How do we live together? (With Spiral Dynamics)

[Lorcan]

 

The question of how we all should live together is a complex question. 

How do get rid of the system/s that currently control how we live together is also a complex question.

This is a problem. I intuit that, as a collective, humans suffer needlessly, and everyone could live significantly happier if a system was in place that made so.

There is so much suffering in the world that could be stopped if the right external governing infrastructure was in place, that would encourage turning inwards rather than turning outwards. The unhealthy over indulgence of the Tier 1 stages perhaps has caused a toxic melting pot.

So what exactly are we dealing with when we consider trying to change the world?

The complexity is frustrating

-The Human Species  

-7 Billion People

-300,000+ Babies born daily

-Different Languages

-Finite Resources

-Advanced Technology 

-Highly Ideological Factions/Groups(Corrupt)

-The Apex Hierarchys' in control of Powerful Military's, Police Forces, and Secret Police with the ability to enact Conscription. 

-Capitalism backed by Apex Hierarchies.

-Varied Human Behaviour Archetypes. 

-Hierarchys within Hierarchys.

-The Internet.

-Indoctrination Systems backed by Apex Hierarchys. Some worse than others. (The Education System)

-Tier 1 thinking dominated

It's a mind-fuck. It's a mess.

It's just much easier to join an existing system and/or ideology rather than make a new one that is better. It is exceedingly complex, it is much easier to align with an existing ideology and take action through that existing system.

Where is the innovation?! 

It is a possibility with Spiral Dynamics(and perhaps there are other similar models) that we have some sort of tool to at least help construct a new world. 

A big problem is trying to get the masses involved.

Looking around me and observing others at school. It seem no-one my age gives a fuck about politics. They are concerned with Status, Sex, Partying and drinking. Its ludicrous. There is a huge lack of big picture and long-term thinking. How do you convince the masses to get on board with the self-actualization process, so we have a populace we can actually work with to take action in creating a better way of co-operative living?

At the moment , there is to few people to make a difference. Can you imagine trying to preach spiral dynamics to a crowd? No one would listen, I doubt it, except perhaps a few intellectuals. Not the majority. We need to get the majority on board with Self-Actualization,

How do we make a mass paradigm shift so people ascend up the stages instead of staying where they are, or regressing? How do we get them on board with self-actualization? It seems impossible.

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lorcan

[Lorcan]

15 hours ago, Etagnwo said:

@Lorcan my advice is don't invest your life purpose into improving it until you can see it accurately for what it is.

Well. It's basically to just to have a higher consciousness global society. I think we would all see the benefits of that.

It's specifics I am uncertain, it is a huge project, and it cannot be done alone. I do not know how such a project would get started. Getting more people to ascend stages is a start.

If 3 billion are still unhealthy manifestation of Stage Red, Stage Blue, Stage Orange, and Stage Green, its not going to happen.

Again. I do not know. It is a speculative and huge topic.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lorcan

[Nahm]

@Lorcan Impressive distraction to self inquiry. One of the best I’ve seen. 

[Scholar]

 

The radical change is already happening, and you are already part of it. The fact that thousands of people are watching Leo's advanced videos should tell you something important about the evolution of mankind at this stage. As far as I can tell we are doing really well, sure there are still chances that we might mess it up, but I don't think it is that likely. And even if, it doesn't mean that we can't learn from messing up. In fact, that is what we are doing right now! We are learning, and we are improving.

You are kind of late to the party mister, there are millions of people working on trying to make the world a better place, and they are doing incredibly well. Simply join them, you're not the first one who got the idea. 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Scholar

[Lorcan]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

 

You are kind of late to the party mister, there are millions of people working on trying to make the world a better place, and they are doing incredibly well. Simply join them, you're not the first one who got the idea. 

Do you have any examples? Specifically. Those dealing with how we should all live together. I have heard of the Venus Project and the Humanity Party.

 

[Lorcan]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Lorcan Impressive distraction to self inquiry. One of the best I’ve seen. 

How? What? Why? Where am I going wrong? Where are the flaws in my paradigm of my thinking?

