How Do You Raise Your Awareness?

[SkyPanther]

1 hour ago, Nomad said:

 

John Peacock & Stephen Batchelor.  They have some interesting views on Buddhism.  They believe the Buddha teachings were misinterpreted by the Western transcribers, and that the original teaching has nothing to do with the Tibetan system.  Batchelor was both a Zen and Teibetan student.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thank you, I will take a look.

I actually do not follow Zen or the Tibetan version, but Theravada; and than not the religious/ritualized version, just the Pali cannon (the middle, long discourses, etc) as translated by Bhikku Bodi.

[Guest]

@SkyPanther OK.  I mentioned Batchelors involvement with Zen and Tibetan Buddhism because he has a good grounding in both these schools.  However he does not subscribe to them. They have both gone straight back to the original Pali Canon to get to the original teaching.  There is no Nibanna, there is no absolute truth.  This is a radical shift from what the West has come to know as Eastern philosophy.  It is my opinion that people like Eckhart Tolle have unwittingly bastardised Buddhism. Obviously the Dalai Lama subscribes to the Tibetan model, which Batchelor & Peacock assert has nothing to do with the original teaching.  A lot of what we get now are remnants of belief systems of the way the people thought at the time.  Concrete operational beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

[SkyPanther]

2 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther OK.  I mentioned Batchelors involvement with Zen and Tibetan Buddhism because he has a good grounding in both these schools.  However he does not subscribe to them. They have both gone straight back to the original Pali Canon to get to the original teaching.  There is no Nibanna, there is no absolute truth.  This is a radical shift from what the West has come to know as Eastern philosophy.  It is my opinion that people like Eckhart Tolle have unwittingly bastardised Buddhism. Obviously the Dalai Lama subscribes to the Tibetan model, which Batchelor & Peacock assert has nothing to do with the original teaching.  A lot of what we get now are remnants of belief systems of the way the people thought at the time.  Concrete operational beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

Ahh, interesting.

 

Nibbana, at least from my point of view is a mind that is in a concept free state.

There was a booklet I read a few weeks ago called "concept and reality" that has said the same thing.

 

Ultimately what happens after death is irrelevant to me. Ditto with god or no.

It is fun to conjecture about it, but the Buddha did not really think it was worth the effort because it's all just that, conjecture.

[Guest]

@SkyPanther

3 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

Nibbana, at least from my point of view is a mind that is in a concept free state.

Of course.  But it's not permanent, enlightenment is itself just another process.  Well, according to these guys anyway.

[SkyPanther]

10 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther

Of course.  But it's not permanent, enlightenment is itself just another process.  Well, according to these guys anyway.

Yeah, that makes sense when talking about mind states, having to guard your sense stores, etc, was supposed to be a 24/7 thing; i.e. Being mindful at all times, not just when sitting.

Though I will say that once you get to the 4th Jhana, equanimity is really easy to bring up from whatever other mind state you were in before.  Though I may be projecting.  

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by SkyPanther

[Will]

15 hours ago, Nomad said:

Not sure about that.  You both already lost when you labelled them difficult. 

hahaha bang!! right on!!

 

[Will]

15 hours ago, Nomad said:

 Not sure about that.  You both already lost when you labelled them difficult. 

to be unbiased you did use the word lost..  being cheeky I know but id rather have fun ..

[Will]

Some other ways of becoming more aware??

Expand your horizons externally and internally.i.e. challenge yourself externally and internally

as your doing so become keenly aware of as much as you can..try and involve every sense and look for emtions .. see if you can invent some new emotions??

[SkyPanther]

20 hours ago, Nomad said:

 

John Peacock & Stephen Batchelor.  They have some interesting views on Buddhism.  They believe the Buddha teachings were misinterpreted by the Western transcribers, and that the original teaching has nothing to do with the Tibetan system.  Batchelor was both a Zen and Teibetan student.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thank you for sharing this, I watched it today.

I think it is really interesting, and they make a lot of good points.

I too share their point on looking only at the early texts. (The Pali Canon). 

A few points that I found interesting, in that I thought it was a bit odd.

They made a really good point that the Buddha did not like extremes. Pure Atheism is an extreme.  (And I say that as an Agnostic Atheist).

The Buddha did talk, in the early texts, about Kamma, Rebirth, and different extra sensory powers you get via meditation.   Those were not put in by Tibetans, Zen, etc...    He also spoke about "gods"(or devas) that were also stuck in Samsara. (They were from his point of view, begins with a higher sense of consciousness who were once living beings.)

The other thing is that in (Nepal)/India Kamma, rebirth, etc, were not the "traditional" point of view.  They had a huge mix of different philosophies. For Instance the teachers that were known by the Buddha and society of the time:

Pūraṇa Kassapa: Amoralism: denies any reward or punishment for either good or bad deeds.

Makkhali Gosāla (Ajivika): Fatalism: we are powerless; suffering is pre-destined.

Ajita Kesakambalī: Materialism: with death, all is annihilated.

Pakudha Kaccāyana: Sassatavada (Eternalism): Matter, pleasure, pain and the soul are eternal and do not interact.

Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta (Jainism): Restraint: be endowed with, cleansed by and suffused with the avoidance of all evil.

Sañjaya Belaṭṭhiputta: Agnosticism: "I don't think so. I don't think in that way or otherwise. I don't think not or not not." Suspension of judgement.

