The Nature Of The Ego

[Leo Gura]

Infinite being and love are identical.

[Victor Mgazi]

So is love an emergent phenomenon or is it infinitely present and why? 

If it's constantly there then why aren't we tapping into to it? Shouldn't it be easy for something that is always there... 

[Victor Mgazi]

I have noted that self deception and justification can have a connection. But why would the ego need to deceive itself, what does this have to do with the self image? 

[Faceless]

20 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

I have noted that self deception and justification can have a connection. But why would the ego need to deceive itself, what does this have to do with the self image? 

Self deception, justification, the invention of a self image all a movement of fear seeking to bring about a psychological sense of security or (escape fear) 

 

We create an image to validate a sense of self worth, self affirmation, and so on. We seek seeking in the image (pleasure) and we don’t see we are inevitably inviting pain as a consequence of that. 

 

All boils down to seeking security in thought. Any movement seeking security in thought (pleasure) is inviting psychological insecurity. The self perpetuates self deception by seeking psychological security in the very mechanism that causes psychological insecurity. 

 

[Victor Mgazi]

That makes sense. So it's by any means necessary huh. 

[Victor Mgazi]

What about compassion, I don't see how this could be a fear based phenomenon. Could this be self deception fulfilling some psychological need? 

[Leo Gura]

Love is being itself. Like the physical building blocks of reality.

But this cannot be seen while through the cloud of smog of the ego.

You have to die to see that all is love. Ego is incapable of such love. Only with death does it come.

[Victor Mgazi]

@Leo Gura are you saying it's objective in nature? And if so...how can it be experienced. 

[Victor Mgazi]

I assume that all experience is subjective because meaning only exists in duality right? 

[Nahm]

@Victor Mgazi The knowing of this after years of meditation, the actuality of this revealed with psychadelics. Love does not come & go, thinking is just very sneaky.

[How to be wise]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Love is being itself. Like the physical building blocks of reality.

But this cannot be seen while through the cloud of smog of the ego.

You have to die to see that all is love. Ego is incapable of such love. Only with death does it come.

Sadhguru disagrees with you. He says that love has nothing to do with the outside world. Go to 22:57:

 

[Faceless]

Love does not come about through cultivation by any means. It cannot be premeditated by will-desire-volition. 

It is not somthing you get. It is when the you with all your reaching, striving for, grasping after, and other movement of the self end. 

 

In order for there to be love there there must be death to all the psychological accumulation of experience, knowledge, memory as the i. Which means one must from moment to moment, die to everything in which experience, knowledge, memory, (thought),  as the i has put together. 

Personally for “me”, death is every day, minute, second.

We are constantly gathering up experience, knowledge, memory, about as the i. We can take psychedelics, practice various forms of meditation, but that is only temporary. I am talking about dying every moment. Dying to experience as the i. This demands much more than a series of trips. Experience as the i must end, and by no means can an experience touch on that which is Love. 

 

This doesn’t take years of cultivation in some sort of routine. It doesn’t depend on psychedelics, or anything for that matter. It takes a HOLISTIC SEEING. The duality between the experiencer and the experience must be seeing “ACTUALLY”...If it is not seen actually then this seeing will fade away and one has not really seen at all. This seeing if whole, is a one time deal. The seeing the truth in the fact that the experiencer is one and the same movement as the experience, is action that implies FREEDOM. In this holistic seeing one sees the futility in seeking security in the illusory nature of psychological time. When all movement of division-duality as the i who seeks psychologically ceases, then there is FREEDOM. FREEDOM unbound by the center(self) that is perpetualy seeking pleasure to escape fear. Freedom without the burden of the i who seeks to re-experience past experiences. 

Freedom without the invention of images to nourish-perpetuate its own movement as the i, and by any means necessary building walls around itself in which it defends those images. In this there can be nothing but further frustration, anxiety, fear, in which only strengthens fear and prevents freedom, which is Love. 

Compassion, Joy, Beauty, Truth, and that which is truly Creative, all one and the same movement of FREDDOM. Only in FREEDOM is there love. Then in that freedom, perhaps there is that which is sacred that comes into being. The beauty of observation unbound by any form of experience, knowledge, memory. In this is the mysterious realm that is unbound by measure, time, things. 

 

This doesn’t have to take years unless you want it to. It takes a HOLISTIC SEEING; understanding which is not verbal-intellectual...It takes (insight into the whole of it all). Thought likes to see in parts, this is why it takes us so long if ever, to end that which time has constructed as the self. 

 

This can take you your whole life, or it can become an actuality now. Time plays absolutely no part in this. 

 

@Victor Mgazi Be carful trying to understand love when time (psychological becoming) still remains a fact in oneself. Also love cannot be pinned down by any partial, finite, and incomplete movement of thought-self. I wouldn’t get caught up in this Love is consciousness type of talk either. Until you (time) ceases to seek, all attempts to capture the essence of love will be futile.

Perhaps it will just happen as it did me. Not premeditated-uninvited. When we see the futility in seeking security in the time we cease to move so unintelligently. 

When all psychological seeking ends, Love is. Also in this opens the door to the mysterious(what I call headlessness) the ultimate Freedom. 

 

Again, start with fear-thought-self. Learn about it, understand it, maintain a passive awareness to that understanding-seeing. In this all movement of the i with its will-volition-psychological seeking dies at its root. And in this there is the beauty of life. 

