Mystical experiences vs radical recontextualizations

[now is forever]

40 minutes ago, tsuki said:

There is a connection between I=you=we and embodiment.
When 'the other' turns to I=you=we, resistance is transformed to surrender.
Resistance is suffering. Surrender is bliss.

What is the relationship between I=you=we and embodiment?
Is embodiment the phenomenological description of bliss?

i think so... isn’t yoga embodiment, or learning to ride a bike, surfing, playing an instrument? or learning to work with the hands... also sexuality, or just touching someone other. if the body is aligned with the spirit isn’t that embodiment?

and embodiment is also the prana body. 

tsuki you just push me back into the phantasy world. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

32 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Is embodiment the phenomenological description of bliss?

 What else could it be? ?

[now is forever]

@Zweistein i started to listen to it yesterday and remember there was a thread about recontextualizing or integrating eastern symbols more. don’t know if it was about the hero with a thousand faces. also fell asleep halfway. but i see where the dragon slayer came from.

Edited August 7, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

44 minutes ago, now is forever said:

think if we use symbols, and make a tool like a mind map or something to draw on, everyone can put their stage in the different categories, themselves and just know where they are at.

mhhh - i think it might not be unusable but maybe just not yet developed enough.

maybe it’s also possible to colour the symbols...

might be better do develop it digital... but i like to work on the wall so something like a printable mindmap to download would be nice, too. 

 

how are all stages the same? your personal stages or stages of others?

@now is forever

Do you=I=we "realize" how big this project could get? ?

My intuition says: to go from one spiral dynamics stage to the next, one might have to go through one hero's and/or heroine's journey cycle. Could that be true? "I" feel like "I" have gone through the latter many times.

@tsuki

Yes, spiral dynamics feels to "me" like zooming in and out once we "arrive" at I=you=we. Ups, wait - did I just judge "others" with that statement? ? I guess the point is, once I=you=we observe ourselves, I=you=we can see when we fall back into certain stages. ?

Edited August 7, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

@now is forever This lady (video above) has a cute map for her journey.

I'm also wondering about the differences between the hero's and the heroine's journey ;-)
I found this:

and @Emerald wrote a nice summary here about Maureen Murdock's book here:

 

[now is forever]

18 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

@now is forever

Do you=I=we "realize" how big this project could get? ?

My intuition says: to go from one spiral dynamics stage to the next, one might have to go through one hero's and/or heroine's journey cycle. Could that be true? "I" feel like "I" have gone through the latter many times.

mhhh yes, that’s why it would be better if there was a tool. so everyone could handle their own zoo.

i’m sure we are getting confronted with the cycle in different situations.... so it’s difficult to include all possible symbols. but the symbols are something that could be researched by the people themselves. they just have to be found somewhere.

[now is forever]

@Zweistein mhhh there is also a book that’s called women who run with the wolves - think it contains a lot of good stories, too. a friend of mine told me in brazil they read and discuss it in groups.

it basically says every fairytale contains some kind of thread for the subconsciousness to work on inner problems.

sometimes it’s maybe not good to think of these books as hammered in stone. so i can totally understand why you want to work them over.

puhhhh, i’ll let that sink in.

Edited August 7, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

7 minutes ago, now is forever said:

mhhh yes, that’s why it would be better if there was a tool. so everyone could handle their own zoo.

i’m sure we are getting confronted with the cycle in different situations.... so it’s difficult to include all possible symbols. but the symbols are something that could be researched by the people themselves. they just have to be found somewhere.

So, it would be something like an interactive visualization / guide map of how to self-actualize?
oh oh, I can "hear" Leo coming at us with a light saber 

[Zweistein]

3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

@Zweistein mhhh there is also a book that’s called women who run with the wolves - think it contains a lot of good stories, too. a friend of mine told me in brazil they read and discuss it in groups.

sometimes it’s maybe not good to think of these books as hammered in stone. so i can totally understand why you want to work them over.

and back we are in fantasy world, lol... - no, no - this feels way more productive 

[now is forever]

@Zweistein what colour?

[Zweistein]

@now is forever

Turquoise, of course. 
Wait, no - I think he will come as Yoda 

[now is forever]

@Zweistein he would be green then....

?

Edited August 8, 2018 by now is forever
zweistein, we kind of lost it here

[now is forever]

11 hours ago, tsuki said:

@now is forever What do you think about this post in relation to spiral dynamics?
To me, all stages are the same and the model became unusable.

