Hopefully in a Self-Actualized Society we can Understand this

[Revolutionary Think]

  

[marijuanafinder]

Some interesting thoughts.

[Emerald]

I have to say, I mostly disagree. Now, I do think that the school system should run differently, and be more focused toward well-roundedness as opposed to proficiency in the four core subjects. 

But having an educated populace is VERY important for a society, even if it may not seem so to those immersed in a culture with mandatory education for children. In places where children are not educated, there tends to be lots of ignorance and magical thinking. This causes many issues.

For example, in a certain African country (I forget which one), there is a myth about HIV called the "Virgin Cleansing Myth." The idea is that if a man gets HIV, he can cure himself of it if he has sex with a virgin girl. So, because this is widely believed, child and teenage girls are often the targets of rape by men infected with HIV. 

I think the main thing is that people in educated societies get used to their privileges, get jaded, and start playing Devil's Advocate. They start to think the world would be better without the privilege that they've taken for granted.

But my bet is that "Big Vocab" Johnny in the video, wouldn't like it one bit if he suddenly lost all the knowledge that he had gained from his formal education. 

[Revolutionary Think]

@Emerald there are other ways of gaining that knowledge with out being forced. Like he said in the video before the state had total control of the schools there were schools but, they weren't connected to this out of touch mandatory nation wide curriculum that isn't serving many people.  

[RabbitHole]

I've heard this way too many times. For most people this pressure and pushing force is needed. Also life purpose question I think might be the most popular one here, what those people who don't know what they wan't are going to do without school? It atleast gives some ideas, some basic, atleast you have some foundation for your future. Sure It could be way better If schools also taught general knowledge about life, not just theory on certain subjects.

University, college, that's everyone's choice, but highschool education is neccessary for everyone, I would like to see 5 people who went to school until highschool and 5 who didn't go to school at all. For some people school is just distracting them from their purpose and they reach their goals without it, but as bad as It sounds most can't do that on their own. Stop this special snowflake thing, It really makes no sense, If you don't like It, don't live in society, because society has to be based on standards and rules to work. I finished highschool, studying in university, I am totally free to study whatever I wan't and pretty much everyone around me does the same, why? Because It's very rare that you could make decent life without It. There are some people who say that school teaches bullshit and is not needed. What are they doing now? Few of them made their own business, but most? Just working regular slave jobs and blaming everything about their unpleasant life.

It really depends on what you wan't to do, be musician, photographer, artist, have great business idea? Go for It, just remember that even in those cases education would make It way easier. Even most of classmates in university have no idea what they are going to do and now atleast they will have something until they figure It out.  Imagine If they didn't go to school? What kind of life could they sustain?

Some years ago I was that kinda guy who told everyone how school teach us unneccessary stuff, turns us all into robots for corporative industries and destroy authenticity. But I luckily got over this phase, yeah, that's what It's called-phase.

As I see your idea basically is that we will just learn from previous generations. Let's say we used your approach, what are you going to learn from those after 100 years If the previous generation had no school education, but learned from older people? How are even going to sustain basic needs like food and shelters? There is 7 billion people, It all needs to under corporative companies who manage production and logistics, same for construction, not even talking about technologies, good luck learning that without school. I would have a looot more to tell about this, but I will rather go meditate. Peace and love to you, but do rethink your view on this.

[Revolutionary Think]

Take a look at this 

  

[Revolutionary Think]

Einstien also talks about how much he thought school was actually part of the problem https://creativesystemsthinking.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/how-einstein-saw-the-world/  

[david-c]

I think It is impossible to force anyone to earn anything is a bit like trying to force a computer to learn by forcing in a computer disk it dose more damage than good. The ones to watch is professions that claim to do art and sciance and have to be qualified in as this seams to breaches there own integrity contract as there in no such thing as externally regulated art and sciance. Regulated art comes up in art history under dictators and fascists regulated sciance has only been done by the Spanish Inquisition Copernicus world goes round the sun fame. (Trying to figure out what to do about this)?

I think education can be divided in two inventive creative (art and sciance) and repeatable predictable (Technical skills). “The Emyth” say that business run by visionary’s come up with the ideas, managers put thing in order and doers who do the work. They all tend to fight It is a lining these people that gets thing done. I exspect this matches Spiral Dynamics model.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by david-c

[david-c]

 

 

[MarkusSweden]

@Revolutionary Think Yes my friend, it is. It's brainwashing in the most cynical way. Even though no evil one has create it. It happened in an organic evolutionary way though out hundreds of years of school practice. 

Basically, every 'real' life knowledge threatens status quo in society. And threatens power and economical structures. 

So school evolved away from all important knowledge about life/society and trained to become modern slaves without knowing it themselves.   

