So what happens now?

[Victor Mgazi]

Hey @Faceless may i try an empirical investigation with you if you will? I would really like to see how it works out. 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@WelcometoReality i don't believe it's finished, otherwise i wouldn't be asking for your help which I'm grateful for by the way. 

 So what happens now? That question, where does it come from? What wants to know what happens?

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Victor Mgazi said:

Hey @Faceless may i try an empirical investigation with you if you will? I would really like to see how it works out. 

That seems like it might be quite futile as well. Best thing to do is to apply all ones energy to observing the movement of thought as a holistic understanding to start with. 

This all must be observed in oneself. Plus it’s quite interesting indeed. All these words in which I am pointing at, are to that which cannot be put in words. The words are never what is being described... Never believe or disbelieve anyone, especially me. We have to see for ourselves. 

This kind of exploration must be explored with a suspension of ones own bias-preconceived conclusions. So ones own experience, knowledge, will ultimately distort the investigation. This is why I say to expire thought-self in depth, So we see that fact. 

“Empirical investigation”, will get you nowhere in this exploration. ?

I would start with investigation of the relationship between self, thought, experience,knowledge, memory, psychological time. If You understand the whole movement of that, which is one and the same movement of (time), then you will be able to go on from there. 

Plus it’s quite interesting to put tnall together in a much more holistic understanding. You will be amazed the kind of action that follows simultaneously with that holistic understanding. 

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Faceless

[Victor Mgazi]

@FacelessFaceless I see what you mean. OK then. 

[tsuki]

@Faceless I just wanted to let you know that your language has improved drastically over the last few months, friend. Keep up the great work ?

[Victor Mgazi]

Enlightenment is not something to be attained, it has no cause so really any method will lead you there. 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Mikael89 seems like it, in my opinion. Don't know much about the man. 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Mikael89 when I say hell, I simply mean not at peace, like how every seeker is not at peace. 

His advice to everybody displays his state of mind or mind set about enlightenment. The way he talks about the ego in his video. He makes it seem like it's an adversary and it is something to be conquered. His ideas of how enlightened beings stay silent? I don't know but that seems rather enslaving. Rules fall away once liberated, and there's awareness of infinite freedom. It's unbounded in every direction and especially from concepts about enlightenment. What is IS and will forever be. There's no suppression or excluding the ego, it can't cease to exist but it transcends. Of course there is no knowing whether or not you enlightened but only because there's no person to acknowledge such a phenomenon. Enlightenment doesn't need you in order for it to be. You refer to these people as masters but in reality nobody has mastered or is mastering anything, there's no person here, just infinite intelligence. 

But this is not a judgment or anything like that. Like I said, it's a mere opinion from my view. You may believe in what you wish to believe in,  nothing is denied or rejected. 

 

[Faceless]

@tsuki thank you buddy

Just seems to improve by mere repetition. In this area of (practicality) I feel cultivation is a necessity. 

Although I wouldn’t say it is something I am consciously motivated to improve, the simple act of continuous application (posting on these forum threads) makes for a the improvement in and of itself. 

Anyway thanks again, friend??

 

[SoonHei]

On 7/19/2018 at 3:17 PM, robdl said:

the "I" = the accumulated experience, memory, belief, and so on = all born of thought

seeking = desire = thought

"truth" = the ending of thought to allow for what-is

I seek the truth =  thought using thought to end thought :lol:

How's that for a self-feeding loop? No meaning whatsoever indeed.

thought using thought to end thought

Bravo!

[Faceless]

54 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

thought using thought to end thought

 

Time trying to use time to end time. 

Fear moving in accordance to itself, to end itself. Fear(time-thought) trying to end itself by employing that very movement of time-thought-fear....endless loop indeed⭕️

THE ULTIMATE CONTRADICTION 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Faceless

[SoonHei]

@Faceless hmmmm, contradiction, sure...

 

but if u think about it... is it still not somehow... going from a "seemingly unfavorable" state to a "seemingly favorable" state?

 

but as you say, it's endless loop... so that means that the favorable state, although maybe achieved, will pass and may again be substituted by an unfavorable state or rather maybe even become unfavorable itself

 

 

lol. i just re-read what i wrote... unsure what i am saying here, but yeah, i think i have said what i was trying to say

 

it's meant to be after-all

 

even this: iwoefiow woeifjwoeifj05 34903409t 340t 34tivmskda ogro g [po wef 39 fjwe 4kklvsdkfpwe jfiwejffp lq[ofkeqfoweo

[robdl]

 

21 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

@Faceless hmmmm, contradiction, sure...

 

but if u think about it... is it still not somehow... going from a "seemingly unfavorable" state to a "seemingly favorable" state?

