The Nature Of The Ego

[Victor Mgazi]

@Zweistein oh yeah , I meant it like we shouldn't beat ourselves down  . It's a general advice for other readers too but yeah it is unbelievable. 

[Victor Mgazi]

@ZweisteinZweistein how often do you have lucid dreaming? 

Guys why is love so scary towards the ego? I ask because after some lucid dreaming I became awake but the body was still shut down so it was a temporary sleep paralysis. I didn't mind it though because I have experienced it in the past before. I just thought to myself that this is the perfect time for meditation since the body is already relaxed / resting. The room was dark and this happened around midnight. I surrendered myself to pure being but then I quickly regretted it in a shock of fear. It was the scariest thing I have ever experienced. It was like when I decided to let go of my sense of self there was nothing happening anymore like time had stopped, it felt like I was just being consumed or engulfed by total emptiness, and oh my word it was so dark I swear you could even feel it. It's like I was drowning in pure darkness and emptiness, it felt like death and I just couldn't, I ended up resisting it completely, I was literally fighting to wake up with my body but there was no sensation but I didn't stop until I woke up. Honestly that was scary and it made me doubt why should I continue with this work. It was so weird! Like nothing was happening, it was just complete stillness of everything, I mean there wasn't even space - no perception of a here and there, I was literally nowhere at all. And I'm thinking, this has to be death starring you in the face because wow that was...I can't even word it out. I'm sorry but I had to stop it, that was insane, I feel like letting the ego live it's better than starring death in the face. 

Wow! 

 

[Zweistein]

@Victor Mgazi 

Ohhhh yes, it was hurting like hell when I tapped into the Absolute the first time. From what you wrote, it sounds like you experienced that - what do you think? I was experiencing this involuntarily many, many times in my life and it was always hurting like hell. Until one day (15 January 2017) when I starred death in the face literally (I actually had a hemorrhagic stroke / brain bleed). After that, tapping into the Absolute turned into bliss because I realized that as long as I can feel this, I'm actually alive. And since then I kept doing it more and more often, so that nowadays "I'm living this dream" almost every moment, even right now. It's the ultimate way for me to let go of my story and identity. Does that make any sense to you? 

When it comes to my (seriously crazy) dreams - I have only just started a dream diary and figuring out what my dreams tell me about my subconscious mind. I can usually remember them quite easily in the morning but until recently I didn't bother to "keep dreaming" once I realized I was in a dream. It opens up a whole new world....

Edited July 16, 2018 by Zweistein

[Zweistein]

@Faceless @robdl @Nahm

Maybe we can also add a few sentences about "the nature of advice" to this discussion... what do you think? ;-)

[Victor Mgazi]

@Zweistein

18 hours ago, Zweistein said:

I actually had a hemorrhagic stroke

Are you serious? How is that even possible, I mean I can understand that the brain will rewire itself as a result of spiritual practices but could that be the extent of it, experiencing nothing? 

18 hours ago, Zweistein said:

From what you wrote, it sounds like you experienced that - what do you think?

I'm not sure if it was the absolute that I experienced but I'm pretty much certain that it was the closest experience of ego death that I have ever had. It felt like real death to me but without any physical pain. Just anxiety due to fear. 

[Faceless]

34 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

It felt like real death to me but without any physical pain. Just anxiety due to fear. 

34 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

experiencing nothing? 

Hello @Victor Mgazi

Where there is an experience there will be anxiety-fear. 

Would you say that to experience nothing would imply no experiencer-experience?

 

For me, death of (experience, knowledge, memory) as the i, implies no fear, no anxiety, and obviously no experiencer-experience that is then continued or imprinted onto “the now” or “the happening” 

also, there is a constant process of death that takes place. Seems to have started as a daily phenomena, but then went to minutes or even seconds. So “I” (experience, knowledge, memory) as the i, am constantly dying, or that memory as the I is not continued over to the next moment. 

This is how I feel there are these extended periods of time where there is this total emptiness-nothingness of conciousness. Really seems to be no consciousness-thought at all. 

There is still thought when needed to do something, but when it is not needed thought remains dormant. So the I (experience, knowledge, memory) is not in movement anymore, just a movement of thought without identification. No registration, recollection, identification, and therefore no experience at all. To be headless. 

So to me the ending of that continued experience is this nothingness that is spoken of. But to me death is ongoing. We are perpetualy dying to the past (experience, knowledge, memory, as the i)...If not we get this sense of temporary death. Or partial death. Because then experience as the i continues to be accumulated as the i after. This is where passive awareness comes in. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

The self-thought doesn’t want to stay empty. It is always looking to fill, add, accumulate, seek, record, to protect itself (capture and sustain permanence as the i) 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Victor Mgazi]

How does compassion serve the ego or does it serve a higher purpose perhaps for a collective ego such as humanity? 

I find this very tricky to answer so I would like to hear other people's view on this before I draw a conclusion. 

[Charlotte]

Excellent thread ?

[Charlotte]

Compassion, how does it serve the ego? In my opinion, on an unconscious level, showing compassion to another could also be self gratification. 

If you look (I have looked into my own compassionate motives) deeply you could find that the reason you show compassion is to actually serve yourself. 