[Revolutionary Think]

Hi @MarkusSweden are you actually from Sweden? How is the education system there? I am going to be in Stockholm from the 18th of September to the 25th of September. 

[Lorcan]

I intuit that there is a lot of black and white thinking regarding this topic. 

Is school evil? I do not know.

I intuit there is something better than the schooling system we have now. That would require real science. It is much easier however to just assume a position, and assume your position is true, because it makes sense to you. The black and white thinking emerges. It is not a simple matter.

Any fool can take a position, make a counter-argument and then believe they are correct because their own reason appears to have trumped the opponents from their perspective. The counter-argument they make is often a deliberate straw-man( because making a straw-man argument takes a lot less effort to rationally trump)  or an unintentional straw-man (they assume that the opponents argument is something else from what the opponents arguments actually is)

The truth of the matter that I am just a fool and you should not take my word for granted.

School could be better. How better? I do not know. Could it be better? I do not know. I intuit it could be a lot better, because I want it to be.

How can we find out how it could be a lot better? Real science.

It is not a simple, black and white matter.

 

 

The worst enemy in terms of advancing "schooling" in the future is close-minded , black and white thinking, and "I have the correct answer because X,Y,Z strawman/simple argument that beats yours" thinking. The big picture needs to be taken into account. There are a lot factors that influence the development of a human being.

How do we create an optimal learning environment for personal growth? Hmm. Let us run some experiments.

Hmmm. Is my thinking flawed? Do we even need a schooling enviroment for optimal learning? Hmmm, lets do some experiments.

Hmmm. Where am I full of shit in my thinking. Hmm

 

 

 

[Revolutionary Think]

@Lorcan One size doesn't fit all it shouldn't be one way across the board. If this form of education system serves some kids they are more than welcome to stay in it with out any changes. All the ones though that it ruins there lives and leaves behind it's unjust for them not to have another option. 

[Lorcan]

17 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

@Lorcan One size doesn't fit all it shouldn't be one way across the board. If this form of education system serves some kids they are more than welcome to stay in it with out any changes. All the ones though that it ruins there lives and leaves behind it's unjust for them not to have another option. 

 I think Leo's video on ideology is a great pointer on how one might go about making a higher consciousness education system.

We have to make it non ideological.

A quick little half baked inquiry. (Without going in-depth)

How do humans communicate? Language. We will teach the young the native language. At a young age we sort of just have to force them to comply. Basic math, those used most commonly in everyday life for quantifying will also be taught to the young.

 What is needed to sustain a human being? Food and Water. So we will teach them how to create sustainable sources of food and water of the healthiest kind. So that the food and water benefit the consumer, the plant itself, and the environment which the plant is in, and same with the animals if they are raised, they will be raised with love,care shown affection allowed to live happy lives. We will also teach them survival skills.

How does one go about thriving in the world's modern economys? Business. What do you need to provide value to others? Skills. How does one acquire skills? Through the intake of knowledge and the application of the teachings. So schools will be grand library's ,archives and various gymnasiums/training grounds. Filled with masterful teachers. There will be an emphasis on stage greenish and above type business. Win-win-win situations.

There will be no classrooms. There will be no rows of students sitting in chairs. There will only be a sage/master, and those who choose to come to listen or take instruction. There will be no "scored" tests, there will be no certifications.

What is a primal thing almost all human enjoy? Sex. We will teach them how to go about attracting the opposite sex. The masculine and the feminine. Open markets and festivals will happen often.

I'll add to this later.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Lorcan

[d0ornokey]

stage yellow would say that the whole problem isnt just the education system and there's probably 5+ factors that contribute 

[Revolutionary Think]

@Lorcan although... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality  

[Lorcan]

13 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

@Lorcan although... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality  

Yes I am aware of this. I'll add to the post now.

15 hours ago, d0ornokey said:

stage yellow would say that the whole problem isnt just the education system and there's probably 5+ factors that contribute 

It is more like infinite factors! All of them just varying in importance from the other.

[CreamCat]

I think allowing unschooling for experiments is a good idea.

Why do you not compare results of compulsory schooling and those of unschooling?

In texas, unschooling is legally allowed.

Doing science on unschooling vs compulsory schooling is going to reveal a lot of information that will help make decisions.

It is a good topic for scientific research.

Actually putting your assumptions up to test will help dismantle your ideologies.

Edited August 23, 2018 by CreamCat

[Lorcan]

8 hours ago, CreamCat said:

 

Why do you not compare results of compulsory schooling and those of unschooling?

 

In terms of real science.

It all depends on what the results you are "looking" for. In terms of test scores. I would assume traditional school will get higher scores, because the whole school system is made around getting points for tests.

There must be no agenda.