The Cult of Sadhguru and Isha Foundation

[Faceless]

21 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

.. It is called Amygdala hijack:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala_hijack

Sure...fear distorts rational response. A defensive measure to maintain a certain degree of psychological security. 

Wasn’t aware of the Amygdala hijack info. Interestingly matches up to internal observation in the self-thought. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Faceless

[Amit]

@Shanmugam thank you brother for your videos.. just awesome stuff!

[Shanmugam]

10 hours ago, Amit said:

@Shanmugam thank you brother for your videos.. just awesome stuff!

You are welcome.. 

[Prabhaker]

 

[Key Elements]

On 24/07/2018 at 9:53 AM, Shanmugam said:

I clearly told you that I am aware of the political situation in Tamil Nadu and I doubt if anyone else here is even aware of it.. He has made many comments recently in the media which clearly revealed that his intentions do not seem to be what he claims them to be.  

This part is interesting. I didn't read the whole thread, but wanted to share something. When I got back to the US from Hyderabad, a friend who had just arrived from Hyderabad sat down with me for lunch. I took a chance in talking about enlightenment with him and warned him to be open-minded about it. You know, how "woo-woo" the conversation may turn out, right?  I was concerned. But, to my surprise, he knew about it!  So, my intuition was right in telling him. However, the moment I mentioned Sadhguru, he told me not to look at him anymore. He told me that he was not a real guru. I was quite surprised! I wondered why. But, he didn't have time to explain, and left.

[John Iverson]

24 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

This part is interesting. I didn't read the whole thread, but wanted to share something. When I got back to the US from Hyderabad, a friend who had just arrived from Hyderabad sat down with me for lunch. I took a chance in talking about enlightenment with him and warned him to be open-minded about it. You know, how "woo-woo" the conversation may turn out, right?  I was concerned. But, to my surprise, he knew about it!  So, my intuition was right in telling him. However, the moment I mentioned Sadhguru, he told me not to look at him anymore. He told me that he was not a real guru. I was quite surprised! I wondered why. But, he didn't have time to explain, and left.

It is up to your intuition also, if you feel Sadhguru's presense then it is something.. to have that kind of feeling in his presense needs to be worked out very hard.. the people who believe in him is many, to have that you must be something... it is also not accidental that he has so many people around him and love him! You can say whatever your mind identify to other person whether it is a positive or negative but you cannot hide the something in him that could for example oxford university and harvard university  invites him for a talk ,...  

[Key Elements]

40 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

It is up to your intuition also, if you feel Sadhguru's presense then it is something.. to have that kind of feeling in his presense needs to be worked out very hard.. the people who believe in him is many, to have that you must be something... it is also not accidental that he has so many people around him and love him! You can say whatever your mind identify to other person whether it is a positive or negative but you cannot hide the something in him that could for example oxford university and harvard university  invites him for a talk ,...  

I was only sharing with Shanmugam what happened when I had that lunch with a friend. I don't know Sadhguru well. To me, a "guru" doesn't have to be invited to prestigious universities or be famous. That doesn't matter to me. What matters is, can he/she teach someone to be a great person and how well are the lessons taught? And, the "guru" cannot be a hypocrite--you know, practice what you preach.

[John Iverson]

1 hour ago, Key Elements said:

I was only sharing with Shanmugam what happened when I had that lunch with a friend. I don't know Sadhguru well. To me, a "guru" doesn't have to be invited to prestigious universities or be famous. That doesn't matter to me. What matters is, can he/she teach someone to be a great person and how well are the lessons taught? And, the "guru" cannot be a hypocrite--you know, practice what you preach.

No matter how someone did a greatest things in the humanity, some people will throw you a rocks, no matter how sadhguru for example do the impossible things for us to be saved, still some will judge him as a hypocrite and say something negative towards Sadhguru...  even Jesus Christ suffered to that, he make himself nailed in the cross for you to see that he loves you but even his apostle Betrayed him! In his time many people are saved by Jesus Christ, by making a miracle, a blind man become a seer, but when he needs to be save no one do the act of saving him in the cross... can you see how mind games work here? You cannot see the essense of Sadhguru if your mind is still there, if you don't feel someone it is better to be silence, and find a guru that suits you, 

I really feel the vibes whenever i read and whenever i understand what he is pointing, i see the moon not his finger,.. what he is trying to communicate here comes from a authentic experience of him.. 

[Key Elements]

3 hours ago, John Iverson said:

No matter how someone did a greatest things in the humanity, some people will throw you a rocks, no matter how sadhguru for example do the impossible things for us to be saved, still some will judge him as a hypocrite and say something negative towards Sadhguru...  even Jesus Christ suffered to that, he make himself nailed in the cross for you to see that he loves you but even his apostle Betrayed him! In his time many people are saved by Jesus Christ, by making a miracle, a blind man become a seer, but when he needs to be save no one do the act of saving him in the cross... can you see how mind games work here? You cannot see the essense of Sadhguru if your mind is still there, if you don't feel someone it is better to be silence, and find a guru that suits you, 

I really feel the vibes whenever i read and whenever i understand what he is pointing, i see the moon not his finger,.. what he is trying to communicate here comes from a authentic experience of him.. 