I am all ears. 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lorcan

[Guest Quanty]

I only see blockages in human beings, I don't call that complexity anymore. The world can only change from within, an awakened world. So those awakened can live with the outside world, but the outside world cannot live without the blockages they have. So maybe if all get awakened, probably 80% of the population will simply disappear in death. At the end of the day, who is willing to sacrifice the old and discover the full potential? The physical/emotional pain is so great that this is the main reason people don't awaken.

Don't believe me? Wake up then  

[Lorcan]

1 hour ago, Quanty said:

I only see blockages in human beings, I don't call that complexity anymore. The world can only change from within, an awakened world. So those awakened can live with the outside world, but the outside world cannot live without the blockages they have. So maybe if all get awakened, probably 80% of the population will simply disappear in death. At the end of the day, who is willing to sacrifice the old and discover the full potential? The physical/emotional pain is so great that this is the main reason people don't awaken.

Don't believe me? Wake up then  

Well. I was not suggesting everyone go balls to the wall , max levels of consciousness ASAP. A significant improvement would be a place to start.

For example. Imagine this. However society functions right now. Throw that out the window in your mind for a second, you wont need this here.

Think of what goes on in burning man. Imagine that going on 24/7 in global society, with an infrastructure that somehow allows for it to maintained in a eco-friendly sustainable way. (So some systems would have to be put in place to deal with gathering the resources necessary for supporting human life, health, education, construction etc in order for it to work. So, some sort of system would have to be put in place for he manufacturing of material goods etc)

Try do some of the imagining yourself. I do not want to be writing out walls of texts of wish washy ideas on how it might look and work. Do you see the potential? It's OOZING with potential and its just waiting to happen

The crux of it is, that it would significantly better than what we currently have (If the idea was fully fleshed out and functionality and sustainability was kept in mind). 

Why do we live in the dark ages when could live like something like this?

Edited July 15, 2018 by Lorcan

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Lorcan said:

Do you have any examples? Specifically. Those dealing with how we should all live together. I have heard of the Venus Project and the Humanity Party.

 

Read the people Leo listed as people belonging to that stage, pretty much all of them are dealing with how we should live together. And not only them, but also stage green people and stage orange people, they are all contributing to this. Before you even think about raising the consciousness of other people, start raising your own consciousness. Are you at yellow or turquoise? Then how do you even know that there is a problem anywhere? How do you know what would be best for the world?

You keep saying that we could live like this and that, but the fact is that we couldn't. We are doing exactly what we could do, there is no difference. You are creating fantasies because of your lack of understanding of reality, and then you complain about why those fantasies are not present in reality! You are sitting in a train that is taking you to a destination, and you are complaining about why we are not at the destination instantly! Why can we not simply teleport? Well, because that's not how life works.

We are already moving at an incredibly fast speed, in fact, your greed for a better world would most likely lead to the entire train derailing! What you might understand once you learn about reality is that change takes time, yes you can contribute to change, you can even increase the speed of change, but not really by much. Especially if you are unwilling to develop yourself first. Nature is taking care of this, with or without you. You should first develop gratitude for the fact that anything is changing at all, the fact that Leo exists, that the internet exists, all these things within a few decades. A few centuries ago the entire planet looked differently, and so it will in another century. Change is happening faster than it ever did in the entirety of earths history.

Be humble, contribute to it, but don't be fanatical, don't be arrogant. Start to appreciate instead of wondering why the world is not exactly how you want it to be, right now this instant. That's how a child acts. Be patient and see the bigger picture.

[Nahm]

@Lorcan I’d committ to foundation; aligned eating, etc. And consciousness work; self inquiry, meditations. Then I’d start psychadelics. Maybe two years out....you’ll have an entirely different vantage point of who you are, what reality is, and how enormous the range of consciousness is from ‘one person to the next’. Then you’d have a real shot at changing a lot of lives. Striving to change the entire world...I won’t say it’s not possible, but you’d be the first and only human to do it. The most important facet, imo, is to see what consciousness is, and the all-encompassing role it plays in what you want to do with your life. Which is seriously impressive at any age, specifically yours. 

Some people need a kick in the ass. For others, slow and steady wins the race. I think slow & steady would serve you well. 

