Enlightenment is not an "experience"?

[isabel]

What do people mean when they say things like "enlightenment is not an experience" and that "it can't be known by the mind" and so on?

At first I thought you would feel something in your body that is beyond thought but then that would be an experience.

And if you do have some sort of enlightenment that is both beyond the mind/thoughts and body/feelings then how would you even know that you had it? omg

Help, thank you!

[astrokeen]

@isabel , great question!

Yes, how would you know you are enlightened, or know anything for that matter is not through the mind. Even if you entered a state of  'knowing' which was separate from your physical mind, you would return to the physical and know it or evaluate it using the mind. While you have this body, the mind is inescapable. 

Would like to hear from the enlightened on this.

[Leo Gura]

Being is prior to knowledge.

Turns out that knowledge is actually impossible.

You cannot know anything because the thing you are using to accomplish the knowing is itself unknowable.

It's like you're trying to use a knife to cut itself.

[DocHoliday]

Yeah, "being" it is just such a perfect, spot-on and beautiful description... if one can get behind what that really means and entails

Let's put it like this: you will automatically get to "being" when you tried every other way of trying to understand it, believe it or somehow "feel it" as a particular sort of emotional state. In a sense it's very very simple but impossible to describe. Break down your ego and you will see... 

Edited July 17, 2018 by DocHoliday
Reason for Edit: Grammar

[DocHoliday]

1 hour ago, isabel said:

And if you do have some sort of enlightenment that is both beyond the mind/thoughts and body/feelings then how would you even know that you had it? omg

That's the beauty behind it: you don't know it, you are it. You literally become IT. Tat Tvam Asi - you're it. And what is IT? Well, choose your preferred description: everything, reality, the universe, God, The Creation, No-thing-ness, The Absolutely Relative, The Relatively Absolute etc. etc...

[Leo Gura]

Experience does not actually exist. What you presently call "my experience" is actually Absolute Infinity. But the ego cannot see this because it believes that you were actually born. The ego is misinterpreting being as experience because of its selfishness.

The ego is a giant ball of concepts which includes the concept "me", "my life", "my experience", etc. All of that falls away with the collapse of the ego such that only raw being remains. Life ceases to belong to you. You realize that your birth is just an idea. It never actually happened. You were not born physically, you are born conceptually.

"I was born physically" << that's your conceptual birth!

Wakey wakey

[SoonHei]

@DocHoliday

 

question. you know it is said, there is only ONE being. experieincing itself in various forms

 

so when a human takes DMT for example and encounters all those different higher dimensional beings or machine elfs , whatever else they may encounter... those entities are also part of this reality/illusion or is that another reality?

 

and do those higher level state beings we see, have a "life" of their own which they experience... and if they do, are they awoken? is that why they exist at a very higher / jolly / happy state and their world is just totally phenomenal and ineffable for us?

[Prabhaker]

6 hours ago, isabel said:

And if you do have some sort of enlightenment that is both beyond the mind/thoughts and body/feelings then how would you even know that you had it? omg

" When the observer becomes the observed, know that you have arrived. ~ Jiddu Krishnamurti 

[DocHoliday]

@SoonHei Well, I can’t exactly tell  because I haven’t yet had any experience with psychedelics.

What I can say for certain through is that there are no separate or different realities that somehow happen „outside“ of this one. Everything is consciousness so the only question is whether or not someone can access a particular level or degree of consciousness that will then reveal to him all these fantastical and seemingly „outerwordly“ things. But yes, it’s all one, we are infinite consciousness experiencing itself, always, directly, because consciousness is always experiencing itself anyway, since there is no you required to experience it, just as Leo said:)

Believing that you are an external observer is the grand illusion/delusion because there could never ever be something that is external or separate from consciousness - that would have to mean that it simply doesn’t exist. It’s an impossibility.  

[SoonHei]

6 hours ago, DocHoliday said:

@SoonHei Well, I can’t exactly tell  because I haven’t yet had any experience with psychedelics.

What I can say for certain through is that there are no separate or different realities that somehow happen „outside“ of this one. Everything is consciousness so the only question is whether or not someone can access a particular level or degree of consciousness that will then reveal to him all these fantastical and seemingly „outerwordly“ things. But yes, it’s all one, we are infinite consciousness experiencing itself, always, directly, because consciousness is always experiencing itself anyway, since there is no you required to experience it, just as Leo said:)

Believing that you are an external observer is the grand illusion/delusion because there could never ever be something that is external or separate from consciousness - that would have to mean that it simply doesn’t exist. It’s an impossibility.  

hmmm

 

so in a way then each of those different realities do exist and a part of the infinite IS experiencing that experiencing right now / simultaneously

 

God = a single being having access to infinite experiences and viewing/knowing/observing them all simultaneously (all without time i.e. past, present, future - all possibilities actualized simultaneously) 

[DocHoliday]

@SoonHei Swap the “single being” out for “an infinite being” and then it’s a relatively firm definition. Even though there is nothing to ~have access to~ since everything is already unified and there. But that’s linguistic minutia, completely irrelevant compared to the actual Enlightenment that one might go through sooner or later:) 

Edited July 18, 2018 by DocHoliday

[SoonHei]

@DocHoliday thank for you the clarification

 

and love the fact that it's always "sooner or later" with enlightment so it's inevitable... but could also mean i gotta wait 23,322 lifetimes before i get mine

 

anywho... YOLOish  

[Dodo]

One of my favourite things to say these days:
Psychologists think they know everything, Spiritual beings know they know nothing. 

[isabel]

This is amazing, I'm getting a little overwhelmed...

I was going to thank you all for the info but then I thought "Who am I thanking?" and it seems like now that I'm just sitting here talking to myself...lol

Do you ever get that feeling? What do you think of that?

 

[SoonHei]

33 minutes ago, isabel said:

This is amazing, I'm getting a little overwhelmed...

I was going to thank you all for the info but then I thought "Who am I thanking?" and it seems like now that I'm just sitting here talking to myself...lol

Do you ever get that feeling? What do you think of that?

 

i have recently stopped saying "thank you" on this forum lol

 

and instead just say thanks  

[DocHoliday]

@isabel Right on..!

[cetus]

1 hour ago, SoonHei said:

i have recently stopped saying "thank you" on this forum lol

 

and instead just say thanks  

@SoonHei  You can leave out the "sir" part too. Think of me more as a mode of energy expressing itself within consciousness as cetus56. 

 

[SoonHei]

@cetus56 love it 

 

thanks

bless

#energyLove