Then, good, you could continue to learn with him. Who's stopping you? I think Shanmugam has a valid point too. He doesn't have to remain silent. I know that sometimes India has been effected and scammed by fake gurus historically and just because the guru is nice and famous, doesn't mean someone has to keep silence. Like I said, I don't know much about Sadhguru. I didn't check him out much yet, but I do wonder why that friend said that. To me, that friend is smart and politically involved, and very much aware.

Ok. I already said to you what I have to say. I made myself clear. I'm not going to elaborate on this anymore because it will only get out of context.

[John Iverson]

24 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Then, good, you could continue to learn with him. Who's stopping you? I think Shanmugam has a valid point too. He doesn't have to remain silent. I know that sometimes India has been effected and scammed by fake gurus historically and just because the guru is nice and famous, doesn't mean someone has to keep silence. Like I said, I don't know much about Sadhguru. I didn't check him out much yet, but I do wonder why that friend said that. To me, that friend is smart and politically involved, and very much aware.

My point here is this is also sneaky move of the mind.. Even Leo take Sadhguru's Initiation... why do you think Leo will come to Sadhguru just to take his Initiation? In San Diego,... Leo is not just smart, he is intelligent and, meticulous to what things he will intake, after the initiation he doesn't say anything negative that oh that is bulshit, but he said in the other post in this forum that that Initiation help him somehow to grow I don't remember if in yoga or in meditation, I don't remember, the thing is the mind can hinders you to go on the journey with the help of other... you know what talking about someone like this is a waste of time,.. talking about someone that you reject is nonsense.. talking about someone that you praise doesn't make you grow.. we can be more motivated and inspired that should we talk about! We need motivation and inspiration to keep doing what we do... 

[Faceless]

5 minutes ago, John Iverson said:

We need motivation and inspiration to keep doing what we do.

Why is that? 

 Very interesting indeed. 

Sorry off topic. I just found that last sentence particularly interesting. 

[Key Elements]

@John Iverson I think we're getting off-topic. I already shared everything I know. I'm not into any one guru. For me, if the message of enlightenment, for example, gets passed on, and the person understands it with the experience, that's it; then it's time for a profound life purpose. Personally, that friend who I had lunch with is someone I have to trust, in business. So, whatever he said does have some impact. However, that's a personal matter. I don't want to get into it.

[Key Elements]

I'm just going to be a little bold and express some thoughts here that came up after going through this thread. It's easy to find stage blue environments anywhere in the world. It's like going to a party where the ppl are not really enjoying the party but come up to you and small talk with you about your "religion" or your "race" or even ask you about your "caste." They have 20 "nosy/curious" questions to ask, and expect you to have an answer. It's like you have to belong to some group, right? They expect that to be your identity, and they think they know you based on that. How does this make you feel? Uncomfortable, right? No? Then, maybe you're partly stage blue? Some ppl in the world do choose their friends like this and even their spouses.

In other words, if a guru preaches nationalism or even cracks nationalistic jokes, seekers who blindly follow him will also do the same. He may even do this in subtle ways and many seekers may mimic him. If you go to his temple, monestary, or ashram, you will probably encounter this type of "party" environment if you don't fit the stereotypical, "nationalistic" profile. Here's an example. In India, if you have a "Christian" name, like "John," many ppl in stage blue will automatically assume you're a Christian. This is mainly an internal assumption. Same goes for Hindus and Muslims. I'm talking about stage blue ppl and environments. If you want to see and experience stage yellow, good luck. It's rare. The thing to do is become at least stage yellow and make friends in at least stage yellow.

 

[Prabhaker]

Words of wisdom from Sadhguru

 

[Key Elements]

12 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Words of wisdom from Sadhguru

 

This is a very interesting and a very complex clip. I'd like to comment on it.

I agree with the first half of the clip. It basically relates to the saying, "Those who fail to understand history are bound to repeat it." In other words, it's important to understand history without judging it too much and make wise choices.

The second half I don't agree with. Of course, if you take away the police from big cities like New York, within 3 hrs, lots of crime will happen. It's obvious. The same is true for big cities like New Delhi and Mumbai. Crimes are very high there, esp. New Delhi. It's not a good comparison. It's very, very complicated to compare cities and countries across the world. You could read many books on it and watch as many videos on it, and you still won't get it. Imo, the best thing to do is to travel there, live there for decades, become Indian, and transend both cultures. Then, you'll understand. Don't be afraid to step outside of your own backyard. If you remove all the police from Hopkinsville, KY, for example, it's not the same as removing them from LA.

[Shanmugam]

15 hours ago, Key Elements said:

This is a very interesting and a very complex clip. I'd like to comment on it.

I agree with the first half of the clip. It basically relates to the saying, "Those who fail to understand history are bound to repeat it." In other words, it's important to understand history without judging it too much and make wise choices.