Is there a like-minded group already underway somewhat local to you? I think that’d be great. You could see so much, learn so much about people etc, and I could definitly see you leading such a group down the road. (Projection but......) If you’re going to accomplish the incredibly awesomely high vision you have committed yourself to, you’re going to need a lot of people, who lead a lot of people, who lead a lot of people. Also - I think they’d see in you, what I think I see in you, and that is a priceless intangible factor.

[SFRL]

It takes time. You can see it in the polls on this site. We are apparently majority Orange-Green. Our parents apparently majority Blue-Orange. So I guess our kids will be Green-Yellow? 

We look back now at Medieval times and we think they were a bunch of savages. Half a millennium from now they will look at us like savages.

Edited July 16, 2018 by SFRL

[Guest Quanty]

At the end of the day, real relationships cannot happen between the right people and middle way people. The dormant will never understand the awakened unless they awaken. And for the awakened this society is so boring in every aspect that we tend to have a hermit lifestyle. 

[Lorcan]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Lorcan

Is there a like-minded group already underway somewhat local to you?

No. Everyone thinks I am weird.

[SFRL]

This morning I woke up very early. I only had 4 hours of sleep. I have been working very hard the last few weeks but I finally got a break. 

I usually don't smoke but last night I bought a pack of Marlboro Reds and was smoking listening to music. 

This morning when I got up, I went to Dunkin Donuts for a double espresso. When I was almost there it started to rain. So I got underneath a roof and was there smoking on the street corner. 6AM. 

This young woman in her minivan shows up. Big fat star in the front window. She asked me if I could help her. She got 3 kids and her sister in the hotel room. Gas tank almost empty. No money for gas or food. If I can help her out buying food for her kids? So she says. 

What pulled me over the line was the empty gas tank because I used to be broke as fuck, and I am very familiar with that situation. So I recognize the situation. 

So I buy 3 grilled cheese sandwiches, 3 hash browns, 3 croissants, and 2 caffe latte's. - and an double espresso for myself. 

She is waiting outside in her car. I give her the food, and 20 bucks for gas. 

Then she starts this story about her grandma had a heartattack and she needs money for toll on the road, if I can help her out with that as well. I am observing all that. She all stressed out, anxiety trough the roof. Front window smashed up, she is like dirty black smears on her face. Fucking mess. And then she tries to pass me off her phone number. I am like thinking to myself "I don't need to get involved in this shit". Who knows what was all going on with her. Probably some left the husband lower tier problems shit. 

Anyways so I tell her she can spend 10 on gas and the rest on toll. She starts doing the math how she is going to use the 20 dollars. 11 on gas the rest on whatever. That's fucked up shit, having to budget every last dollar. But I only had two hundred bills in my wallet left and I wasn't going to give her those. 

But still though I hoped it helped her. 

 

My point being is there are so many people that are living a lower tier lifestyle low on the Spiral Dynamics and Maslow's hiearchy of needs. When you are in that situation it's all about survival and people are stressed and make bad decisions. 

Sometimes people need a little help to jump a particular hurdle here and there. You can't really help them all the way all the time. But if they can take that hurdle then they can build themselfs up from there. Or they spiral down. 

 

So after it got me contemplating listening to music and smoking my Marlboro Reds and drinking my double espresso. Once you are in that position you got good money, what are you going to do? I can start making more money in the future when I get promoted again. But really what are you going to do with it? 

My plan is to start helping more people and animals out. Maybe some volunteer work as well. I got to figure that out. Because many people are stuck they don't go anywhere. 

But you got to be strong. You need resources.

So if that means playing the stage Orange career game then we are going to play the Orange career game. I love my job anyways. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by SFRL

[Nahm]

@Lorcan Me too. 

[SFRL]

3 hours ago, Lorcan said:

No. Everyone thinks I am weird.

With these alternative guys there are a lot of whiny bitches. 

But also a lot of them are actually Alpha-males as well. Just doing there own shit not giving a fuck what others think. Its just hasn't really found it's way yet. I was like a goth/alternative guy in my highschool days. You strike me as that type as well. 

A lot of weird people in highschool become the coolest people later in life. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by SFRL

[Faceless]

54 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Lorcan Me too. 

Me three...

They don’t say that to my face though of course?

 

@Lorcan

i don’t know anything about spiral dynamics, nor do I want to, but I do know the formation of self images make for the inevitable conflict in relationship. 

