How Do You Raise Your Awareness?

[SkyPanther]

15 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther I'm certain we're talking about the same thing.  I'm happy for your success.  I think my problem is that I haven't got the Buddhist language to convey it.

 

Lol,  sorry if it comes off "brainwashed", I have been reading the Pali canon, so it's all still fresh in my mind, and I really like the word choice of the people that transcribed the Buddhas teachings. (Well, or technically it's the people that translated the Canon from Pali to English)

[SkyPanther]

3 minutes ago, Nomad said:

 

Thanks.  So you do mean ordinary people?

Well, everyone is "ordinary"; or do you mean people that aren't famous or infamous?  

I mean in the general sense, anyone that is perceived as "difficult" to deal with because of the choices they make, which are sometimes unskillful, unwholesome or "evil". 

Or as Leo would call them, ego/selfishness driven.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

Well, everyone is "ordinary"; or do you mean people that aren't famous or infamous?  

I mean in the general sense, anyone that is perceived as "difficult" to deal with because of the choices they make, which are sometimes unskillful, unwholesome or "evil". 

Or as Leo would call them, ego/selfishness driven.

Right.  So win-win is our shared value.  We just have different ways of going about.

 

 

 

[Guest]

@SkyPanther The thought has just occurred to me that this conversation is one excellent way to raise awareness.

[SkyPanther]

6 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Right.  So win-win is our shared value.  We just have different ways of going about.

 

 

 

Yes, provided that both parties are actively working on improving themselves (practice patience/Metta) it's win-win.

I think ultimately if there is mutual respect, and we are following the Golden Rule, it's win-win for everyone involved.

But people like Trump that divide people due to race, sex, creed, etc are not out to  minimize thier ego.  They are out to grow it. That is what the Buddha, Leo, Tolle, etc, would call an unskillful, unwholesome volitional action.

Edited March 20, 2016 by SkyPanther

[Guest]

@SkyPanther Do you think there is a possibility of being able to appeal to their inherent win-win nature by not labelling them as difficult?  

[SkyPanther]

1 minute ago, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther Do you think there is a possibility of being able to appeal to their inherent win-win nature by not labelling them as difficult?  

You can call them lovely people, if that meaning convays people that you personally have non-equanimous reactions to. 

 

 

[Guest]

@SkyPanther I'm sorry.  I didn't make myself clear.  I'm not asking you a question. I already know in my own experience that labelling people forces them act out my projections for me.  I was challenging you to contemplate the idea that perhaps you are creating your own problems by taking moral high ground therefore unconsciously invite people to play political games in your presence, rather than treat you with respect.

This might seem a radical idea for a Buddhist. 

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by Nomad

[SkyPanther]

17 minutes ago, Nomad said:

@SkyPanther I'm sorry.  I didn't make myself clear.  I'm not asking you a question. I already know in my own experience that labelling people forces them act out my projections for me.  I was challenging you to contemplate the idea that perhaps you are creating your own problems by taking moral high ground therefore unconsciously invite people to play political games in your presence, rather than treat you with respect.

This might seem a radical idea for a Buddhist. 

 

There was a question asked in the OP, I answered it. 

 

Dealing with people that you personally find "difficult" can be used to point out the parts of your ego that is finding them difficult.  By figuring out what is making them difficult for you, you can work out that part in yourself so that they are no longer seen as difficult.

I am sorry if the label is upsetting, but words on a forum have to convey meaning.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by SkyPanther

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

Dealing with people that you personally find "difficult" can be used to point out the parts of your ego that are finding them difficult.  By figuring out what is making them difficult for you, you can work out that part in yourself so that they are no longer seen as difficult.

The label is not upsetting me.  But it seems to be upsetting you and your work colleagues.

So we're back to relativism then?  

Full circle.

Love these games

[SkyPanther]

3 minutes ago, Nomad said:

The label is not upsetting me.  But it seems to be upsetting you and your work colleagues.

So we're back to relativism then?  

Full circle.

Love these games

Where did I say they were upsetting me?

I said they were not upsetting me, I send them Metta.

Trump does not upset me either, nor does ISIS. I see they are doing unskillful actions, but I have zero Ill will, hate, dislike or stress towards them.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SkyPanther said:

These people should not be hated but loved, they help with development more than most think.

Kind of implies that if there is an impulse to hate and you need metta, then on some level they are indeed upsetting you.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

Where did I say they were upsetting me?

I said they were not upsetting me, I send them Metta.

