Why would anyone want enlightenment?

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, ajasatya said:

very few people are blessed with the huge amount of true emotional suffering that's needed.

May God bless you all with great suffering.

And if God should fail, I believe they have spots open in North Korea. You could just like buy a ticket and stroll across the border.

[Ananta]

@Leo Gura ?

[Prabhaker]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

May God bless you all with great suffering.

And if God should fail, I believe they have spots open in North Korea.

India is a hell on earth and there are many enlightened persons and Gurus in India (which are not available in North Korea), who can teach you how get enlightened when you a living in a hell.

India: Hell on Earth https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/07/22/india-hell-on-earth/

[Victor Mgazi]

@Mikael89 yes you are right! 

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

You are also trying to teach, so your words are no better than their words. They also want people to get enlightened, just like you.

There can't be any better or worse words with this, at the end they all are what they are - words. 

3 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

If I speak then the absolute speaks

But would there be meaning in that communication? When I say it doesn't speak I mean the absolute won't be like hi there, I'm the absolute, I'm nothing so therefore I'm everything and I have infinite intelligence so it is perfectly reasonable for me to be here...blah...blah...blah lol ? 

"There are many teachers who say that this phenomenal world is a play, a show. I could find 200 quotes for that too but do I really have to dig them up?"

Yes and some say it's a dream or a story, yeah the list goes on but what I'm trying to say here is that although these concepts exist, they exist of the absolute not for the absolute. The absolute doesn't need a story or a rationalized idea for it to be. It is what it is. 

3 hours ago, Anna1 said:

Oh boy ?, don't be the personal pronoun police, language is dualistic.

Trust me, that's the last thing I want. Just ask your self why do you have to state that, "I am consciousness" If you had awakened you would be at peace. Seriously, who or what are you addressing when you say that. Nothing is hidden here. I can easily say things that are pleasing for the ego but what would be the point. 

I honestly love you guys 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Mikael89 I'm not at peace and I don't want to be at peace or atleast not yet. I like all the pain and pleasure associated in this reality. 

I'm addressing nothing but myself - the universe. But only this will make sense if you remove the person. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Justin Evans said:

The lesson I learned was that the costs of seeking truth are immense, but the rewards are the of the greatest yields in life.

No, no, no. You don't get it. This is what I'm trying to warn you about. There are no rewards with enlightenment. Even the Buddha said there is nothing to gain. You have to let go of everything. When you reach enlightenment, you're dead. Can you not see how silly it is to expect 'the greatest yields in life'? This is your ego interpreting enlightenment as some kind of ego paradise. You won't care about greatest yields anymore, admittedly, but you won't care about anything else either. I think the problem is people don't understand what letting go of attachments means. It means nothing matters anymore, the world may as well not exist at all.

(couldn't resist one last message before I go away. Now, it'll be monday before I can reply to any messages)

Edited July 18, 2018 by Stretch

[tsuki]

14 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

It's weird that some say enlightenment is just a simple realization about Truth. And some say it's a incredible thing, like you do. I don't think I will ever reach that level of enlightenment, not sure if such a level even exists, maybe those who experience it are just insane.

@Mikael89 The fact that it is a simple realization does not diminish its value as something incredible.
This realization is so simple, that you can listen to your mother scolding you for not doing your bed and become enlightened.
You can listen to the sounds of the forest and get it. It is so basic and simple that the fact that everybody seems to miss it is the most incredible thing.

What I was referring to when I said that no description can amount to what is revealed is the fact that enlightenment has something to do with escaping description. With making yourself perpetually confused (in a sense) by making meaning balanced. Balanced in a sense that all perceptions occur in one field in which phenomena are not ordered with respect to significance. Everything is equal (in equilibrium).

Words/stories about enlightenment are a double-edged sword, as they are heavily imbalanced with respect to significance. We tend to treat them as primary phenomena. It can be useful however, when the effect of the words is equalizing. For example, deconstruction/self-inquiry is a very powerful equalizing tool. It is not to be treated as the truth (the primary significance), because it will undermine its own strength.

The same thing applies to other tools, such as psychedelics, meditation, and in my case - dialectic self-inquiry (which I'm doing right now with you=me).

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

@tsuki How do you explain the fact that enlightened people highly recommend other people to get enlightened?