E.g. I want to dedicate my life to help animals, one could see this as a selfless act, but if you look deeper and more holistically you'll actually see the reason I want to help them is to make ME feel better. If I help, I know they may I'll suffer less, therefore making myself feel better. 

Just my two cents ?

[robdl]

Does compassion have purpose? Is it a means to an end? Is it employed to seek a result? If it’s for a result, then is it just born out of thought?

[Faceless]

39 minutes ago, Charlotte said:

Compassion, how does it serve the ego? In my opinion, on an unconscious level, showing compassion to another could also be self gratification. 

If you look (I have looked into my own compassionate motives) deeply you could find that the reason you show compassion is to actually serve yourself. 

E.g. I want to dedicate my life to help animals, one could see this as a selfless act, but if you look deeper and more holistically you'll actually see the reason I want to help them is to make ME feel better. If I help, I know they may I'll suffer less, therefore making myself feel better. 

Just my two cents ?

Indeed, therefore born of fear, and not compassion. Your two cents are not yours, but common to woman-man kind 

Compassion cannot be when there is fear-self. 

Any movement of psychological becoming implies fear. If this movement to become psychologically secure is taking place fear is calling the shots. If that is so, then all action is conditioned. Any conditioned responses-reaction such as fear prevents the action of compassion. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Victor Mgazi]

@Charlotte yeah I get what you are saying but now I'm only wondering why. So helping others makes us feel better but for other people, killing can have the same effect in terms of self fulfillment and so I'm thinking that the hole must go deeper. My view was that it's all about self image but what if I'm wrong. If me killing people instead of helping them can bring about the same fulfillment then compassion must have a deeper source of being (existing) regardless of whether we are conscious of it or not. If sympathy for example was serving the ego's self image (fulfillment) then why can cruelty have the same effect for people who are considered psychopaths for instance. So what is the cause for this compassion to come about...? Self gratification couldn't be the only cause for reasons stated above hence I think that the ego has a lot of self deception at work which is leading to a strong deluded state. 

i hope this makes sense 

[Faceless]

3 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

So what is the cause for this compassion to come about...?

As robdl said, compassion is not of causation. 

 

Compassion is when the movement of time as the i (psychological seeking) ends. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless

[Victor Mgazi]

6 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Indeed, therefore born of fear, and not compassion. Your two cents are not yours, but common to woman-man kind 

Yes many things are born of fear but something like sincerely feeling bad for other people's misfortune can be hard to linked with fear. 

[Faceless]

17 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

Yes many things are born of fear but something like sincerely feeling bad for other people's misfortune can be hard to linked with fear. 

If one does anything to serve there own personal agenda (self serve) then it is not sincere. Simple right. 

Just watch your own motives throughout the day. It becomes rather obvious.  There will be subtle movement to evade that fact. Watch that as well.

you will see that most action is conditioned (dependent on circumstances of oneself) 

this is what is meant by finite-fragmented action. 

When that movement of i (conditioned action ends) Then there is whole action. The action of truth. Integrated action. 

ALL ACTION THAT IS WHOLE IS COMPASSIONATE-GENUINE. FREEDOM WITHOUT FEAR IMPLIES COMPASSION. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless

[robdl]

47 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

Yes many things are born of fear but something like sincerely feeling bad for other people's misfortune can be hard to linked with fear. 

Pity can be the "near-enemy" of compassion.   Easily conflated with, but in stark contrast to, that is.

[Zweistein]

@Victor Mgazi 

Wait, don't get me wrong - it wasn't a spiritual practice yet at all when I had the hemorrhagic stroke. That was probably a result of stress and not taking enough care of myself.

4 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@Zweistein

Are you serious? How is that even possible, I mean I can understand that the brain will rewire itself as a result of spiritual practices but could that be the extent of it, experiencing nothing? 

[Zweistein]

@Faceless @robdl@Victor Mgazi@Charlotte

2 hours ago, Charlotte said:

Compassion, how does it serve the ego? In my opinion, on an unconscious level, showing compassion to another could also be self gratification. 

If you look (I have looked into my own compassionate motives) deeply you could find that the reason you show compassion is to actually serve yourself. 

Yeah, and when I looked deeply, I found unconscious motives like "trying to get attention" or "wanting to be seen" ? ... 

And I guess as long as we are all here, we are not quite done seeking, are we?

I haven't reached the point where I can truly enjoy doing nothing.

 

 

 

 

[Faceless]

19 minutes ago, Zweistein said:

@Faceless @robdl@Victor Mgazi@Charlotte

Yeah, and when I looked deeply, I found unconscious motives like "trying to get attention" or "wanting to be seen" ? ... 

And I guess as long as we are all here, we are not quite done seeking, are we?

I haven't reached the point where I can truly enjoy doing nothing.

 

 

 

 

?

As long as this false division between the doer and the doing is taking place it is as all important or belived in very deeply. In that conflict and compulsion of “having” to capture “psychological contentment” will remain. 

The doer has to do to maintain is continuity-permanence. You know the whole, “ hey I am here feed me psychologically” lol 

This is self preservation. This is conditioned in our society as well, which perpetuates this whole movement of the i who has to do, to maintain a sense of security-safety. 

Security-safety psychologically is an illusion. It’s absolutely necessary, yet it cannot be captured or maintained by seeking psychologically. That is seeking security in the mechanism that causes insecurity, which is thought. 

 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Faceless