Religion and fully enlightened people?

[Tistepiste]

If I'm not mistaken Eckhart Tolle Is a Christian and refers to God a lot in his books

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, pluto said:

I think Jesus and Buddha were good examples of this level of enlightenment.

Jesus overturned the moneylenders' boards and began to beat the moneylenders. He cursed a fig tree which was not yielding any fruit because he and his disciples were hungry. 

When Buddha left his kingdom, his son was only one day old, he left the palace without informing his young wife, his father , he was his only son.

[pluto]

@Prabhaker I don't know how true that story is about Jesus but all i am saying is you cannot do such acts in an Unconditionally Loving state of being as you understand Oneness, its meaningless/pointless to your understanding/being to express anything but Unconditional Love or you will be harming/limiting yourself.

The Buddha story is more understandable although i am sure you understand my point in all of this.

Edited July 19, 2018 by pluto

[Prabhaker]

1 minute ago, pluto said:

i am saying is you cannot do such acts in an Unconditionally Loving state of being

In life we don't always choose from 'good' and 'evil', sometimes we have to choose from more evil and less evil. 

Jesus said “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." ◄ Matthew 10:34 ►

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, pluto said:

These people are/were not Truly Enlightened, They were merely Awakened.

Krishna says one can transcend both violence and non-violence, vice and virtue, pleasure and pain, and then there is nothing - neither violence nor non-violence, neither vice nor virtue. They all are illusory.

If one goes beyond the dialectics of violence and non-violence, pain and pleasure, if he knows for himself they are illusory, then in the very knowing all his violent thoughts and feelings will drop, he will be free of them. 

It can be said that Krishna is the first person to talk of choicelessness.

Krishna tells Arjuna, ”So long as you believe you can kill someone, you are not a man with a soul, you are not a religious man. So long as you think that one dies, you don’t know that which is within us, that which has never died and will never die. If you think you can kill someone you are under a great illusion, you are betraying your ignorance. The concept of killing and dying is materialistic; only a materialist can believe so. There is no dying, no death for one who really knows.”

[Leo Gura]

@pluto You are confusing enlightenment with stages of development.

A person can be truly enlightened, but undeveloped. And vice versa.

Technically, enlightenment is accessible at any stage of the Spiral.

[pluto]

It just makes no sense to me that you can be fully enlightened and not be unconditionally loving at the same time. They are interconnected thus one cannot exist without the other because you Innerstand Oneness, you Know ALL IS ONE to its CORE. Unconditional Love is the natural divine state of existence itself. When you become whole, you become a direct extension of this divine, eternal, energy. If you can somehow act and express otherwise or anything of a lower vibration then you may no longer be truly enlightened or at least no longer residing in a state of enlightened awareness/being.

 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

@pluto You have an idealized version of enlightenment. This notion of "unconditionally loving" is a pipe dream. In practice, people are still people and they still have many petty issues, including shadow issues, bad habits, and cultural conditioning of which they are unconscious despite their enlightenment. And on top of all that, there is still development, which is a separate thing. You might be loving but undeveloped.

Enlightenment does NOT make you a moral person. We have discussed this issue to death. Being a good person is a lot harder than enlightenment.

[pluto]

I guess ill have to take this inwards, i guess i just see it differently but thanks for the exchange guys. Apologies for my words/energy if any caused any disturbance.

Edited July 19, 2018 by pluto

[Solace]

@Leo Gura True enlightenment is the purification of all your beliefs in separation, all of your cultural conditioning. You become an empty vessel for which God/ALL THAT IS/I AM presence effortlessly flow through without any beliefs that you are not one with God shaping and changing this flow of divine energy. This divine energy that flows through us can be nothing other than pure unconditional love. As @pluto said, it is impossible to express anything based upon fear or it's derivatives because that would mean that you are not unconditionally loving, hence not fully enlightened yet. Any beliefs in separation that are still in your subconscious mind mean that more purification, healing, and releasing is necessary through expressing, anchoring and identify with the love that you are, always were, and always will be no matter what you believe. 

