is a concept!

Oh-oh... this isn't looking too good for you...

[TomDashingPornstar]

The Prophet Mohammed could conquer an army with a smile.  

Edited July 25, 2018 by TomDashingPornstar

[Sockrattes]

@Leo Gura So apart from the present moment, everything must be a concept. What are the implications?

Reality is subject to rules of radical subjectivity and i can be everything, just when i learn to control the present moment, or is reality more like what we all agree on, in a intersubjectivemanner?

Edited July 25, 2018 by Sockrattes

[Leo Gura]

@Sockrattes Self inquire and see for yourself. What is True cannot be spoken.

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura Ok, but hypothetically, if a tribe in Africa somehow received full emotional mastery this instant, how would they start acting? How would they start living?

[Samra]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Sockrattes At the moment it was invented

You have to understand that Spiral Dynamics did not exist 100 years ago. Electrons did not exist 300 years ago. Human rights did not exist 500 years ago. Mathematics did not exist 10,000 years ago. Etc.

All of these are conceptual schemes which cannot exist until they are invented.

For example, the notion of a subconscious mind did not exist until Sigmund Freud invented it 100 years ago.

Think about that! There was no subconscious mind before it was invented by a human! And then it appeared one day.

The ancient Greeks did not have subconscious minds! You do!

There were no electrons 300 years ago, now they exist! Ta-da!

YOU are inventing all this shit while vehemently denying that you are doing so.

You even invented the concept of your own birth. That's how you came into being! You did not exist until you thought, "I exist". And you will die as soon as you realize, "I never existed!"

Ta-da!

(Of course by "you" here I mean the ego, not the Absolute. The Absolute is eternal.)

Wow. This was amazing. It shook something. It's funny how you hear something over and over and over and ... and one day... BAM! Existent didn't exist until I (god) invented it. Now this I needs to realize it doesn't exist.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Samra

[Arman]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura Ok, but hypothetically, if a tribe in Africa somehow received full emotional mastery this instant, how would they start acting? How would they start living?

hypotheticals are for siths