Religion and fully enlightened people?

[PsiloPutty]

OK, let's say a Christian monastic meditates 10 hours a day for years and reaches a full awakening. Upon seeing himself as everything and nothing, what would keep him adhered and devoted to Christianity? Wouldn't he see beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible is just a collection of stories? Wouldn't he see that HE is Christ, Allah, the Buddha and leave religion behind as a matter of course? I can understand how a non-fully awakened monk would likely remain devoted to his religion, but it seems to me that a full awakening would lead them to walk out the door every time. 

Summed up: do fully enlightened people ever keep their previously-held religion? How? Why?

[ajasatya]

@PsiloPutty fully enlightened people see religions as methods. some of them work and some of them don't. the religion that i'd teach would certainly be the religion that worked for me. it's not a matter of beliefs. it's a matter of practice and proficiency.

the true buddhist doesn't believe the words of the buddha. the true buddhist lives the life of a buddha. same for christians, krishna devotees etc.

[PsiloPutty]

@ajasatya  I follow you completely. The religion becomes a model.

 

Edited to add a thank you. Thank you.  

Edited July 12, 2018 by PsiloPutty

[Prabhaker]

56 minutes ago, PsiloPutty said:

Wouldn't he see beyond a shadow of a doubt that the bible is just a collection of stories?

No, bible is not just a collection of stories, it is a path towards enlightenment. 

56 minutes ago, PsiloPutty said:

do fully enlightened people ever keep their previously-held religion? How? Why?

Jesus was a Jew but Jews never accepted him as messiah. Every religion becomes distorted with time. People interpret teachings according to their convenience and interests.

Some religions in the east have produced many enlightened masters to refresh the message again and again.

When a religion don't produce new enlightened masters or his followers don't accept a new master it becomes dead or a political organization at the most.

Modern man don't need organized religions but they were necessary in the past. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Prabhaker
spelling

[PsiloPutty]

What about strict Islam? Would a previous devotee still espouse Sharia Law after enlightenment? Can't help but think that huge chunks of former belief would have to be dropped.

[Lucas Lousada]

all religions are the same history seen by different people  with different lives... almost all modern religions are just a bunch of money making companies masked

[Prabhaker]

6 minutes ago, PsiloPutty said:

What about strict Islam? Would a previous devotee still espouse Sharia Law after enlightenment? Can't help but think that huge chunks of former belief would have to be dropped.

Islam has left no scope of any reform, any enlightened master will not try to reform it directly. Muhammad is the last messenger, any other messenger will be killed instantly.

Depletion of oil and gas reserves, internet , materialism and influence of western culture will make them less strict in future.  

[Highest]

All religions share the same metaphysical and spiritual truth. All try to somehow lead you to spirituality, to go within. But after that, when you have arrived at the ultimate and seen truth for yourself, there is no need to follow any religion. I would have left it all, but everyone is different.

[Guest Quanty]

All religions and system of thought lead to Enlightenment. 

But one has to be aware of the occult meaning in them, without the view of the background, there is no awakening. 

 

Usually, those who are still in a religion, 1. they don't know the full truth, 2. they are there with a hidden agenda knowing the truth. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by Quanty

[Widdle Puppy]

I believes it is such a major paradigm shift that the actions they then take are very different. basically everything we do is coming from a place of ego and since they are not there anymore many things we think make sense are completely pointless for them. they've gone completely meta so to speak. 

[PsiloPutty]

@Mikael89   Maybe you should read it. *shrug* Hard to deny that sort of synchronicity.

And what religion are most swedes? 

[PsiloPutty]

Interesting....had no idea.

I used to play table tennis with a dude from Sweden. I learned some curse words in Swedish by listening to him, but that's all I know of Sweden.     No idea how to spell them, but a couple of them sound like "Javla kyook" and "Javla fay-tah."  I think those are talking about the devil. 

[starsofclay]

@PsiloPutty perhaps the enlightened monk just really prefers the monastic lifestyle, and chooses to stay for that reason. He may have to hide the truth from fellow monks, but he's fluent enough in Christian speak to get by.  ? He may also try to show them some nuggets of truth as well. 

And of course true, original Christianity is nothing like catholic Christianity, so once he finds truth he probably is able to study his bible and appreciate the allegories of truth in it instead of seeing the dogma. He sticks with the religion because he has found a whole new respect for it even after all these years. 

[Leo Gura]

@PsiloPutty It is very important to distinguish enlightenment itself from the mind's embodiment and understanding of it. You can have nondual states at low levels of mental development. You can be a devout Blue Christian who has nondual experiences and interprets them as Christ consciousness but it still ethocentric and highly partial to Christianity, denoucing Buddhism and Islam as devil worship.

To be able to integrate lots of various worldviews and to be globalist vs enthocentric does NOT come automatically with nondual states. It takes great mental development to be able to stand outside your cultural biases and programming.

Even if you become fully enlightened, your mind will still be filled with cultural programming and biases. And it will not automatically understand all the other traditions in the world without study. You can be enlightened and yet still totally ignorant of Islam or Hinduism or science, and how they all interconnect.