 

let's say one is in a state of powerlessness, and out of that comes fear/insecurity, and a desire for power.  one attains power, but then clings to it, protects the power, fears the loss of it, paranoia sets in --- breeding fear/insecurity again.  

A totalitarian leader really exemplifies this reactive nature of desire-fear.

Edited July 30, 2018 by robdl

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, robdl said:

powerlessness

Or discontent

11 minutes ago, robdl said:

and a desire for power

Escape from discontentedness

11 minutes ago, robdl said:

one attains power, but then clings to it, protects the power, fears the loss of it, paranoia sets in --- breeding fear/insecurity again.  

Then Experiences a sense of satisfaction, but becomes scared because then the fact seen that it will not last, (sees its impermanence)...

which as @robdl says breeds fear and insecurity indeed. 

To seek pleasure, (satisfaction), to escape (dissatisfaction), is fear attempting  to escape itself which in itself breeds further insecurity-dissatisfaction. 

Any attempt to seek security in thought,(pleasure), inevitably nourishes insecurity and perpetuates this movement of fear. Pleasure is one and the same movement of pain-conflict-suffering. 

 

[Faceless]

33 minutes ago, robdl said:

A totalitarian leader really exemplifies this reactive nature of desire-fear.

All the attempts to bring about psychological security in oneself, only contributes to physical insecurity in relationship when it comes to society/world. 

This causes disorder in relationship between man-woman, and disorder in the relationship between man-woman and environment. 

Seeking psychological security causes psychological and physical insecurity. We destroy our own security by seeking it through the illusion of psychological time. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

Just now, Faceless said:

Or discontent

Escape from discontentedness

Then Experiences a sense of satisfaction, but becomes scared because then the fact seen that it will not last, (sees its impermanence)...

which as @robdl says breeds fear and insecurity indeed. 

 

 

Right, results in the fear/insecurity to maintain the existing power/contentment to cling to pleasure, or the seeking of more power/contentment to address the fading satisfaction/pleasure of the existing power/contentment. 

[Faceless]

Just now, robdl said:

Right, results in the fear/insecurity to maintain the existing power/contentment to cling to pleasure, or the seeking of more power/contentment to address the fading satisfaction/pleasure of the existing power/contentment. 

⭕️

? = Hell 

?

[robdl]

3 minutes ago, Faceless said:

All the attempts to bring about psychological security in oneself, only contributes to physical insecurity in relationship when it comes to society/world. 

This causes disorder in relation between man-woman, and disorder in the relationship between man-woman and environment. 

Seeking psychological security causes psychological and physical insecurity. We destroy our own security by seeking it through the illusion of psychological time. 

This is why ambition can be perilous to oneself and to others, depending on the nature/extent of it.  Not of the ambition to learn a new language, or to learn a musical instrument, but the deeper, more psychological ambition.

[Jack River]

On 7/19/2018 at 0:17 PM, robdl said:

the "I" = the accumulated experience, memory, belief, and so on = all born of thought

seeking = desire = thought

"truth" = the ending of thought to allow for what-is

I seek the truth =  thought using thought to end thought :lol:

How's that for a self-feeding loop? No meaning whatsoever indeed.

 

6 hours ago, SoonHei said:

thought using thought to end thought

Bravo!

 

6 hours ago, Faceless said:

Time trying to use time to end time. 

Fear moving in accordance to itself, to end itself. Fear(time-thought) trying to end itself by employing that very movement of time-thought-fear....endless loop indeed⭕️

THE ULTIMATE CONTRADICTION 

 

5 hours ago, robdl said:

 

let's say one is in a state of powerlessness, and out of that comes fear/insecurity, and a desire for power.  one attains power, but then clings to it, protects the power, fears the loss of it, paranoia sets in --- breeding fear/insecurity again.  

A totalitarian leader really exemplifies this reactive nature of desire-fear.

 

5 hours ago, Faceless said:

Or discontent

Escape from discontentedness

Then Experiences a sense of satisfaction, but becomes scared because then the fact seen that it will not last, (sees its impermanence)...

which as @robdl says breeds fear and insecurity indeed. 

To seek pleasure, (satisfaction), to escape (dissatisfaction), is fear attempting  to escape itself which in itself breeds further insecurity-dissatisfaction. 

Any attempt to seek security in thought,(pleasure), inevitably nourishes insecurity and perpetuates this movement of fear. Pleasure is one and the same movement of pain-conflict-suffering. 

 

 

5 hours ago, robdl said:

Right, results in the fear/insecurity to maintain the existing power/contentment to cling to pleasure, or the seeking of more power/contentment to address the fading satisfaction/pleasure of the existing power/contentment. 

Goldmine!!! 

Like reading a manual to my own mind dudes.

[Faceless]

Mind does not belong to you, “you” belong to it. It’s not your mind , or my mind, but “the mind”