 

I noticed you were starting to understand-commune with @robdl, he is very wise about all of this. Maybe continue to talk with him as well.

 

Anyway i hope anything I said has been of any value my friend. ??

Edited July 13, 2018 by Faceless

[Victor Mgazi]

Wow,  thanks for sharing guys. This has really opened my mind. I'm truly grateful. 

[Faceless]

Sure..

This is a great thread, maybe we can keep it alive. There always more to talk about. 

[Faceless]

Quite strange when I here, you can never kill “your” ego. 

We so subtly separate the experiencer from the experience, and are not aware of this fact. 

This inattention is how this division is nourished. 

A lot of prople say they know the ego is an illusion, yet the action they take says otherwise. Seems they know it verbally-intellectually, but do not see the truth in that fact. They do not see it holistically. It’s only when we really truly see it, that all indivisible action comes into being. In this we do not know truth then act. In this observation of that truth is action in and of itself. 

Many go beyond that in which they have not yet began by not actually ending that false sense of duality as the experiencer and that which is experienced. Which is why many either say befriend the ego or kill it. Either way both influenced by this false notion of division. Tricky tricky indeed. 

It’s interesting isn’t it.?

 

 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

When does this “division” between the thinker and the thought enter in? 

Can anyone pin it down? 

 

It’s quite interesting indeed . 

 

[CreamCat]

Ingest psychedelics, and you will learn more about your ego.

[Zweistein]

7 hours ago, Faceless said:

When does this “division” between the thinker and the thought enter in? 

Can anyone pin it down? 

 

It’s quite interesting indeed . 

 

Observing of the present moment is the key to realize that there is no division between thinker and thought , I would say ?  

Once I get overwhelmed with a situation and fail to observe, I fall back into the subconscious ego-programmed mind.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Zweistein

[Victor Mgazi]

@Faceless pinning it down is very tricky for me but it has come to my awareness that every thought I experience brings about a sense of self so to me the ego is really just a series of thought self. One has many identities with in himself /herself and there's always a change. Self Identification of thoughts is just one of its functions I guess. 

This may of course be a neurological thing instead of just psychological because the brain is just the sum of a large number of brain cells and they could all have egos of their own hence there's always a communication (which I like to call the voices) going in the head and the identification of thoughts to produce "will power" so there entire system can function as a whole. 

Although I'm still operating in this thought-self paradigm, so many things have been popping up in my awareness that has made my life so easier and a lot more fearless. I just seem to be opening up to things much more, both the good and the bad. I'm opening up to everything more and I'm liking it! I understand the nature of pain (all kinds of them) and why it's necessary. I view myself more like a machine now and I'm studying myself as an interesting subject, being blown away by the mechanics at work here it's just so intriguing. Not long ago I had no clue that my heart was like a brain on it's own and now I'm even making use of its intelligence. I mean did you know that your heart is sending more messages to the brain than it's receiving them. And I'm actually aware of that now it's no longer just a theory to me. 

There's just so much intelligence out here, it's feels to good to be true and learning to love is the best thing happening in my life right now, it's just beautiful. @Zweistein don't beat yourself down if you act unconsciously here and again because this is just a dream after all and we can't be lucid dreaming through out the entire experience, us being consumed by the story is part of the experience and love cannot reject that experience because it's simply a part of it. Instead just turn back and laugh at how it got you again and be aware of the intelligence behind that. Your enlightenment is already inevitable so there's no need to go hard on yourself. 

If you can stare at your reflection in the mirror and see that there's not really a you there, just the universe's machine observing itself then that would be great because you will begin to see that you and the universe are just one and the same thing - a movement in time. You are the universe commucating with us (the universe). And this event is of intelligence. I promise it is an awesome experience, kinda like realizing in a dream that everybody there is you and are happening in your head. It's truly amazing, I'm not even sure if I'm describing it effective enough because everything I'm saying here is just of great significance and just talking about it is making my eyes teary. It's honestly beautiful. 

Let me stop and take a break before I actually cry .

[Zweistein]

36 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@Faceless

@Zweistein don't beat yourself down if you act unconsciously here and again because this is just a dream after all and we can't be lucid dreaming through out the entire experience, us being consumed by the story is part of the experience and love cannot reject that experience because it's simply a part of it. Instead just turn back and laugh at how it got you again and be aware of the intelligence behind that. Your enlightenment is already inevitable so there's no need to go hard on yourself. 

If you can stare at your reflection in the mirror and see that there's not really a you there, just the universe's machine observing itself then that would be great because you will begin to see that you and the universe are just one and the same thing - a movement in time. You are the universe commucating with us (the universe). And this event is of intelligence. I promise it is an awesome experience, kinda like realizing in a dream that everybody there is you and are happening in your head. It's truly amazing, I'm not even sure if I'm describing it effective enough because everything I'm saying here is just of great significance and just talking about it is making my eyes teary. It's honestly beautiful. 

Let me stop and take a break before I actually cry .

@Victor Mgazi What made you think that I beat myself down if I act unconsciously?

(What are you reflecting? ;-) If I were you (which I am, of course), I would read our texts again and replace every "You" with "I" or "We". I=you=we know it's unbelievable!