Trump does not upset me either, nor does ISIS. I see they are doing unskillful actions, but I have zero Ill will, hate, dislike or stress towards them.

 

4 hours ago, SkyPanther said:

Practice mindfulness with "difficult" people.

 

For instance, how do you know you are patient unless your patience is tried?

Being around difficult people is a workout for your mindfulness, and they can be the best teachers and show you places in your psyche that are still bound with a bit of ego.

 

2 hours ago, SkyPanther said:

Yes, the types of people you send Metta to. Ditto with Donald Trump. They are your teachers. If you have hate in your heart (or aversion) towards them, there is still work to do on your part. 

You can still acknowledged they are doing unskillful actions, (which is judgement) but you harbor no ill will towards them as people.

Confused.  It sounds like a moment ago they had the power to upset you, and that metta is needed to deal with it

[SkyPanther]

2 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Kind of implies that if there is an impulse to hate and you need metta, then on some level they are indeed upsetting you.

No, I send them Metta because I feel no need to get involved in thier games/plays, etc.  

There was a time that I got worked up; that time has mostly passed.

I am by no means perfect in mindfulness, but catching myself getting upset at people, figuring out why, and resolving it, has been very helpful.

This is recommended by multiple people not just me. The Buddha, Tolle, the Dalai Lama, etc.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

No, I send them Metta because I feel no need to get involved in thier games/plays, etc.  

There was a time that I got worked up; that time has mostly passed.

I am by no means perfect in mindfulness, but catching myself getting upset at people, figuring out why, and resolving it, has been very helpful.

This is recommended by multiple people not just me. The Buddha, Tolle, the Dalai Lama, etc.

Right. 

Crystal clear

Edited March 20, 2016 by Nomad

[SkyPanther]

5 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Right. 

Crystal clear

 

9 minutes ago, Nomad said:

 

 

Confused.  It sounds like a moment ago they had the power to upset you, and that metta is needed to deal with it

I said if people upset you, work on trying to figure out why.

I think you are trying to antagonize a bit now,  that is not needed. 

 

[Guest]

Let me summerise:

You give metta to difficult people to grow your patience with them.

Because their actions are ego based, unconscious, and evil.

But only with really horrible people like Donald Trump and ISIS members.

However the people around you are usually nice.

But then wait, some political people you work with who are ego based, unconscious and evil, and the news is a drag.  

So now you admit that you're not talking about Donald Trump and ISIS bandits really,  but normal people who are also now unconscious evil and egotistical.

So to be win win for you Donald Trump and ISIS bandits and your (presumably) work colleagues must work on themselves and diminish ego.

Then all of a sudden these people are not upsetting you, you're not upsetting them, they only upset you in the beginning but now you give them metta they dont upset you anymore but still try to drag you into their political games.

I'm a bit confused, I'll be honest

[SkyPanther]

2 minutes ago, Nomad said:

Let me summerise:

You give metta to difficult people to grow your patience with them.

Because their actions are ego based, unconscious, and evil.

But only with really horrible people like Donald Trump and ISIS members.

However the people around you are usually nice.

But then wait, some political people you work with who are ego based, unconscious and evil, and the news is a drag.  

So now you admit that you're not talking about Donald Trump and ISIS bandits really,  but normal people who are also now unconscious evil and egotistical.

So to be win win for you Donald Trump and ISIS bandits and your (presumably) work colleagues must work on themselves and diminish ego.

Then all of a sudden these people are not upsetting you, you're not upsetting them, they only upset you in the beginning but now you give them metta they dont upset you anymore but still try to drag you into their political games.

I'm a bit confused, I'll be honest

I am giving advice, you asked me questions I gave answers. If people do not upset you, great; I am than not talking to you than.

 

But some people find the people, or situations I gave as upsetting. For those people, try to figure out why, or send them Metta because they are suffering, or because you personally do not want to get caught up in the game.

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, SkyPanther said:

I am giving advice, you asked me questions I gave answers. If people do not upset you, great; I am than not talking to you than.

 

But some people find the people, or situations I gave as upsetting. For those people, try to figure out why, or send them Metta because they are suffering, or because you personally do not want to get caught up in the game.

 

OK

 

[Guest]

 

John Peacock & Stephen Batchelor.  They have some interesting views on Buddhism.  They believe the Buddha teachings were misinterpreted by the Western transcribers, and that the original teaching has nothing to do with the Tibetan system.  Batchelor was both a Zen and Teibetan student.

Let me know your thoughts.