All that is left is your unique energy frequency which is one with your I AM presence, and that is all. Enlightenment is beyond all stages, has integrated all stages, is everything. Our conceptual knowledge is limited to the mental body; but we are so much greater. That is why enlightened masters tell us that it is not what we know about the world that matters, or what physical actions we have done; but how kind we were, and loving  

At the highest dimension of the universe, there is only love. And we are one with this love. Anything fear based is ultimately an illusion and has no reality, which means any cultural conditioning left in a person can only mean that they are not truly enlightened.

Hope this helps broaden, and expand all of our minds. Blessings of love to you all. 

 

 

[Prabhaker]

7 minutes ago, Solace said:

This divine energy that flows through us can be nothing other than pure unconditional love.

Do you think every man of unconditional love will preach peace and meditation when a person like Hitler is invading his country? What if life itself is hurt and harmed by preventing war? What sense is there in preventing a war if peace suffers because of it? 

[Prabhaker]

31 minutes ago, Solace said:

At the highest dimension of the universe, there is only love.

Peace, love, nonviolence does not mean that you have just to be there, beaten. Mahavira and Buddha both in some way or other are responsible for twenty centuries of slavery in India. Nonviolence should be out of an abundance of power. Don’t use that power to kill, to destroy; but use that power to create, to protect. And if anybody tries to harm you or anybody else, do everything to prevent that harm.

Nonviolence simply means that killing, destroying, is ugly.

That does not mean that allowing somebody else to do such a thing is not ugly.

[Solace]

@Prabhaker I genuinely don't understand what point you are trying to make, or how it is related. I encourage you to read through my response a few times

I would like to say that war is a manifestation of that primal egotistic fear which I spoke of. It comes from the belief that we are seperate from love/God, that we aren't unlimited beings who are one with the divine source. Why would there be a need to retaliate against an apparent "enemy" when you know you are an immortal, ever-present, all-knowing God? There wouldn't even be a desire for one truly enlightened.

Non-violence does not equal love dear one. Anything done without the intention of love, can only inspire a form of fear or separation.

Hope this helps clear things up! Contemplate what me and Pluto are saying if you want to, to understand more from our perspective. Lots of love, and joy Prahbaker.

[jse]

On 7/12/2018 at 9:41 PM, PsiloPutty said:

Religion and fully enlightened people?

"fully-enlightened" and "people" are contradictory terms.

[Leo Gura]

I have warned you guys against idealized notions of enlightenment many times. You are setting yourselves up for disappointment and some rude awakenings with all this "true enlightenment is perfect" stuff.

Don't be surprised when you see your "truely enlightened" guru pissing in your soup.

[jse]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have warned you guys against idealized notions of enlightenment many times. You are setting yourselves up for disappointment and some rude awakenings with all this "true enlightenment is perfect" stuff.

Don't be surprised when you see your "truely enlightened" guru pissing in your soup.

Indeed.  Take heed of the voice of experience.

[Nahm]

Note to ‘self’: pass on soup.

[Solace]

If we are God, and God is made of unconditional love, then we literally are made of this love, and so can have a direct experience of this love in every single moment. 

We can all agree that we are one with God. So how can there be anything left inside of us that is not a direct reflection of God's love when we become enlightened? How could there be otherwise? To think there is a part left in our minds such as social conditioning is a limited perspective because that implies that there is a part of us that is seperate from God, which can only be the case when one isn't enlightened  

I honour all of your understandings. I did have a similar understanding in the past as well.

 

 

[starsofclay]

We are everything. Not only unconditional love. There are many facets. 

Someone define unconditional love for me please

[Solace]

@starsofclayThe phrase "unconditional love" is pointing to an experience that no words can describe. It is synonymous with the words God/Bliss/Source/Excitement/Joy; all of which point to this experience of unconditional love.

Thus it cannot be defined in a language rooted in duality such as this one. Some enlightened masters don't speak for this reason because their silence communicates the truth of this experience more directly.

To get to this experience, which all human beings are seeking and which is much more important than talking about enlightenment, is quite simple: anchor love and oneness. Follow your greatest joy, focus on your heart, being kind are all "methods" that withdraw your awareness back to the source of your being, that unconditional love, found within the secret chamber of the heart (as called in christianity) or the spiritual heart (as Yogi's call it). I highly recommend you research this phenomenon for deeper understanding.

Much love my friend.