@Mikael89 No idea, only assumptions about this.
When a person seeks enlightenment, he may very well spend his whole life looking for it in various places. After attaining it somehow, he realizes that his whole life was used to accumulate knowledge that becomes useless in a sense once you awaken.
The only other thing you can do with it is to teach others how to enlighten. This is how I can explain the origin of a person that calls himself a guru.

According to Osho, the defining quality of a guru is that his presence pulls you towards yourself. It may be a universal quality of enlightened people, or a technique one accumulates via being in the presence of gurus your entire life.

My enlightenment has something to do with manipulation of meaning, so I'm wondering whether it is possible to make anything (any mundane thing) into a guru for me. I can treat ordinary people like gurus and listen to their unrecognized wisdom, but inanimate objects are a different thing entirely (for now). Infinite wisdom, huh?

[Ananta]

@Victor Mgazi Ok, I see you didn't understand.  To answer your question, you could say, "I AM consciousness/awareness" when/if asked your true nature. Thats just one example. Anyways, have a nice day! 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Anna1

[ajasatya]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

May God bless you all with great suffering.

And if God should fail, I believe they have spots open in North Korea. You could just like buy a ticket and stroll across the border.

there's been enough suffering for this cycle already 

@Anna1 it's not an assumption. it's just what i observe from every master that i've ever heard about. they've all gone through immense suffering. from breakups/failed marriages to deaths of close friends to severe lack of self-love... you name it. deep suffering is a pattern that i can see very clearly.

when i joined daissen-ji (a zen sangha), i did notice that every member had fucked up episodes in their lives and all of them started practicing meditation for healing purposes (including me).

it's not necessary to live in india or north korea or switzerland or alaska. a shocking event can happen anywhere. i am brazilian and my ex girlfriend tried to hang me to death, which was just enough for my world to break down (thank god hahaha).

Edited July 18, 2018 by ajasatya

[ajasatya]

5 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Are you saying that Switzerland and Alaska are horrific places to live in?

i didn't say "horrific", but alaska is quite isolated and cold and people from switzerland have major issues with depression and suicide.

[Toby]

3 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

people from switzerland have major issues with depression and suicide.

how many times have you been to switzerland? probably one of the best countries to live in imo.

[ajasatya]

@Mikael89 pardon my ignorance and thank you for presenting so much info about switzerland!

[Faceless]

10 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

"e pictures about Switzerland:

Excellent mountain ranges. ?

Place looks fantastic. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, ajasatya said:

@Anna1 it's not an assumption.

I didn't say it was. I was agreeing with you. I said, "Ain't that the truth", meaning, "yes, that is true". 

[Shanmugam]

@Mikael89 Switzerland looks so beautiful 

[Faceless]

@Mikael89

Bravo ? living there my friend. 

 Living there you are better off spending a lot of time outdoors. Everything you need to know or learn about in yourself, and about the nature of living is in that beautiful land there. 

Observation of our own inner workings, with others, and in nature (the relationship between) is the absolute best form of self learning that can take place. You will learn how to observe “the happening” holistically. 

To see all happenings simultaneously, and to maintain a balance of the senses and thought, so that one is not over-dominated by one or the other. 

This is an art, and paves the way for what I refer to as headlessness. 

 

By the way thanks for showing those pics of that beautiful country. Place looks majestic??

Edited July 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

9 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Yea but I don't live in Switzerland if you think that

Ah my bad  ? 

 

i got mixed up. Sweden is nice right? Are you near any forests and such? 

[Faceless]

Just now, Mikael89 said:

Yes Sweden is nice.

Yes kinda, but I don't have any time to go to forest because of work.

Oh?

[Vaishnavi]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:53 PM, Saumaya said:

 For most people who actually got enlightened, they never had any say, they were drawn to it.

This. 

Dear @Stretch, how can anyone force "wanting". You either want something or you don't. And Leo and other teachers only pose a possibility, that so and so is a possible something and you can empirically investigate it. If you don't want to go for it, you shouldn't (and cannot) force yourself into it. You'll end up causing more damage. 

The goal I believe should be consciousness (or awareness). Realising the depths of your own ignorance and deception can be a good enough reason to set you up for enlightenment if that is what you want, but again, don't take it as a goal or something. Once you're truly honest with yourself, you'll realise that you don't really know anything, anything at all for sure and that your mind is constantly deceiving you. Now if you see value in becoming more aware of this ignorance (and maybe undoing it) only then should you actually go for it. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Vaishnavi