The second half I don't agree with. Of course, if you take away the police from big cities like New York, within 3 hrs, lots of crime will happen. It's obvious. The same is true for big cities like New Delhi and Mumbai. Crimes are very high there, esp. New Delhi. It's not a good comparison. It's very, very complicated to compare cities and countries across the world. You could read many books on it and watch as many videos on it, and you still won't get it. Imo, the best thing to do is to travel there, live there for decades, become Indian, and transend both cultures. Then, you'll understand. Don't be afraid to step outside of your own backyard. If you remove all the police from Hopkinsville, KY, for example, it's not the same as removing them from LA.

I watched the first 30 minutes of the video.. So far, I found Kangana Ranaut (the woman in the program) sounding more spiritual than Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev himself.. She seems to see any kind of identification with nation, race, religion etc as the source of hatred. But throughout the talk, Sadhguru is insisting that India is the best country in the world. I really don't agree with this over-promotion of India. Because, in an attempt to glorify India he says incorrect things about India, and even over exaggerating. For eg, In one video he said that Darwin's evolutionary theory was stated by Indians 15,000 years before.. He used the 10 avatar concept as a symbolic representation of Darwin's theory. But in reality, 10 avatars are cherry picked and rearranged version of an original 24 avatar concept. This 24 avatar concept is in a totally different order. It was only later, especially after Darwin's time, the 10 avatar concept was born. Without knowing this, Sadhguru even went ahead and said that 'adiyogi' said Darwin's evolution theory 15,000 years before.. I have written about it here: http://qr.ae/TUI6vM

I had already questioned his version of adiyogi story. His comments on evolution theory seems to indicate that this adiyogi story was his own creation. (There is indeed a concept of adiyogi in our tradition; but that is a lot different from and simple than the sadhguru's version). In the last 200 years, many people are known to invent such things to glorify India and most of them are baseless. They just take an ambiguous verse from a scripture out of context and interpret that in a way that suits their intention. Since I know basic Sanskrit myself, I can say that such interpretations are actually very funny. Sadhguru seems to be more supportive of the political party that is ruling our country, which also supports the ideology that Indians are better than the rest of the world. 

[Prabhaker]

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

Sadhguru is insisting that India is the best country in the world

@Shanmugam  Do you agree that if he speaks like Osho , it will become difficult for him to survive in India ?

PLEASE FORGIVE THE POOR INDIANS. They don t have anything else to brag about. You can brag about other things: money, power, atomic or hydrogen bombs, airplanes, that you have walked on the moon, that you have penetrated to the very secrets of life, your science, technology; you can brag about your affluence. Poor India has nothing else to brag about; it can only brag about something invisible so there is no need to prove it. Spirituality is such a thing you can brag about it and nobody can prove it, nobody can disprove it.

For thousands of years India has suffered starvation, poverty, so much so that it has to rationalize it. It has rationalized it so that to be poor is something spiritual. The Indian spiritual man renounces all comforts and becomes poor. When he becomes poor, only then do Indians recognize him as spiritual. If he does not become poor, how can he be spiritual?

Poverty has become the very foundation of Indian spirituality. The more poor you are, the more spiritual you are. Even if you are unhealthy, that is good for being spiritual; that shows your antagonism towards the body. Torture your body, fast, don't eat, don't fulfill the needs of the body, and you are doing some spiritual work.

So you will look at Indian so-called spiritual saints and many of them will look physically ill, in deep suffering, in self-torture; their faces are pale because of fasting. But if you ask their disciples they will say, "Look, what a golden aura around the face of our saint!" I know such people -- just a feverish aura around their faces, nothing else! But their disciples will say, "A golden aura -- this is spirituality!"

~Osho

[Shanmugam]

2 minutes ago, Prabhaker said:

@Shanmugam  Do you agree that if he speaks like Osho , it will become difficult for him to survive in India ?

 

yes...

[Key Elements]

6 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

@Shanmugam  Do you agree that if he speaks like Osho , it will become difficult for him to survive in India ?

 

6 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

yes...

Good question and good points. The next step is to become an entrepreneur guru, like Baba Ramdev or Sai Baba, without being corrupt. I'm not sure how open Sadhguru is to that and if it's going to work out like that.  And then, he could start speaking differently, and not in stage blue glory.  It's hard to get past the corrupt orange corporation. Society cannot be orange otherwise the orange ppl appointed will run the show. It's best to promote true spirituality, which has to be done in a very tactful way to uplift society. Which is why, if you realize this, it starts with you. Probably, they don't realize. Even Baba Ramdev may not realize because he keeps emphasizing that he likes his "mother tongue." Nothing wrong with speaking any language, but he keeps emphasizing. Heck, I even saw Baba Ramdev and Sadhguru speaking together, and Ramdev seems like he's feeling proud saying this.

The question is, how can I earn, support myself and my family, and promote true spirituality? Monk/guru/sage may not be your niche. That's why one has to find the niche and promote through that way. That's why they call it your calling (life purpose), with startup to entrepreneurship features. 

[Prabhaker]

10 hours ago, Key Elements said:

The question is, how can I earn, support myself and my family, and promote true spirituality?

Jesus said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."