Source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.02.0.than.html

The Buddha did not teach Eternalism, or Materialism, but something in between. (As both are extremes).  Rebirth is different from reincarnation, for instance;  Rebirth is akin to a candle lighting another candle; passing the "grasping fire" to another "life".  Reincarnation is akin to moving water from one glass to another.  Where the glass is the body, and the water is the "soul".    The Buddha himself seemed to me, was pretty much an Non-theistic Agnostic when it comes to "god". 

Now, I do not think what the people in the video are saying is "invalid", I just think it is painted with their own pre-existing worldview(Atheism/Materialism).  There is nothing wrong with that, it makes living interesting, and the nice thing with Buddhism is that it can adapt that way. My own "version" of Buddhism is likewise painted with "agnosticism", which is tempered with faith, and wisdom(the Buddhist versions of these words).   Who is "right"?  I think that is irrelevant.  If their ideas works for them, makes them enlightened, happy, free from suffering, etc, it should not matter.  Everyone is on their own path; so ultimately, as long as people are striving to better themselves I think "how" is not as important as if it's working for them personally. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Everyone is on their own path; so ultimately, as long as people are striving to better themselves I think "how" is not as important as if it's working for them personally. 

Exactly, 

Throws absolute truth out of the window then, like they suggested.

[SkyPanther]

3 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Everyone is on their own path; so ultimately, as long as people are striving to better themselves I think "how" is not as important as if it's working for them personally. 

Exactly, 

Throws absolute truth out of the window then, like they suggested.

Define absolute truth?  

 

Ethics/Virtue (or Sila) was actually not something they said should be thrown out.   It is part of enlightenment. 

That is what I mean by "I do not subscribe to relativism".  Harming a living being is ultimately destructive;  Lying is ultimately destructive. 

If one society restricts the rights of women, homosexuals, religious minorities, and another does not, there is no "relativism" one is ultimately "more aware" or tolerant.   That to me is "truth". 

 

And scientifically speaking, I think that is the correct "path":

Altruism May Be More Innate Than Thought

http://psychcentral.com/news/2016/03/21/scientists-believe-altruistic-traits-are-innate/100740.html

[Guest]

@SkyPanther you define absolute truth.  you brought it up.

[SkyPanther]

Just now, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther you define absolute truth.  you brought it up.

I did.  My definition is in the reply of the other post, but I will copy paste it again:

[...] That is what I mean by "I do not subscribe to relativism".  Harming a living being is ultimately destructive;  Lying is ultimately destructive. 

If one society restricts the rights of women, homosexuals, religious minorities, and another does not, there is no "relativism" one is ultimately "more aware" or tolerant.   That to me is "truth". 

[Guest]

@SkyPanther You dont even know what relativism is.

You're an absolutist who believes there is only one virtue.  And it's not even your virtue.  It's an indoctrination, and what you introject in order to cope with those you feel are wounding you, you will see.

That's why you need metta.  Metta is learning how to swim in a sea of your own projections while you fuck around at the top of the buddhist pecking order dishing out your judgements onto the world and the people in it.

Your words dont align.  your actions dont align.  You reap what you sow and you are part of the problem.

Until you grow into relativism you will remain where you are.

Do I give a fuck about your twisted individual version of Buddhism?  Quite frankly no.  But I do enjoy calling out a cu** when I come across one.

 

 

 

[SkyPanther]

Just now, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther You dont even know what relativism is.

You're an absolutist who believes there is only one virtue.  And it's not even your virtue.  It's an indoctrination, and what you introject in order to cope with those you feel are wounding you, you will see.

That's why you need metta.  Metta is learning how to swim in a sea of your own projections while you fuck around at the top of the buddhist pecking order dishing out your judgements onto the world and the people in it.

Your words dont align.  your actions dont align.  You reap what you sow and you are part of the problem.

Until you grow into relativism you will remain where you are.

Do I give a fuck about your twisted individual version of Buddhism?  Quite frankly no.  But I do enjoy calling out a cu** when I come across one.

 

 

 

I see, well, there is no need to speak with you further as we have come to an impasse.  Have a great rest of the day.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

I see, well, there is no need to speak with you further as we have come to an impasse.  Have a great rest of the day.

Yes, goodbye.  You will not be missed

[0000]

i could share some tips.

[Will]

@SkyPanther @Nomad  Hahaha, well done peoples.. found yourself some more practice I see..

Keep up the good work..

Got into a bit of a slinging match there..

let the other have there way and open yourself to be changed.. both of you have valid  views and perspectives..

your logical minds are coming up with some great arguments and justifications . but that is all it is..

was fun watching.. thankyou

[theinevitableandi]

9 hours ago, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther You dont even know what relativism is.

You're an absolutist who believes there is only one virtue.  And it's not even your virtue.  It's an indoctrination, and what you introject in order to cope with those you feel are wounding you, you will see.

That's why you need metta.  Metta is learning how to swim in a sea of your own projections while you fuck around at the top of the buddhist pecking order dishing out your judgements onto the world and the people in it.

Your words dont align.  your actions dont align.  You reap what you sow and you are part of the problem.

Until you grow into relativism you will remain where you are.

Do I give a fuck about your twisted individual version of Buddhism?  Quite frankly no.  But I do enjoy calling out a cu** when I come across one.

 

 

 

LOL! SUPER EGO RIGHT HERE GETTING ALL EMOTIONAL!

[Grasshopper]

On 3/20/2016 at 6:22 AM, Daphne said:

Besides meditation, what do you do? 

Tips are very welcome

Practice inhabiting your body. Try to be aware of your breath, the bodily sensations in your arms, legs , whole body, as much as you can.

Also practice being "the watcher" of your thoughts. Don't interpret your thoughts, just observe.

Keep this awareness up throughout your day, as often as you can remember.