If Jesus was alive today, he might not look too kindly upon Buddhism or Islam.

If you were raised Christian, you will probably have a strong preference to interpret enlightenment in a way that's favorable to that tradition. There will still be subtle bias. Just like if you were raised in a scientific household, you will be biased towards scientific explanations of enlightenment. You will talk about neuroscience and evolution and so on.

Watch out. These are all traps!

Enlightenment alone will NOT make you Turquoise.

[sgn]

5 hours ago, PsiloPutty said:

Interesting....had no idea.

I used to play table tennis with a dude from Sweden. I learned some curse words in Swedish by listening to him, but that's all I know of Sweden.     No idea how to spell them, but a couple of them sound like "Javla kyook" and "Javla fay-tah."  I think those are talking about the devil. 

LMAO!! "fucking dick" "fucking pussy"

[pluto]

@Leo Gura Then that is not TRUE integration of enlightenment or the enlightened state but merely the glimpses of enlightenment similarly as you get from your psychedelic experiences. I don't think you understand true enlightenment my friend you are misleading a lot of people by your assumptions and i think its time someone mentions this if they haven't already.

True Enlightenment is the most humbling experience that literally clears EVERYTHING and the only thing that is left is simply who you are as a whole. I don't believe you have experienced/integrated this yet from my observation of your posts and immature responses to others so i do not think it is wise to lead and correct others where you have not mastered that state of being yourself.

I don't mean to be the one to hurt your ego, but i believe if i don't present the truth, no one else will.

[Nahm]

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, pluto said:

True Enlightenment is the most humbling experience that literally clears EVERYTHING

... but we can't define outer behavior of an enlightened person, they can kill others, criticize others, make love and can spread the religion in which they were born.

Read about Krishna, Mohammed and tantra masters.

[pluto]

@Prabhaker There's definitely something missing there? if they can do all that, they must not known source/self too well and merely partly connected or forgotten the truth from not applying and living by it daily.

Its not hard to portray as an enlightened being and manipulate others. All you have to do is rise and tap into a higher vibration/dimension of being/experience then relax down that most other people there still have yet to tap into, thus you appear enlightened to them(which in a sense you are to them) as where many of these so called "enlightened gurus" are at today, but to a being of a similar wavelength as them, they are just another being on a similar vibration/wavelength and merely "awake" to the truth of who they are, but to be truly enlightened is where absolute clarity and truth of oneness resides within them and is expressed at all times in an unconditionally loving and non-judgemental way.

I think Jesus and Buddha were good examples of this level of enlightenment. Now, this is all and well, everyone has their levels and paths of teaching/learning but i feel we need to remember to unwind every once in a while as we get far too carried away and caught up with these ideas/distractions which in turn ends up deluding self thus can delude many others of a lower wavelength/vibration especially if you have many followers. We are (in a sense) arguing with creation and complicating its perfect simplicity.

In this level of realization of self, all those things you mentioned that those so called "enlightened beings" did are pointless and meaningless to your understanding and beingness in the truly enlightened state. I can see how one can have experiences and claim or portray to be enlightened due to the experiences then eventually lead to other things that not in harmony the higher self-consciousness thus what happened to them was partial enlightenment/awakening or a wake up call and not grand enough to persist on a more permanent level so they come in waves instead.

These people are/were not Truly Enlightened, They were merely Awakened.

True Enlightenment is eternal, unshakable, indestructible/irreplaceable and lived as an example day by day. This is the one that can and should give advice especially advice on enlightenment and the enlightened state not the ones that are living off enlightenment experiences. The one that lives and is one with the Enlightened Awareness(at least to some degree) on a day to day basis is fit to help and share truth with others and help those arise to the light and freedom themselves.

You have to be honest with self, i know everyone is trying their best especially Leo and many including myself are truly grateful for these beings and what they are trying to do and have done thus far but if you cant remain unconditionally loving, kind, compassionate and non-judgemental at all times you are not fit to express truth of the enlightened state/awareness to others which is why i myself am taking a break from all of this until i embody more of the enlightened awareness and unconditionally loving nature of the one infinite creator as i know the highest level of of being is Unconditionally Loving and Pure Understanding.

The more we talk about Enlightenment the more it becomes a misunderstanding. All the best ?

 

 

 

 

[pluto]

57 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Which gurus are like that? 

I see many, especially on youtube that have tapped into the higher intelligence states/realms(what have you) but do not express an unconditionally loving, non-judgemental nature. Those who do, know and understand source to a higher degree and do so by expressing source energy through themselves, their own behaviors and actions and apply what they preach on a day to day basis.

Its easy to know, the challenge is to remain pure in the knowing. Those who remain pure have understanding, those who don't just know too much and understand too little which ends up backfiring. I have experience some of this myself as have seen many come and go over the years. You could say its like a paradox in itself but there is wisdom behind it. Lao Tzu was another great example of a possibly Truly Enlightened Being.

It is important to properly integrate, ground and crystallize higher energies or it can be overwhelming and overpowering on a physical level.

Hope this helps