 

if we would use the symbols like a mind map, ( i used to call something like that a cognitive map ) it would not be relevant to know what stage someone is solid in - it would only show what stages someone has to transcend specifically. for example politics - they could figure out where they are indoctrinated in and what they dream it to be. they could mirror that one to any other symbol in lines (maybe in drawing or some kind of stone or magnet etc) and see how that has effects on their body level how they behave at home etc. what that meant to them in their family and if they acted accordingly or if there are paradoxes. 

could also help to find out where they got certain beliefs from, how these beliefs are intertwined with other religions and find new elements for their beliefs.

all to search for new information and then transcend it.

it could be helpful especially for those who faced nothingness.

it would be something like the life game. something like a thread to hold on, something to really put the belief/spirit in relation to everyday life. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by now is forever

[Zweistein]

10 hours ago, now is forever said:

@Zweistein he would be green then....

?

@now is forever yeah, we kind of "lost it there" - will give everyone reading this a good laugh, hopefully 

1 hour ago, now is forever said:

if we would use the symbols like a mind map, ( i used to call something like that a cognitive map ) it would not be relevant to know what stage someone is solid in - it would only show what stages someone has to transcend specifically. for example politics - they could figure out where they are indoctrinated in and what they dream it to be. they could mirror that one to any other symbol in lines (maybe in drawing or some kind of stone or magnet etc) and see how that has effects on their body level how they behave at home etc. what that meant to them in their family and if they acted accordingly or if there are paradoxes. 

could also help to find out where they got certain beliefs from, how these beliefs are intertwined with other religions and find new elements for their beliefs.

all to search for new information and then transcend it.

it could be helpful especially for those who faced nothingness.

it would be something like the life game. something like a thread to hold on, something to really put the belief/spirit in relation to everyday life. 

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if I understand it correctly... but another thing, I have been thinking about: Wouldn't it be most efficient to first make a mindmap for people who are already in stage green?  

[now is forever]

30 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

@now is forever yeah, we kind of "lost it there" - will give everyone reading this a good laugh, hopefully 

Hmm, I'm not quite sure if I understand it correctly... but another thing, I have been thinking about: Wouldn't it be most efficient to first make a mindmap for people who are already in stage green?  

mhhh - that would be something like a mushroom - you only see the mushrooms that stick out their head but the real mushroom is underneath.

someone in yellow could collect mushrooms... and put them into a basket.

maybe that’s more a map for yellow.

mhhhh someone in turquoise would certainly just let them be, and just let them communicate, while always knowing where they are to find.

Edited August 8, 2018 by now is forever

[tsuki]

Aren't we trying to build a ladder to climb somewhere higher?
Wouldn't this be the most poignant lesson for us, builders?
Wouldn't this be the most useful tool for self-actualizers as well?

[now is forever]

@tsuki hahaha yes it’s going up and it’s not going up.... but at least it doesn’t feel meaningless.

[Zweistein]

Hehe, but wouldn't it make sense to go down the stairs first to come up again? 
Wouldn't it be most beneficial for the world, if people currently at stage green would help to educate stages below? 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Zweistein

[now is forever]

@Zweistein well maybe we have to climb a wall first. and maybe we have to change directions if we are at the lowest point or at the highest point but at the end, does it really matter if we go up or down the stairs.... i would prefer going up though. even though it’s maybe more challenging, but we can build some muscles there. going down is for relaxation.

depends on what we see in it...

in some aspects it shouldn’t be a downward spiral. it’s good to realize that.

think it has something to do with emotional mastery - to change directions.

it’s on the sheet, too. so that’s a basic tool i guess. maybe that symbol has to be on one of the stones? could also be a -> that’s pointing up or down.

so we would need to decide, how many stones are there? are there more stones than one or two...

on the sheet they have one for emotional mastery, one for finding inner stillness, how to make a business and how relationships work out.... at da. it’s the same....

did i just spill beans... don’t get it...

Edited August 8, 2018 by now is forever

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Zweistein said:

Hehe, but wouldn't it make sense to go down the stairs first to come up again? 
Wouldn't it be most beneficial for the world, if people currently at stage green would help to educate stages below? 

mhhh yes and no, stage green can also educate yellow and turquoise  - if it’s not solide... because green is body and health and ecological relevant. green needs certainly more space not only in our minds, but also in cities and companies. participative is the best.

Edited August 8, 2018 by now is forever