If we don’t form a self image about ourselves, we don’t project images onto others. In this there is the beauty of actual relationship. 

Seems to simple and general, but it’s so. 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Lorcan]

I am having difficulty trying to describe and articulate this. So try understand what I am saying. I am drawing from limited knowledge and understanding. I do not mean to sound naive, correct me if needed.

 

A common theme I notice is that, I note that there is to much passivity, and I kind have a resistance to it. (The sort of vibe I get off you Nahm). It is just not practical. How do I explain.

The higher consciousness tier 2 thinkers(Sages as such) would be better off in holding power in the world in way that would net more total happiness and decrease total suffering. But tier 2 refuses to refuse to concern itself with anything to do with holding political power and such.

And what ends up happening is tier 1 thinkers take control, who do not mind concerning themselves with political power, and so society manifest itself such that people suffer a lot more compared to if tier 2 ruled?

Does that make any sense?

Its like if you have the good guy, the bad guy, then the people.

The good guy does not want anything to do with holding power, but the bad guy does not mind. So the bad guy takes control, and the peoples happiness suffers as a result. Such that Tier 1 sort of exploits Tier 2's excessive passivity.

 

 

   Enlightened Motherfucker: "I dont know. Just go meditate or self inquire in a cave or sumthin lol. All your problems will go away. No need to concern yourself with politics"

Some cunning stage red dude: "Right then, I'll cease power"

Society under red's rule : "fOr FuCKS saKE"

 

Do you get what I mean?

Edited July 16, 2018 by Lorcan

[SFRL]

4 minutes ago, Lorcan said:

I am having difficulty trying to describe and articulate this. So try understand what I am saying. I am drawing from limited knowledge and understanding. I do not mean to sound naive

 

A common theme I notice is that, the higher levels of consciousness are to passive. 

The higher consciousness tier 2 thinkers(Sages as such) would be better off in holding power in the world in way that would net more total happiness and decrease total suffering. But tier 2 refuses to refuse to concern itself with anything to do with holding political power and such.

And what ends up happening is tier 1 thinkers take control, who do not mind concerning themselves with political power, and so society manifest itself such that people suffer a lot more compared to if tier 2 ruled?

Does that make any sense?

Its like if you have the good guy, the bad guy, then the people.

The good guy does not want anything to do with holding power, but the bad guy does not mind. So the bad guy takes control, and the peoples happiness suffers as a result. Such that Tier 1 sort of exploits Tier 2's excessive passivity.

 

 

   Enlightened Motherfucker: "I dont know. Just go meditate or self inquire in a cave or sumthin lol. All your problems will go away. No need to concern yourself with politics"

Some cunning stage red dude: "Right then, I'll cease power"

Society no under red's rule : "fOr FuCKS saKE"

 

Do you get what I mean?

All that you there I agree with.

But I think you are suffering from tunnel vision right now, sensory overload from all those new videos or something. 

Spriral Dynamics is GREAT.

Enlightment sounds GREAT. 

But there is a lot more that goes in the mix to make the world turn. 

[Faceless]

26 minutes ago, SFRL said:

The higher consciousness tier 2 thinkers(Sages as such) would be better off in holding power in the world in way that would net more total happiness and decrease total suffering. But tier 2 refuses to refuse to concern itself with anything to do with holding political power and such.

@LorcanTo me “higher conciousness Sages” are subtly concerned with power, and in most cases are as ambitious as a Wall Street broker or “tier one political leader. If you observe very closely, both promote controle, both exploit others, both advocate some sort of propaganda. 

 

Why do we want to “change society”??

Do we see that we “the individual” is society??

To me, not to concern yourself with the abstraction “society” and deal with the fact “the individual” (you) is what is important. 

Has fear ceased to call the shots in your life? 

If so all action is whole, and you then cease to contribute to all the chaos in society. 

Do you a life of order?? 

If so you are in so doing bringing about a change to the stream of conciousness itself. 

After all “the Society” is an expression of “the individual”.

 

If you actually live a orderly life, free of division, conflict, contradiction, then that will be expressed and picked up by others. Keep order in your own house before trying to impose it elsewhere is what i am implying. 

This just seems like an intelligent way to go about it. Idk

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless